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  1. #1376
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    345
    So got out on the Renegades for a quick rip yesterday.
    40cm's of fresh overnight, light density blower so not exactly trying conditions.
    Haven't really been chucking my meat much this season but hit a few 20ish footers yesterday and the tails popped me right back up from some backslaps which was nice.

    I have skied my Hoji's in pretty much any condition from glacier ice-melt freeze ice-windslab-80+cm in 24hrs and they do it all fairly well. The renegade just goes faster in the deep which i find allows you to have more fun in less steep pillowy terrain and the stiffness and width would perform excellent on big open faces and smaller steep terrain that you feel confident really blasting out of, for general couloir skiing and billygoating where you probably wont be pinning an entire line I feel the hoji's work just fine and are more nimble and can still shred very fast as is. I added the Renegades as a more specific quiver ski myself then a full time daily driver.
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  2. #1377
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    118
    Compared the new 184 with the old 186's today. Clearly, they are in the same family of skis, but with some differences to note. Overall, I think the new ski will be more fun in playful terrain and trees, while having more of a speed limit.

    1. Flex pattern is the largest difference. White room skis have a stiff flex throughout the whole ski, well into the tips and tails. The ibex renegades have much softer tips and tails (first and last 12"). Both feel very solid underfoot, and it is tough to gauge the difference.

    2. Tip rocker: white rooms on top, ibex bottom. Note the ~4cm difference in length between the 186 and 184 and increased tip splay.
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    3. Tail rocker: Ibex on top, white rooms bottom. Note huuuge tail splay increase.
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    Still debating how to mount these up. Leaning towards a lighter tech setup.

  3. #1378
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    28
    Thanks everyone for all the advice and insight on the Ren/Protest/Automatic Quiver debate! Man, people are awesome on here!
    Lots of great insight and points brought up regarding versatility, binding selection, and comparison to the Hojis.

    I think I'm going to keep the Protests and throw on some beefier bindings so they can become a powder weapon on those oh so special days at the resort. I'll probably bite the bullet and buy some Shifts or Tectons for the Rens with plans of running them as my main touring ski, (and potentially the one pair of skis I bring on hut trips or resort trips when space is limited.) The Automatics will remain in the quiver for their versatility. Lastly, I plan to keep an eye out for a Hoji or Raven for spring skiing conditions, including backcountry couloirs. (This is a lower priority at this point. I just want to get the Renegades and Protests dialled in and then I'm super set!
    I agree with the point about release reliability of PIN Bindings at the resort. While I love how my Kingpins ski, I do often think that Shifts or Tectons with their toe elasticity and release capability would offer some insurance against potential knee injuries. My next binding purchase will reflect this.

    Thanks also for the posts above regarding the experience on the new Rens and the flex and rocker comparison of the new 184s with the OG 186s.
    I'm super curious to hear an in-depth comparison of how the new Rens ski as compared with the OG Rens.

  4. #1379
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ellensburg
    Posts
    1,234
    Thanks for the writeup and photos. What was your observation on length? Do the 184 ibexes feel substantially shorter than the 186 owls? The rocker profile comparison makes me think the 191 ibex would be more comparable to the 186 owl.

    186 owl is a great ski but I'm finding I prefer it for bc days or any day where there a strong possibility of fresh tracks. I'm gravitating toward my 116c mind benders for most inbounds deep days because they are so much more fun in tracked out and packed snow.

    Sent from my BND-L24 using Tapatalk

  5. #1380
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    FR&CH
    Posts
    354
    I’m also curious to know how the new (20/21) 191 compares to the old heavy (13/14/15) 186. Judging by rocker profile, flex, weight, they may be similar, I mean, the new 191 shouldn’t be more demanding than the old 186 ?

  6. #1381
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    5,838

    4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

    I took a few runs on the new 191. Hard snow only: grippy groomers and skied out bumpy stuff... no new snow in a long time, so not a great test. Very similar feel to OG Rens. I didn’t back to back them and not ideal snow, but I’d say in those conditions they feel in between the 186 and 196 rens. Definitely some of the smoother feel of the 196, without feeling quite as unwieldly, and not quite as lightning quick across the fall line as the 186 (which can feel nervous, especially on harder snow). Generally, probably better behaved in those conditions than either the 196 or 186. Didn’t run into any particular speed limit as long as they were on edge but I wasn’t really trying, either.

    Needed similar technique as the OG rens, which is a pivot/carve kind of turn (not a scarve) while keeping the skis mostly underneath you. If I had to ski them all day it wouldn’t have made me sad, though I have fun with renegades on hardpack and many do not share that experience, so ymmv.
    focus.

  7. #1382
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by Mustonen View Post
    I took a few runs on the new 191. Hard snow only: grippy groomers and skied out bumpy stuff... no new snow in a long time, so not a great test. Very similar feel to OG Rens. I didn’t back to back them and not ideal snow, but I’d say in those conditions they feel in between the 186 and 196 rens. Definitely some of the smoother feel of the 196, without feeling quite as unwieldly, and not quite as lightning quick across the fall line as the 186 (which can feel nervous, especially on harder snow). Generally, probably better behaved in those conditions than either the 196 or 186. Didn’t run into any particular speed limit as long as they were on edge but I wasn’t really trying, either.

    Needed similar technique as the OG rens, which is a pivot/carve kind of turn (not a scarve) while keeping the skis mostly underneath you. If I had to ski them all day it wouldn’t have made me sad, though I have fun with renegades on hardpack and many do not share that experience, so ymmv.
    How long do the measure vs. the OG 186 rens?

