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  1. #10651
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by DanoT View Post
    Lithium batteries that are made for winter use will have a built in Battery Management System that includes a battery heater and it will shut itself down when it gets below a certain temp or state of charge.
    Battleborn is the only supplier that has a heat function ASFIK, and they're spendy per AH. The better solution is one of these little guys (https://a.co/d/8JqFuhV) and insulating your battery box a bit

    Also I should clarify that the above device needs to be hooked up to a little thermostat, set to activate at the appropriate temperature

  2. #10652
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    Quote Originally Posted by apex dave View Post
    Plus isn't lithium a problem charging below freezing?
    Yeah, I think so. Plus, what do you do when you drop your camper off in the backyard for a month and it's not plugged in? Seems like a pain in the ass. I do fine with one decent lead acid battery and some generator time. Yeah, the usable amp hours is way less, as is the number of cycles, but haven't yet figured out a lithium solution for my personal use. Maybe a Jackery that you could take inside when not using the camper?

  3. #10653
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    On a genuine ol' fashioned authentic steam powered aereoplane
    Posts
    16,804
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Battleborn is the only supplier that has a heat function ASFIK, and they're spendy per AH. The better solution is one of these little guys (https://a.co/d/8JqFuhV) and insulating your battery box a bit

    Also I should clarify that the above device needs to be hooked up to a little thermostat, set to activate at the appropriate temperature
    Any idea what kind of draw this little fan takes?

    I'm just using a little Paxcess 330w battery. Runs my diesel heater for 12 hours and uses about 35% of the battery. I did experience the battery not wanting to turn on the other evening after hunting all day and then having to run the truck for about 30 minutes with the battery pack near the foot vent to heat it up a little. Not ideal really.

  4. #10654
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Meiss Meadows
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    2,031
    Do not forget that your RV is your 2nd home. It qualifies for the Solar Tax Credit.
    When I installed the system the credit basically paid for one of the heated BattleBorns.

  5. #10655
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    277
    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardianws 7 amps View Post
    Any idea what kind of draw this little fan takes?
    .
    100 watts and 12 volts = more than 8 amps. If your furnace blower is like mine it draws 7 amps so the little fan is not an option unless you are plugged in.

  6. #10656
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Idaho
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    1,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead View Post
    Yeah, I think so. Plus, what do you do when you drop your camper off in the backyard for a month and it's not plugged in? Seems like a pain in the ass. I do fine with one decent lead acid battery and some generator time. Yeah, the usable amp hours is way less, as is the number of cycles, but haven't yet figured out a lithium solution for my personal use. Maybe a Jackery that you could take inside when not using the camper?

    They're fine unattended as long as there is no parasitic draw. A guy with your ability should be able to cobble together your own Li system out of readily available components for much less than battleborn, etc.

    The question is are you going to bring the generator no matter what type of batteries? If yes, forget Li.

  7. #10657
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Sun Peaks Resort
    Posts
    865
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Battleborn is the only supplier that has a heat function ASFIK, and they're spendy per AH. The better solution is one of these little guys (https://a.co/d/8JqFuhV) and insulating your battery box a bit

    Also I should clarify that the above device needs to be hooked up to a little thermostat, set to activate at the appropriate temperature
    I am not a fan of 12v heaters mostly due to too low heat and and poor longevity.

    I prefer a 110volt heater like this that has 170watt and 250watt options, but unfortunately no thermostat:

    https://www.honeywellstore.com/store...100-series.htm

  8. #10658
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    13,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    They're fine unattended as long as there is no parasitic draw. A guy with your ability should be able to cobble together your own Li system out of readily available components for much less than battleborn, etc.

    The question is are you going to bring the generator no matter what type of batteries? If yes, forget Li.
    Lithium is super intriguing for sure. With lead acid only having 50% usable capacity it is annoying, only caveat would be winter, which is certainly not insurmountable issue. I am a voltage nerd though, I hate when my batteries get “low”…so you pegged my personality. Ha!

