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  1. #1651
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Wenatchee
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    13,996
    Quote Originally Posted by jski171 View Post
    Anyone find themselves in between 184s and 191s for touring on rens and have advice? Canít make up my mind. 191 would be a no brainer with alpine bindings but not sure Iíll want that on skin tracks. 5í11 180lbs for reference and I like to drive my tips.
    191s I have 196s


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  2. #1652
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    entrapped
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    2,359
    Quote Originally Posted by jski171 View Post
    Anyone find themselves in between 184s and 191s for touring on rens and have advice? Canít make up my mind. 191 would be a no brainer with alpine bindings but not sure Iíll want that on skin tracks. 5í11 180lbs for reference and I like to drive my tips.
    Up b to you...

    I have both 184 and 191. I'm 5^9" and would ideally have 187 or so. I don't get to ski them often since I live in the ice coast now so I would likely ski and like the 191 more of I loved somewhere with more snow and had more time. My guess is 191 for you.

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    No matter where you go, there you are. - BB

  3. #1653
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    entrapped
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavar View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts yíall



    Thatís really good to know! Sounds like pretty much what Iím looking forÖ

    When you say ice conditions, do you mean real east coast boilerplate, or the kind of firmed up groomers Whistler/western skiers call ice that is still edgable?

    Iím an ex racer and like to carve, but Iím okay if I canít really rip on boilerplate as we very rarely get it out here, mostly groomer days are pretty edgable always
    Boiler plate is a hard no. Unless you want to die. The contact patch is very short. The skis don't hookup until they have significant edge angle. Think dhf front tire no man's land secondary to lack of intermediate knobs.

    West coast 'icy' firm is doable but certainly not ideal. For example, groomed edgeable is good to go, but more firm not so great.

    Firm but easily edgeable is fine, but there are definitely better skis for firm. Like a cambered ski

    Another reference point:

    Living in Utah I was happy with inbounds quiver of ren 196 and dev 184. I wasn't a great skier.

    Living in Tahoe/NM I added bonafide because of the more than occasionally very firm snow with some ice. I wasn't a terrible skier.

    Living in the northeast I added gs, SL, and faction ct 1.0 because of the frickin ice. I almost never ski the rens or devs in the northeast unless there is a dump or the rare day that prior dump hasn't resulted in patches of uncovered fucked ice.

    Biggest complaint about the devs was the 184s ski short, but the 191s were destructive heavy and large. Unsure if sizing has changed?

    I left other skis in the quiver out of the discussion as they aren't as relevant to your question.

    Hope that helps.



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  4. #1654
    Join Date
    Dec 2022
    Posts
    17
    Thanks for the detailed reply!

    From what Iíve read it sounds like the new (2021) devs have been updated to have a less extreme rocker and thus much longer contact patch, thatís made for a much improved groomer performance. Theyíre a bit softer than in the past and come in a 186 now

    Thinking I might just need to try them and see if Iím okay with the level of firm performance, as it might be worth the sacrifice for my more frequent off-piste skiing

  5. #1655
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    entrapped
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavar View Post
    Thanks for the detailed reply!

    From what Iíve read it sounds like the new (2021) devs have been updated to have a less extreme rocker and thus much longer contact patch, thatís made for a much improved groomer performance. Theyíre a bit softer than in the past and come in a 186 now

    Thinking I might just need to try them and see if Iím okay with the level of firm performance, as it might be worth the sacrifice for my more frequent off-piste skiing
    Not sure softer is better for those skis. I'll be interested to hear how they ski.

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  6. #1656
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    845
    Mind boggling why they lightened the Devs when the hoji line is the bc line up. A sub 2000 gr charger? This was done a few years back tho, so old news

  7. #1657
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Posts
    1,277
    Quote Originally Posted by tang View Post
    Mind boggling why they lightened the Devs when the hoji line is the bc line up. A sub 2000 gr charger? This was done a few years back tho, so old news
    Cause the masses love light skis


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  8. #1658
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Location
    Grandma's Basement
    Posts
    1,131
    Quote Originally Posted by kc_7777 View Post
    FYIÖ.

    If you order this yearís Renegades without the 4-lock skinsÖ.they ship you Rens with the Hoji hole.

    Talked to 4FRNT and they confirmed this is the case. All Rens have the hole in the tail this year.

    Same for the Ravens.

    Apparently this years Hojis come both ways (with hole and without).

    I bot my Rens without skins as I planned to use them as an inbounds pow skis.

    I did ask and 4FRNT said I could buy some 4-lock skis for my Rens.

    First world problem and just an FYI. But weirdÖand not clear on the website.

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    That's pretty dope!

    Anyone that did that who is not planning on touring interested in hooking me up with a pair of 4-lock skins for my Rens?
    I think I need the 184s, since I'd be doing this on an older pair of 186s.
    "Poop is funny" - Frank Reynolds

    www.experiencedgear.net

  9. #1659
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,778

    4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

    Hmmm

    Note sure itís that dope?

    If you paid less for the non-skin Renegade version like I did, you get shipped renegades with the Hoji hole. But no skins.

    I was gonna put STHs on my Rens.

    May go Duke PTs and buy some skins now. Just cause the damn hole is there. And I have some Duke PTs.

    The hole makes no difference when skiing. But itís there. And people will be like WTF did you put alpine binders on a ski with a Hoji hole?

