Why Do the UK, AUS, & SoCal Produce Great Downhillers?

[Steven S. Dallas]

there seem to be a disproportionate number of Southern Californians on America's current World Championship roster.

How many are native and how many just moved there to train and be near the epicenter of action sports marketing? These rosters usually list current residence- to use examples from other sports, better than half of the US athletes at IFSA events are listed as from NorCal or Utah, but many just moved to those spots to ski [/tyrone]; similarly, I'm pretty sure marathoner Meb Keflezighi isn't "from" Mammoth Lakes.

You'd think every pro vert skater is from Carlsbad, but they just moved there to poach Tony Hawk's yard and to be closer to Quiksilver/Volcom/Red Bull etc.

[toast2266]

I agree that it has a lot to do with year round riding. I remember going to sea otter all pasty white and having barely ridden a bike in months, whereas all the socal kids had never stopped riding and clearly didn't have the early season kinks to work out.

[AKbruin]

How many are native and how many just moved there to train and be near the epicenter of action sports marketing? These rosters usually list current residence- to use examples from other sports, better than half of the US athletes at IFSA events are listed as from NorCal or Utah, but many just moved to those spots to ski [/tyrone]; similarly, I'm pretty sure marathoner Meb Keflezighi isn't "from" Mammoth Lakes.

You'd think every pro vert skater is from Carlsbad, but they just moved there to poach Tony Hawk's yard and to be closer to Quiksilver/Volcom/Red Bull etc.

I don't know. I'm pretty sure that Gwin, Lopes, Strait, and Eric Carter are legitimately from SoCal. Still, I'm not sure how relevant "action sports marketing" is to DH racers or whether it'd be a sufficient incentive to move to SoCal. I bet only the most elite WC racers make any reasonable money, and even those folks don't exactly make it into Bob Sugar's office.

[Schnappi]

Surely this sums up the UK success:

Are you gonna sit in some poxy office with a cunt for a boss telling you what to do as you count your pennies trying to make ends meet in a country that's sinking into strikes and wars and at the end of the day you go home to your cosy little flat in 'nowheresville' and pull your IKEA curtains shut to hide from the big bad world and pretend it's not happening? Or are you gonna stand up and be counted, make a difference and feel the rush? Just for once say "fuck it". I'm coiled up like a spring and I'm ready to burst and wanking ain't doing it anymore.

[kevin267]

in BC we suck because kids just do dirt jumps and stunts

[COUSINELVIS]

u aint from around here are ya AKBRUIN?

southern california is alot bigger than dt la and san diego, theres some beastly mountains down there that are steep loose and tech as it gets.

[Ripzalot]

UK: ...and I don't think of the UK as a place where people are (as a whole) 'reckless' or willing to roll the dice a lot.

'free' healthcare?

[AKbruin]

u aint from around here are ya AKBRUIN?

southern california is alot bigger than dt la and san diego, theres some beastly mountains down there that are steep loose and tech as it gets.

Er, my username should give you some hint that I do know at least a little about SoCal.

But, anyhow, I think you are misconstruing what I wrote, which was this:

But having large mountains and great resorts is obviously not a prerequisite.

I didn't write that SoCal DH riding is shitty or unchallenging. And I concede that there are some large mountains, although I'm not sure that they are all that convenient to the major SoCal population centers.

But there's no disputing that SoCal does not have a great DH resort. (Big Bear might have been at one time.) Of course, I think the problem with my underlying assumption is the expectation that great DH'ers are more likely to come from places with rad lift-served DH. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[bngofast]

Colorado is sending three Juniors to Worlds, not to mention that Gwinny was riding here all winter, along with Sik Mik. BangerT and Joey Schusler are from CO too. I can tell you that none of them train on sidewalks.

I didn't read the whole thread... but thank you for saying this. The Front Range/Fraser Valley has to have more DH trails per capita than most anywhere at the moment. And it's starting to show with the talent that's being produced, and the talent that's hanging around here.