  9. #10659
    Join Date
    Dec 2020
    Location
    Idaho
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    1,725
    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead View Post
    Lithium is super intriguing for sure. With lead acid only having 50% usable capacity it is annoying, only caveat would be winter, which is certainly not insurmountable issue. I am a voltage nerd though, I hate when my batteries get “low”…so you pegged my personality. Ha!
    If/when you get a new camper I guarantee it'll be full of lithium or it's current equivalent. Lead acid has sucked for so long.

    The Li batts in a compartment adjacent to heated space and the batt systems heater blanket keep it operable at winter temps. Combine the batteries, w a bit of solar, and a dc/dc converter and you have 2 robust systems to keep things charged. Obviously those are weather and fuel dependent, but usually you'll have at least 1 option to recharge, which means generator stays home.

  10. #10660
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by apex dave View Post
    100 watts and 12 volts = more than 8 amps. If your furnace blower is like mine it draws 7 amps so the little fan is not an option unless you are plugged in.
    A) Depends on your battery capacity

    B) This assumes continuous duty cycle which if located in your cab area shouldn't be the case.

    The alternative are those heating pads people use to keep apiaries viable in winter, but they would heat cells unevenly and I got worried that might lead to premature failure: https://a.co/d/6eBRB5A

  11. #10661
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Keep Tacoma Feared
    Posts
    5,266
    Quote Originally Posted by Trackhead View Post
    Plus, what do you do when you drop your camper off in the backyard for a month and it's not plugged in?
    This is what solar is for. Solar will have no problem keeping your batteries fully charged as the vehicle sits idle unplugged. It can even keep your lead acid house battery fully charged as well (which like to be fully charged, unlike li which can sit half charged). Lithium can be used in cold weather, and sit idle in cold weather, just can't be charged (in temps below freezing). But lots of times your rig will get warm enough in the day for solar to kick in the charging (which your battery monitor with thermometer regulates). Then shuts off when temp drops down.

  12. #10662
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    13,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner View Post
    If/when you get a new camper I guarantee it'll be full of lithium or it's current equivalent. Lead acid has sucked for so long.

    The Li batts in a compartment adjacent to heated space and the batt systems heater blanket keep it operable at winter temps. Combine the batteries, w a bit of solar, and a dc/dc converter and you have 2 robust systems to keep things charged. Obviously those are weather and fuel dependent, but usually you'll have at least 1 option to recharge, which means generator stays home.
    New camper…..you will soon see what I’ve been working on last three months in my garage. Yeah will likely go lithium.

  13. #10663
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    13,501
    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    This is what solar is for. Solar will have no problem keeping your batteries fully charged as the vehicle sits idle unplugged. It can even keep your lead acid house battery fully charged as well (which like to be fully charged, unlike li which can sit half charged). Lithium can be used in cold weather, and sit idle in cold weather, just can't be charged (in temps below freezing). But lots of times your rig will get warm enough in the day for solar to kick in the charging (which your battery monitor with thermometer regulates). Then shuts off when temp drops down.
    True, I’ve had a roof full of solar on an RV I owned decades ago. But after 7 years in Coastal AK we ditched solar, totally useless up there.

  14. #10664
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Access to Granlibakken
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    11,184
    Altasnob is correct. My 200 amp hrs of Li (Battleborn) has been easy to manage here in Tahoe (occasional mornings below 0 F, and plenty of travel where the lows are around 0 and highs never reach 30 F. The interior of the van is 50-65 F while we are in it, and it warms up quickly from say 40 F (after a day of skiing) so in practice the lithiums are generally above 32 F at all times on a road trip and therefore get charged by any bit of sun or driving (DC to DC victron). Besides a big diesel air/water heater, we have 700 W microwave and espresso machine and fridge in regular use…absolutely no need for a generator on our skiing road trips. 200 amp hr lithium is like having around 380 amp hr AGM, remember.

    When the van is parked and unused during a cold cycle, I have a heater wrap plugged into an AC extension cord. For me this is superior to the self heating DC wraps that Battleborn offered me at a discount. I posted earlier in this thread about the heater wrap…just connect it to a temp triggered AC adapter (farmers etc use these all the time). I can dig up those links again if needed.

  15. #10665
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    13,501
    ^^^good real world beta, thx.