  8. #1383
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntmanbo View Post
    I’m also curious to know how the new (20/21) 191 compares to the old heavy (13/14/15) 186. Judging by rocker profile, flex, weight, they may be similar, I mean, the new 191 shouldn’t be more demanding than the old 186 ?
    Your right. I had both.

    191s dedicated BC ski. 186s stiffer and sweet spot at higher speed.

    The sheer weight and guts of the new ones is unbelievable.

    I sold the 186s because I like the longer ones but still regret it a bit.

    Both incredible skis.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  9. #1384
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    71
    I saw a dude skiing in bounds today with the new Raven with TourLock. What a cool idea! Can I just drill a hole through my existing skis to copy that? Jk...unless

  10. #1385
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,923
    Quote Originally Posted by NathanL View Post
    I saw a dude skiing in bounds today with the new Raven with TourLock. What a cool idea! Can I just drill a hole through my existing skis to copy that? Jk...unless
    You probably could if you sealed it right, but might be more hassle than it's worth.

  11. #1386
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    118
    Would you say the 191 requires more input to ski/feel bigger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hughwindlip View Post
    Your right. I had both.

    191s dedicated BC ski. 186s stiffer and sweet spot at higher speed.

    The sheer weight and guts of the new ones is unbelievable.

    I sold the 186s because I like the longer ones but still regret it a bit.

    Both incredible skis.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  12. #1387
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    179
    I'd say less.

    But I was skiing it in blower pow at golden alpine holidays most of the time.

    Also skied a couple days at Whistler, K Horse and Cypress... I'd say it's less input than the older heavier 186 green black. Pretty close though.

    It's a lot lighter so that plays a big part. I have MTN Tech bindings brakeless on the 191 and had shifts on the 186 so that could make a difference.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  13. #1388
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    118
    Quote Originally Posted by Hughwindlip View Post
    I'd say less.

    But I was skiing it in blower pow at golden alpine holidays most of the time.

    Also skied a couple days at Whistler, K Horse and Cypress... I'd say it's less input than the older heavier 186 green black. Pretty close though.

    It's a lot lighter so that plays a big part. I have MTN Tech bindings brakeless on the 191 and had shifts on the 186 so that could make a difference.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk
    Ok thanks. Am coming off a set of 186's and have some 184's sitting here and debating on whether to bump up to the 191. Sounds like that might be the right call.

  14. #1389
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by tupp_ View Post
    Ok thanks. Am coming off a set of 186's and have some 184's sitting here and debating on whether to bump up to the 191. Sounds like that might be the right call.
    Go bigger seems right. More rocker in the tips, 191 feels like the right size coming off an ole 186.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  15. #1390
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    496
    Might be apples to oranges, but my lighter build 187 hojis definitely ski shorter than my 186 owl rens. Very similar feel, but more rocker on the newer models for sure.

  16. #1391
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    at work
    Posts
    1,398
    Wish they had a 191 Hoji, although it sounds like they may be tweaking the Hoji mold for next year, so who knows what will come out of the lab??
    "Not all who wander are lost"

  17. #1392
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by dub2 View Post
    Might be apples to oranges, but my lighter build 187 hojis definitely ski shorter than my 186 owl rens. Very similar feel, but more rocker on the newer models for sure.
    Noticed the same with my red white hojis vs pils. Similar trend with the Ren's maybe.

    Sent from my Pixel 5 using Tapatalk

  18. #1393
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    my own little world
    Posts
    5,838
    Quote Originally Posted by tupp_ View Post
    How long do the measure vs. the OG 186 rens?
    I can’t, for the life of me, find any of the measuring tapes in this house.

    But here are some pictures.


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    focus.

  19. #1394
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    BLDR CO
    Posts
    959
    ^^^ Funny, I just picked up a used pair of OG Rens (tele) for my brother... Same pic, 186 OG vs 191 new guys
    And of course they load sideways for some reason
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  20. #1395
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Squamish, BC
    Posts
    897
    Alright... can any bigger guys compare the old 196 to the new 191? thanks

  21. #1396
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    BC
    Posts
    1,923
    Quote Originally Posted by Judo Chop! View Post
    Alright... can any bigger guys compare the old 196 to the new 191? thanks
    It’s going to be way too small for you. It skis way smaller, feels the same as the 186. There is a lot more rocker and they are softer too

  22. #1397
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Posts
    11,698
    Quote Originally Posted by m104da View Post
    And of course they load sideways for some reason
    Not helpful cause we need to know how much taller they are. You have some sort of weird extremely fat and short version. Maybe a Hoji prototype gone wrong.

  23. #1398
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    BLDR CO
    Posts
    959
    ^^^new proto hoverboard versions... I'll try again, showing side-by-side to highlight rocker (new on left, OG on right)
    New Ren is def more tail rocker (last pic)
    New is more tip-wide rocker too, but really more tip splay at the end I'd say
    Tip to tail tape measure (just straight pull)...
    Old 186 = 184 cm
    New 191 = 189 cm
    New rens weighed in @ 2140
    Definitely lighter, softer, and more big bc ski. I'm putting inserts in so can run em w/ alpine and AT binders
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  24. #1399
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Boulder, CO
    Posts
    496
    If anyone is interested in a pair of 186 owl rens with wardens in outstanding condition and mounted for 305 BSL, PM me. Love them, but just changing my quiver around. Located in CO.

  25. #1400
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    118
    Thanks all for the photos! Great to see the realities here.

    Honestly, the 191 looks longer than expected! Anyone ski the 184 vs. the OG 186? Haven't heard that take yet...

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