Rhine Cycle Route - Rotterdam to Swiss. anybody have info?

**Tick** · 08-09-2010, 11:55 AM

anyone ever done this?

heading out on a Euro adventure in 3-weeks, wondering if this route is worth a shit.

thanks
-Tick

**Tippster** · 08-09-2010, 01:39 PM

Flat and Industrial until you hit Cologne. The stretch between Bonn and Mainz is beautiful - the whole section is lined with castles and vineyards. After that I don't know much of the area until you hit Freiburg

**Tick** · 08-10-2010, 05:56 AM

Thanks Tipp.
I read this elswhere too.
Currently thinking we'll skip the downriver sections and start where it gets fun.

on to the next question... can you cycle through Chamonix?

thinking Basel to Cham to Aosta and back up to Como.

wondering if it can be done without using EPO?

**Meathelmet** · 08-10-2010, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tick

on to the next question... can you cycle through Chamonix?

No. To many gnar freeskiers there.

Originally Posted by Tick

thinking Basel to Cham to Aosta and back up to Como.

Dude.You are going to get mauled..

Seriously. What route(s) are you thinking of? I can imagine the cycling will be quite gnar in france but in italy...pffeew! And I dont mean the winding,neverending uphills but the traffic....

Ok.Even more seriously...

You can ride "through" cham,but where? Going north to vallorcine (and swizz) is a beautifull road,traffic,yes, but allso other spandex clad peeps but the road is relatively ok.
But to Aosta?!!!!! Well,thats about as intriguing as undressing,getting stoned and heading to Bronx with fistfull of dollars.

First you have to go through the tunnel to courmayer with a...bus.
Then you take the small road towards aosta wich is about as safe as trying to dismantle a IED with a blowtorch and a hammer.
Well,almost.
The views are ok,but nothing spectacular in the beginning and then after that they are just meh. And the traffic with the speeding italians,peasants driving Ape´s,trucks dodging the motorway payments is...well...
But when (if you are trying to get to como via the souther route) you get to
ride even more congested small roads,with higher temps, shittier views and even MORE dodgy trucks.

I can only imagine the romp from Ivrea to como via the small roads,through the swamps of Milan plain and...eww...

If you are even in half of your wits,you would choose the route via vallorcine-martigny-brig-simplon pass-locarno towards como or
brig-passo della novena-airolo-arbedo-como. Way,way,way "better" roads,better views,better climate and maybe a little smaller chance of getting run over by a speeding 18 wheeler.

Still,if will be a hell of a ride...

And I take from the "euro adventure" that you are from the states or out of eruope?
I can not stress how different the traffic and the roads are.
I am not living in the area but have been driving the odd about 70.000km around those parts,with a car, and every kilometre is an adventure. The livestock,motorcycles,shit on the roads,campervans,other bicyclists,landslides,trucks etc make it a intresting ride.

Dont get me wrong,it is doable and it will be an intresting ride, but, personally,I would be have to be paid a lot to do it on bike..The hazards would just be off my scale when traveling with a clumsy,packed up bike and a tired head.
But this only from me who has not cycled the route,only driven there with a car..So take this rant with a pinch of salt or something..

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 08-10-2010, 03:02 PM

Actually, I think there's some very decent cycling to be done ALONG the rivers in the Netherlands: you're up on a sometimes twisty, turny dike with views across the 'polder landscape' and the river. ONce you get to the Ruhrgebied it might turn a tad industrial but I know for a fact that there is a lot of green nature in between the cities out there. It might take a little more planning (if any) but you can for sure find some nice routes from Rotterdam to the alps (along the Rhine).

**Tick** · 08-10-2010, 03:16 PM

this is great info... especially this:
If you are even in half of your wits,you would choose the route via vallorcine-martigny-brig-simplon pass-locarno towards como or
brig-passo della novena-airolo-arbedo-como.

precisely what I'm looking for! keep it coming!

**kevin267** · 08-10-2010, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by Tippster

The stretch between Bonn and Mainz is beautiful - the whole section is lined with castles and vineyards.

and has bike/walk/whatever paths along the river.. at least what I saw between Bingen and Koblenz... that bit actually looked really awesome to cruise on a bike

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 08-11-2010, 05:53 AM

Originally Posted by Tectonically_Neglected

Actually, I think there's some very decent cycling to be done ALONG the rivers in the Netherlands: you're up on a sometimes twisty, turny dike with views across the 'polder landscape' and the river. ONce you get to the Ruhrgebied it might turn a tad industrial but I know for a fact that there is a lot of green nature in between the cities out there. It might take a little more planning (if any) but you can for sure find some nice routes from Rotterdam to the alps (along the Rhine).