  16. #10666
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1,218
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    When the van is parked and unused during a cold cycle, I have a heater wrap plugged into an AC extension cord. For me this is superior to the self heating DC wraps that Battleborn offered me at a discount. I posted earlier in this thread about the heater wrap…just connect it to a temp triggered AC adapter (farmers etc use these all the time). I can dig up those links again if needed.
    What do you do on startup? For example, coming back after a ski day, or starting out first thing in the morning if temps are, say, in the teens? Sure, the cabin will warm within 15 to 20 minutes, but how do you stop the DC to DC charger from trying to push charge into dead cold batteries? This is the part I haven't figured out...

  17. #10667
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,953
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    Battleborn is the only supplier that has a heat function ASFIK, and they're spendy per AH. The better solution is one of these little guys (https://a.co/d/8JqFuhV) and insulating your battery box a bit

    Also I should clarify that the above device needs to be hooked up to a little thermostat, set to activate at the appropriate temperature
    Dakota Lithium also has a heated battery.

    135Ah with internal heating element for $1100.
    https://dakotalithium.com/product/dl...nce-golf-cart/

  18. #10668
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
    Posts
    4,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Huskydoc View Post
    What do you do on startup? For example, coming back after a ski day, or starting out first thing in the morning if temps are, say, in the teens? Sure, the cabin will warm within 15 to 20 minutes, but how do you stop the DC to DC charger from trying to push charge into dead cold batteries? This is the part I haven't figured out...
    Don’t the lithium batteries have a protection circuit when they’re too cold to take a charge?

    My opinion is that if you can’t keep them in conditioned space lead acid or agm is the way to go. No sense in increasing price and complexity if they’re going to be frozen.

    $1100 for fewer amps than 2x GC6v batteries is a joke.

  19. #10669
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Yup any decent quality Li battery has internal protection to ensure it ain’t getting charged when it’s too cold.

    Look I get the hesitancy—in 2015 when I did my build, I stayed with lead acid…I wanted the market to mature. Which it has. It’s been a game changer for me, since I do a lot of extended winter trips and the last thing I want to lug around in or on my relatively compact van is a generator.

  20. #10670
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    ^ my post about the $20 thermostat + heater wrap i occasionally plug in at home may not have been clear. Generally I just park it and forget it, since midday in Tahoe there’s a good chance the batteries will be above 32F and will get a bit of charge from my 200 watt panels. But if we’re in a long cold stormy period, or if I know I’m taking a short trip the next day, I plug in those heater wraps to ensure the batteries get charged the moment I start driving and / or we get a bit of sun.

  21. #10671
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    311
    200ah of lithium gets you 6 days of pow skiing without a recharge in a storm with all the accoutrements.

  22. #10672
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Was UT, AK, now MT
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    13,501
    Quote Originally Posted by Backward_Banana View Post
    200ah of lithium gets you 6 days of pow skiing without a recharge in a storm with all the accoutrements.
    Yeah but I get to exercise my right arm yanking on a …….. generator starter.

  23. #10673
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    People's Republic of OB
    Posts
    4,407
    Renogy has a self heating Li battery as well, now $700. https://www.renogy.com/12v-100ah-sma...ting-function/

    That's the one I bought for my truck along with their DC-DC charger with MPPT controller.

    Not the highest end product but has worked great for me. When I'm on trips the battery seldom drops below 85% with fridge, lights, device charging.

  24. #10674
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    cordova,AK
    Posts
    3,688
    I bought the Battleborn that self heats. No issues in teen temps with the battery in an unheated slide in. Half the weight twice the usable storage. Lifted it out a couple of times installing it and realized money well spent.
    off your knees Louie

  25. #10675
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Tahoe-ish
    Posts
    3,141
    My Ampere Time 200ah battery has neither temp sensor or heating, but it's inside of the RV space. For $700 I knew what I was getting. I have relied on my Victron solar controller's battery sensor to turn off charging when it's cold, but this thread reminded me that the DC-DC charger might inadvertently send some juice into it while it's still cold at the start of a trip. I'll add a switch to prevent that.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

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