[Dhelihiker]

I was told by an ex-world cup racer that the only way to get into the WC is to have 20+ points from a UCI event. I think there is 2 or 3 in the US, 1-2 in SA and the other 20 are in AUS or the EU. So for a up and comer like Silvestri to travel to these places to get the points just to enter the qualifier for a WC event can be big bucks. You add in a crash or two and you could be doing 5-6 trips at $2-4000 each just to get a shot at qualifying, and thats a whole other story

[kidwoo]

I didn't read the whole thread... but thank you for saying this. The Front Range/Fraser Valley has to have more DH trails per capita than most anywhere at the moment. And it's starting to show with the talent that's being produced, and the talent that's hanging around here.

I don't know....that whole vancouver to pemberton corridor ain't exactly lacking.... I obviously don't know everything on the front range but the density of dh riding around that super southwest area of BC is nuts.


Besides....gwinn is only there because of yeti (before you flip out that was a joke. CO is killing it on the dh scene these days)

[shirk]

The answer is club racing. Multiple weekly opportunities to race is what does it. Same thing for why all the top skiers comes from the east coast. It's bred a culture of racing.

How else to you have fun on crappy courses? You set up timing and race that crap.

[AKbruin]

I don't know....that whole vancouver to pemberton corridor ain't exactly lacking.... I obviously don't know everything on the front range but the density of dh riding around that super southwest area of BC is nuts.

I think it's pretty impressive that the Bay Area has turned out folks like Myles Rockwell and Curtis Keene considering that there are about about 1.5 local DH trails for like 7 million people.

[AKbruin]

The answer is club racing. Multiple weekly opportunities to race is what does it. Same thing for why all the top skiers comes from the east coast. It's bred a culture of racing.

How else to you have fun on crappy courses? You set up timing and race that crap.

Makes sense. What is "club racing" exactly though? Are we just talking about local race teams participating in local races? Or is it something more like recreational DH leagues similar to youth soccer/baseball leagues?

[kidwoo]

How else to you have fun on crappy courses?

Get out a shovel and make the world a better place.


Racing makes you buy goofy looking clothes and walk out in public looking like a teletubby. In the absence of real riding, this, sadly........is sometimes the only viable option.

[XXX-er]

moreland and smith grew up riding what were basicly cut the banks into the river valley around PG ,the pidherny trails went right into their backyrds but this did not make for a lot of vertical & becasue of the weather they could only ride 9 months of the year

there were lots of kids riding building & racing in PG and a few races every year but when school was done they all headed for whistler

I think its having a local scene , a bike club with shops & people who put on races ,

[shirk]

Makes sense. What is "club racing" exactly though? Are we just talking about local race teams participating in local races? Or is it something more like recreational DH leagues similar to youth soccer/baseball leagues?

As it was explained to me about the UK.

Each local area has a club or two, and each have their own "track" that they maintain and train on. Due to access issues if you want to ride anything other than xc you likely need to be part of the club. The club has usually secured use of some private land to build the track.

There are many inner club races, and then the club also hosts races as part of a regional series, add in the national series for the bigger clubs and tracks, plus invitational club vs club racing.

So essentially the only way to get your gravity fix is to race. And more racing breeds faster racers.

The track need not be world class to get fast racers, they need to have just enough steep tech bits to build that skill, then make em flat and pedal with lots of corners for the rest.

Much of the UK riders that got super interested in freeride came over here to BC as that is what we have here, everyone else in the gravity scene stuck it out racing.

[sofa king slow]

Besides....gwinn is only there because of yeti

Well, Yeti and a female. It is incredible though that Yeti manages to design WC race bikes in the land of sidewalks.

BC is just generally ridiculous.

[kidwoo]

Well, Yeti and a female. It is incredible though that Yeti manages to design WC race bikes in the land of sidewalks.

BC is just generally ridiculous.

No that's actually what he calls his girlfriend. 'Yeti'

Made the sponsorship decision that much easier.















I'm so getting my ass kicked next time I run into that guy.

