Its Baaaack: EC roll call version 4.0(beta)

[mtl_ripper]

Thanks for that RolnThunder. DANGER beta is welcome, I was up in Quebec City area and all there was was faceted snow, glad to not have even ventured into avy terrain. Gottam depth whore, curse of the shallow 'pack. Be safe kidz.

[Gman]

what part of NH were you in? Debating heading up that way this coming week.

[RolnThunder]

what part of NH were you in? Debating heading up that way this coming week.

We were out in the Pemi Wilderness. As a generalization between what we found and what rdennhs found, I would think quite a few of the slides outside of the forecasted Mt. Washington area are pretty sketchy and best avoided. Coverage is a little less than desirable on a lot of the slides as well. In general (between the two reports), the snow collapsed on west, south and north facing slopes. I thought for sure avy danger on Washington would have been through the roof when we got back, and was shocked to find it set at low. The snowpack on Washington must be pretty different (at least in the forecasted ravines). That storm made for some really interesting conditions throughout the Whites. Which areas were you considering? I wish I had more to share but our results are pretty localized. You will have to dig down and see whats below. At least any day on snow is better than a day at work (or home in most cases).

[rdennhs]

Nice write-up ROLN, I was embarrased to mention that I went up there today and ended up turning around in the Tram lot..most of the snow that we had seen earlier in the week had melted away. So depressing but whatever, it'll come back (slash i'm leaving for the Bozone Tuesday for two weeks so it's not exactly bothering me anymore)

ROLN -- good reminder of being safe out there, thanks bro

[RolnThunder]

On a similar note, if I made a snowpack condition/weather thread in the snow conditions and weather section, would anyone use it and help keep it updated? The stuff I contribute would largely focus on NH outside of the Mt. Washington area. We could do multiple states or just focus on one per thread. I figured it might be a little more useful in keeping this thread focused on stoke and keep the other purely on stability and weather. I know I'd find it useful given that I'm stuck 6 hours from the snow I like to ski most of the year.

Edit:

Nice write-up ROLN, I was embarrased to mention that I went up there today and ended up turning around in the Tram lot..most of the snow that we had seen earlier in the week had melted away. So depressing but whatever, it'll come back (slash i'm leaving for the Bozone Tuesday for two weeks so it's not exactly bothering me anymore)

ROLN -- good reminder of being safe out there, thanks bro

No problem bud. We will have to go touring together sometime soon.

[mtl_ripper]

Roln, that is an excellent idea.

FWIW I have not taken CSA Level 1 yet (only a weekend awareness level course and years of book reading and poking around in the snow) and cannot make observations nor prepare profiles in the standardized manner. Not sure of what format would be needed, but if simple, rough observations can also be useful contrib's to such a thread, that is at least better than nothing (which in the East is what we usually have, right?!). Some places are a long way to go without being able to form some kind of a rough idea of what conditions in the snow might be like, eh.

Rambling here; the rain has me distracted. Hm.

edit just saw this film in imax and then re-watched the 1982 one, the nerd in me is thrilled.

[RolnThunder]

Roln, that is an excellent idea.

FWIW I have not taken CSA Level 1 yet (only a weekend awareness level course and years of book reading and poking around in the snow) and cannot make observations nor prepare profiles in the standardized manner. Not sure of what format would be needed, but if simple, rough observations can also be useful contrib's to such a thread, that is at least better than nothing (which in the East is what we usually have, right?!). Some places are a long way to go without being able to form some kind of a rough idea of what conditions in the snow might be like, eh.

No worries on the technicality of reports. I'm relatively new to this anyways. Most of my knowledge comes from reading and re-reading books and digging around. I don't know...I really enjoy digging and playing around in snowpits. Must have done 12 of them yesterday since we couldn't ski anything anyways. I just want everyone to be able to keep each other updated on conditions so we can all make good calls in the bc and plan ahead of time.

Snowpack/Conditions thread is here: [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3119157#post3119157"]NH Snowpack/Weather Discussion - Teton Gravity Research Forums[/ame]

[gpcharles]

The snowpack on Washington must be pretty different (at least in the forecasted ravines). That storm made for some really interesting conditions throughout the Whites.

This is a great point. Open slides in both NH and NY are notorious for responding poorly to a big dump on a mostly non-existent snowpack. This one was surely an example.

Somehow these slides (my suspicion is heat from the bedrock/soil not getting along with the pretty cold and copious snowfall) got some righteous depth hoar going. Compare this to the forecast avalanche paths that already had a snowpack, and I believe the snow fell without creating a huge temperature gradient. Combine that with the fact that almost anything that could slide had probably already slid and you get the low ratings in the ravines.

Interestingly enough, in our outing on Friday, we found either a.) no snow because things had slid to the ground, or b.) so much strong wind loaded snow that there was sufficient bridging.

As for the idea of a snowpack thread, I'm personally hesitant to do so. Although on the surface I think it sounds like it might be a convenience to help people plan where to go to avoid avalanche danger, I think in reality since most of us are not avalanche professionals we're more likely to build up small circles of groupthink and perhaps overconfident notions.