It really depends on what you are looking for in your ride. Long distance, spectacular views, great cuisine, culture, huge mountain environment, mtb trails...

To be honest, if I were you, I'd start from the S of NL, along the Meuse, then cross the Eiffel into Germany and then pick up the rhine... Or after following the Meuse through the Ardennes a bit, just head south further through the ardennes, then through the Elzas into the Jura and on into the alps. Actually the latter could be pretty awesome and very much off the beaten track.

Oh, and +1 on the superb bike trails in NL.

First google hits to give you an impression of rides along the rhine, the meuse.

**Tick** · 08-11-2010, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Tectonically_Neglected

To be honest, if I were you, I'd start from the S of NL, along the Meuse, then cross the Eiffel into Germany and then pick up the rhine... Or after following the Meuse through the Ardennes a bit, just head south further through the ardennes, then through the Elzas into the Jura and on into the alps. Actually the latter could be pretty awesome and very much off the beaten track.

Oh, and +1 on the superb bike trails in NL.

First google hits to give you an impression of rides along the rhine, the meuse.

Thanks so much for the help with our bike tour, the second link is absolutely awesome.... 20 some pages of maps!!!

I'm interested in the routes you mentiond from the netherlands to the Alps.

any suggestions on getting out of Amsterdam... hopefully along the water for a while, then down to either the Meuse or the Rhein? I'm struggling with a good route through that section that will miss the industrial parts of the Rhine.

**Tick** · 08-11-2010, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Meathelmet

No. To many gnar freeskiers there.

Dude.You are going to get mauled..

Seriously. What route(s) are you thinking of? I can imagine the cycling will be quite gnar in france but in italy...pffeew! And I dont mean the winding,neverending uphills but the traffic....

Ok.Even more seriously...

You can ride "through" cham,but where? Going north to vallorcine (and swizz) is a beautifull road,traffic,yes, but allso other spandex clad peeps but the road is relatively ok.
But to Aosta?!!!!! Well,thats about as intriguing as undressing,getting stoned and heading to Bronx with fistfull of dollars.

First you have to go through the tunnel to courmayer with a...bus.
Then you take the small road towards aosta wich is about as safe as trying to dismantle a IED with a blowtorch and a hammer.
Well,almost.
The views are ok,but nothing spectacular in the beginning and then after that they are just meh. And the traffic with the speeding italians,peasants driving Ape´s,trucks dodging the motorway payments is...well...
But when (if you are trying to get to como via the souther route) you get to
ride even more congested small roads,with higher temps, shittier views and even MORE dodgy trucks.

I can only imagine the romp from Ivrea to como via the small roads,through the swamps of Milan plain and...eww...

If you are even in half of your wits,you would choose the route via vallorcine-martigny-brig-simplon pass-locarno towards como or
brig-passo della novena-airolo-arbedo-como. Way,way,way "better" roads,better views,better climate and maybe a little smaller chance of getting run over by a speeding 18 wheeler.

Still,if will be a hell of a ride...

And I take from the "euro adventure" that you are from the states or out of eruope?
I can not stress how different the traffic and the roads are.
I am not living in the area but have been driving the odd about 70.000km around those parts,with a car, and every kilometre is an adventure. The livestock,motorcycles,shit on the roads,campervans,other bicyclists,landslides,trucks etc make it a intresting ride.

Dont get me wrong,it is doable and it will be an intresting ride, but, personally,I would be have to be paid a lot to do it on bike..The hazards would just be off my scale when traveling with a clumsy,packed up bike and a tired head.
But this only from me who has not cycled the route,only driven there with a car..So take this rant with a pinch of salt or something..

how about going through Cham then on to Flumet to Beaufort to Bourg-saint-maurice to Morgex then on to Aosta?
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...,1.781158&z=10

or I'd considr a bus or train from Cham to Courmayer then back on the bike. that reasnable?

I've obviously never been to the area but really want to check out the cool mountain towns. obvisouly i don't want to get killed though so i appreciate your help!

-Tick

**Tectonically_Neglected** · 08-11-2010, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Tick

Thanks so much for the help with our bike tour, the second link is absolutely awesome.... 20 some pages of maps!!!