[sofa king slow]

When he told me he railed his Yeti so hard the rear end broke loose he didn't mean the bike?

[shirk]

Here I thought the chicks in CO were Wookies not Yetis.

[kidwoo]

That makey some sense now don't it?

[AKbruin]

Get out a shovel and make the world a better place.


Racing makes you buy goofy looking clothes and walk out in public looking like a teletubby. In the absence of real riding, this, sadly........is sometimes the only viable option.

Shovel snob.

(Admittedly, it is sometimes difficult to find DH gear without ridiculous color schemes, flaming skulls, epileptic graphics, etc. Thanks, trashy moto influence.)

As it was explained to me about the UK.

Each local area has a club or two, and each have their own "track" that they maintain and train on. Due to access issues if you want to ride anything other than xc you likely need to be part of the club. The club has usually secured use of some private land to build the track.

There are many inner club races, and then the club also hosts races as part of a regional series, add in the national series for the bigger clubs and tracks, plus invitational club vs club racing.

So essentially the only way to get your gravity fix is to race. And more racing breeds faster racers.

The track need not be world class to get fast racers, they need to have just enough steep tech bits to build that skill, then make em flat and pedal with lots of corners for the rest.

Much of the UK riders that got super interested in freeride came over here to BC as that is what we have here, everyone else in the gravity scene stuck it out racing.

Thanks, man. That's pretty interesting.

[creaky fossil]

I don't think a lack of lift-served DH runs is a limiting factor. That's another one of those "blame the gear" perspectives. If you want to practice DH skills, you can do that without a ski hill or a lift. Very easily. Given that most races run from 1 minute to 5 minutes, obviously you don't need a lot of vertical.

I think being able to ride year-round is a big factor just for practical reasons. More saddle time = more comfort on the bike. More comfort on the bike = more relaxed in sketchy situations. More relaxed in sketchy situations = faster descending.

Shirk's conclusion on club racing is a legitimate point. Lots of riders are hairball but can't race for shit. Racing is its own world. To be a good racer you have to race.

Aaron Gwin has said in interviews that he raced BMX for many years, then went to moto, and now is doing DH. I'd say that sequence is pretty logical for making a good DH racer. BMX = skills. Moto = strength/finesse, comfort with speed + big features. There's some absurd mythology about Aaron Gwin riding MTBs for only like 1.5 years... given his extensive background racing BMX, I'd say he's been riding bicycles for a good part of his life.

In the end, going fast as a DHer comes down to these things:

1) bike handling skill
2) comfort with speed
3) comfort with big features or sketchiness
4) racing strategy - line choice, holding speed
5) fitness for the particular discipline (DH vs XC, for example)

I think that items (2) and (3) can be replaced with a certain level of apathy toward one's own injuries, but only for a limited time. Injuries pile up and eventually can make you less competitive... they can limit your physical abilities, and can fuck with your confidence.

One thing the UK racers seem to have as an advantage is that they also race and train in slippery conditions, whereas the SoCal people don't get that chance.

As to Canada -- I think Canadians are a bit less competitive, culturally speaking, than Americans. Americans are fucked up. So many of us see most every waking moment as some form of competition with other Americans. People compete for parking lot spots, they cut in front of each other at grocery checkouts, they jump in front of each other at bakery counters, etc. It's pretty sad. I think American culture is its own enemy and if anyone wanted to know why we don't produce a lot of top World Cup DH racers, I'd say it's the fucked-up mix of trivial competition in daily life, combined with a focus on superficial, material bullshit that is completely unfulfilling in the long run. In many ways, Americans are just soul-less, empty people who have cool toys.

[Ripzalot]

i talked to a guy on the lift the other day, a brit, and he was telling me that they dont have any lift served so what they do is run a section of the course, push back up, run it again, push back up, repeat until perfected, then do the next section. then they do the whole thing pretty damn well.

i thought it was a pretty good idea. the courses in the alps are so long i cant remember the whole thing and by the time i've done the same run 4 or 5 times i'm beat.

fwiw