I'd personally prefer to let slope analysis be left to when folks are on the slopes. It's not that hard, and should never be skipped.

That said, I think reports like Zach's are great not so much because the enable trip-planning, but more because they reinforce the message that we all need to be avalanche smart if we're going to be on open backcountry terrain. So, kudos to Zach for evangelizing avalanche education.

That said, of course if you want to write stuff, I can't stop you.

[RolnThunder]

This is a great point. Open slides in both NH and NY are notorious for responding poorly to a big dump on a mostly non-existent snowpack. This one was surely an example.

Somehow these slides (my suspicion is heat from the bedrock/soil not getting along with the pretty cold and copious snowfall) got some righteous depth hoar going. Compare this to the foretasted avalanche paths already had a snowpack, and I believe the snow fell without creating a huge temperature gradient. Combine that with the fact that almost anything that could slide had probably already slid and you get the low ratings in the ravines.

Interestingly enough, in our outing on Friday, we found either a.) no snow because things had slid to the ground, or b.) so much strong wind loaded snow that there was sufficient bridging.

As for the idea of a snowpack thread, I'm personally hesitant to do so. Although on the surface I think it sounds like it might be a convenience to help people plan where to go to avoid avalanche danger, I think in reality since most of us are not avalanche professionals we're more likely to build up small circles of groupthink and perhaps overconfident notions.

I'd personally prefer to let slope analysis be left to when folks are on the slopes. It's not that hard, and should never be skipped.

That said, I think reports like Zach's are great not so much because the enable trip-planning, but more because they reinforce the message that we all need to be avalanche smart if we're going to be on open backcountry terrain. So, kudos to Zach for evangelizing avalanche education.

That said, of course if you want to write stuff, I can't stop you.

Nice report Greg! And good input on the NH snowpack thread. I didn't really think about it that way. I created it for the purpose of documenting which layers are in the snowpack and approximately where, not for deeming it safe or not. I know quite a few of us drive a pretty considerable distance to ski. For instance, if I knew that depth hoar/faceted snow layer had been there two days ago, I definitely would have passed on the drive over there. Taking your point into account, I'll throw up a disclaimer in that thread (already made it like an hour before your post). If it seems like its headed for the groupthink issue, I'll kill the thread without hesitation. The last thing I want is for more people to get hurt fron interpreting things the wrong way.

[gpcharles]

Nice report Greg! And good input on the NH snowpack thread. I didn't really think about it that way. I created it for the purpose of documenting which layers are in the snowpack and approximately where, not for deeming it safe or not. I know quite a few of us drive a pretty considerable distance to ski. For instance, if I knew that depth hoar/faceted snow layer had been there two days ago, I definitely would have passed on the drive over there. Taking your point into account, I'll throw up a disclaimer in that thread (already made it like an hour before your post). If it seems like its headed for the groupthink issue, I'll kill the thread without hesitation. The last thing I want is for more people to get hurt fron interpreting things the wrong way.

It's always a tough call on stuff like this Zach. Just my $.02...

both of our viewpoints are valid. both have possible logical endpoints in which someone is buried under tons of snow because of a lack of information... :/

[buttahflake]

personally i think he should 'shut up and ski'. snow pack reports and hoar frost in January. who gives a fuck. get on some GS skis and learn to Kharve. fucking poser bullshit from college kidz means nothing. find the front seat KUNTZ! i know Petrics and his krew can Bend 'em young buckz need to finish a turn before i buy their shit

[Gman]

We were out in the Pemi Wilderness. As a generalization between what we found and what rdennhs found, I would think quite a few of the slides outside of the forecasted Mt. Washington area are pretty sketchy and best avoided. Coverage is a little less than desirable on a lot of the slides as well. In general (between the two reports), the snow collapsed on west, south and north facing slopes. I thought for sure avy danger on Washington would have been through the roof when we got back, and was shocked to find it set at low. The snowpack on Washington must be pretty different (at least in the forecasted ravines). That storm made for some really interesting conditions throughout the Whites. Which areas were you considering? I wish I had more to share but our results are pretty localized. You will have to dig down and see whats below. At least any day on snow is better than a day at work (or home in most cases).

was thinking about heading to mt washington with a friend who skis it on a regular basis. may or may not happen.

[thin cover]

trying to ski walker or center ammo this early in the season and with all the windload/scouring we had seems like asking for trouble. I mean you can tell just by watching the weather that they needs to wait, with out having to drive all the way over there. i understand everyone is stoked to ski BC, but we have not been getting the snow or conditions for any of these lines you guys are talking about. BE CAREFUL USE COMMON SENSE, no one is going to think you are cooler cause you hit it in early jan rather then late feb.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Isothermic Snowpack Kids


Backdoor pic from 10:00 am today, looks like April 20th to me. Folks were snowmobiling off Bolton flats yesterday, looked like 6-8" there.

[rdennhs]

personally i think he should 'shut up and ski'. snow pack reports and hoar frost in January. who gives a fuck. get on some GS skis and learn to Kharve. fucking poser bullshit from college kidz means nothing. find the front seat KUNTZ! i know Petrics and his krew can Bend 'em young buckz need to finish a turn before i buy their shit

hmmmmm

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