    Super first world problem I know.

    I guess itís nice that 4FRNT offered to sell me some skins after the fact when I questioned them. But itís not that dope.

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    Last edited by kc_7777; 09-28-2023 at 09:46 AM.
    _________________________________________________
    I love big dumps.

  10. #1660
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Land of the Long Flat Vowel
    Posts
    1,064
    Haven't skied a pair Renegades since the original wood sidewall ones. (Stiff, planky, but fun where I could let them run, I thought.)

    How do the latest ones compare to Protests?

  11. #1661
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ellensburg
    Posts
    1,063
    There's no Devestator thread, but I'm thinking all the real ones are subscribed to this one.

    4frnt is dropping 40 pairs of a 194 Devestator tomorrow @ 11am MST. I got all excited thinking it was the old layup, specs appear to be a stretched version of the current layup:

  12. #1662
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Location
    Maple Falls, WA
    Posts
    566
    yup. what's the ski equivalent of "there's not replacement for displacement?"

    "you can't replace the absolute boat anchors my old 194cms are" doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

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  13. #1663
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    jack's hole
    Posts
    11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brasso View Post
    yup. what's the ski equivalent of "there's not replacement for displacement?"

    "you can't replace the absolute boat anchors my old 194cms are" doesn't quite roll off the tongue.

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk
    Don't replace em! but i think new dev in 194 will be a pretty killer weapon around the resort too

  14. #1664
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,778

    4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

    Family pic. For science.

    All three 4FRNTs are 184cm and are mounted at recommended mount point (eg dimple on ski).

    Ski strap is tightened at mount point in second pic.

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    Last edited by kc_7777; 10-21-2023 at 10:52 PM.
    _________________________________________________
    I love big dumps.

  15. #1665
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    Ellensburg
    Posts
    1,063
    Very nice, thanks for the pics. Rocker profiles all look so dialed. The ren profile has changed so much since v1--I'd love to try the latest. The OG ren doesn't have a ton of tip surface area (just 135mm width at the tip, for comparison OG dev tips are 136mm) and has less tip splay. I bet that new rocker profile works a lot better in deep snow and at speeds below mach looney.

  16. #1666
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    2,855
    Quote Originally Posted by tang View Post
    Quick update on the new 191 Rens... I did de-tune them (both tips and tails) and it helped alot. Didn't hook, much easier to bring them around and also throw em sideways. Skied them hard in soft but cut-up steeps, gullies and moguls at A Basin and they performed admirably. Given the more width and more shovel, they don't slash as quick as the EHP. I have an AK trip in April and think the Rens will be perfect - maneuverable enough for entrances, and then perfect for big open lines. But my home terrain is more steep tight trees, and this is where I feel the Protest may hold the edge.
    This most likely ends with me just +1 on the quiver!
    Anyone have more experience or feedback on newer 191 Rens versus Protests? I have 187s for reference. Use would be touring with a pin binding.
    sproing!

  17. #1667
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Alta
    Posts
    2,738

    4FRNT Renegade ~ Hand built in SLC.

    Quote Originally Posted by waveshello View Post
    Very nice, thanks for the pics. Rocker profiles all look so dialed. The ren profile has changed so much since v1--I'd love to try the latest. The OG ren doesn't have a ton of tip surface area (just 135mm width at the tip, for comparison OG dev tips are 136mm) and has less tip splay. I bet that new rocker profile works a lot better in deep snow and at speeds below mach looney.
    As a super devoted disciple of white room renegades. I must say that the new profile of the renegade looks significantly more friendly to all around skiing. Where as Iíve always described the the OG renegades as light sabers in pow, they to be skied at speed and down the fall line. The new ski looks much more deep pow, maybe turned to 10 not to 11, friendly. Iíd be very curious to give them a try, but Iím sitting on 3 unmounted OG rens that will probably last me until my legs canít ski that fast anymore. Even the raven looks more rockered than my 1st gen pair of 184s.


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  18. #1668
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Posts
    17
    Took the Renegades for a test ride due to unreasonably good October conditions yesterday.

    Felt very similar to the Ravens from the very first turns. They required a bit more input, but were also bit more calm on the tracked out lower section. Lack of any boot drag was the biggest new sensation! They did feel slightly hooky in the rocky crusty moguls down from the moraine. The legs were very empty after a 1700m+ vert day though, but I'm thinking of maybe some more de-tuning for the tails.

    How far have you gone with the de-tuning, it's a bit difficult to estimate the contact points with this much rocker?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZQ4Tt2R28

  19. #1669
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    103
    1700 vert in Oct is solid man, good job!

  20. #1670
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Middle of Norway.
    Posts
    2,631
    Quote Originally Posted by OttoP View Post
    Took the Renegades for a test ride due to unreasonably good October conditions yesterday.

    Felt very similar to the Ravens from the very first turns. They required a bit more input, but were also bit more calm on the tracked out lower section. Lack of any boot drag was the biggest new sensation! They did feel slightly hooky in the rocky crusty moguls down from the moraine. The legs were very empty after a 1700m+ vert day though, but I'm thinking of maybe some more de-tuning for the tails.

    How far have you gone with the de-tuning, it's a bit difficult to estimate the contact points with this much rocker?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtZQ4Tt2R28
    Pent.

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