I'm interested in the routes you mentiond from the netherlands to the Alps.

any suggestions on getting out of Amsterdam... hopefully along the water for a while, then down to either the Meuse or the Rhein? I'm struggling with a good route through that section that will miss the industrial parts of the Rhine.

Hmmm, just looking at a map of NL I'd say you have three options:

1. head west out of Amsterdam towards Haarlem, then follow the coast via The Hague, Rotterdam to Antwerp. You can bike along pretty neat bicycle paths through the dunes untill 'Zeeland', then it's polders and the Deltaworks (which are pretty impressive engineering wise). From Antwerp you have a less interesting stretch (about 1 full day) to the Ardennes where you can tag onto the previously sent link
2. check the bicycle route planner, here. Type in Amsterdam in the 'Start' box (plaatsnaam) and Maastricht in the 'einde' box (plaatsnaam). That gives you a rather direct route from Amsterdam to Maastricht. The latter part of this route is through 'Limburg' which is pretty decent. The stretch from Amsterdam to Utrecht might be a bit boring, then it should become pretty green (not spectacular though).
3. From Amsterdam head down in the direction of Hilversum, then Apeldoorn, Arnhem, Nijmegen. That should put you through 'Het Gooi' and 'The Veluwe' which are nice wooded areas. Using the bicycle route planner you should be able to find some nice bicycle paths. From Nijmegen follow the river 'Waal' and Meuse (Maas in dutch) to the Belgian border and you're onto the previously posted link.

Also note that if you contact Amsterdam VVV (tourist info) they should be able to either help you directly or point you to the special dutch cycling maps that show scenic routes where no cars are allowed. A map like that should also help.

Hope this helps.

**fool** · 08-11-2010, 05:27 PM

I'm not saying it will relate directly to your trip, but Maxime Turgeon did a Solo Traverse of the Northern Alps: biking his way across and getting some classic alpine climbs in. Even if it doesn't pertain exactly to your trip, I imagine you'll appreciate it, if you haven't seen it already:

http://www.sportiva.com/live/page.php?id=26&at=24
http://www.patagonia.com/web/us/pata...6&src=vuca0058 (this is better, go into the tin shed and look at his pictures/audio story: pretty cool)

Have a great trip with whatever you decide to do!

**Big Blue** · 08-12-2010, 09:21 AM

If you do decide to come through southern Switzerland, you can take a day off the bike and I'll take you on a canyoning trip. Honestly, I'd much rather be on a bike around here than in Italy.

**Tick** · 08-12-2010, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Big Blue

If you do decide to come through southern Switzerland, you can take a day off the bike and I'll take you on a canyoning trip. Honestly, I'd much rather be on a bike around here than in Italy.

planning on it! where in southern Switzerland we talking about?
canyoning sounds great! what is it?

**Meathelmet** · 08-13-2010, 01:15 AM

Originally Posted by Tick

how about going through Cham then on to Flumet to Beaufort to Bourg-saint-maurice to Morgex then on to Aosta?

or I'd considr a bus or train from Cham to Courmayer then back on the bike. that reasnable?

I've obviously never been to the area but really want to check out the cool mountain towns. obvisouly i don't want to get killed though so i appreciate your help!

-Tick

Oh boy! No!
I mean the the whole aosta-como part is a mess,no point of spending time there at all, as you´ll have a much better route in the norther swiss route.
There is no "cool mountain towns" in that part,none whatsoever,between courmayer-aosta-como. Couple of nice little villages,but...
Aosta valley is a big valley,with okish villages and ugly towns. Few castles,rock faces and couple of donkeys. It is just that after you get beyond Pt.st.Martin that it gets really,really booring as you enter the milanese plains. Just corn fields,traffic,and occasional cool castle.
And you´ll have that until como,for 200km...

Cool mountain towns = Take the swiss route. There is at least few of them along the way.

**Tick** · 08-13-2010, 07:05 AM

so you're talking about these routes you mentioned earlier: vallorcine-martigny-brig-simplon pass-locarno towards como or
brig-passo della novena-airolo-arbedo-como.

one question of the day... is it worth the detour from Basel to go over to the west to get a few more mountains included (to Brig or even further) when we could drop straight south to Andermatt.

So many dam options this is driving me crazy!!

**brice618** · 08-13-2010, 07:27 AM

Here is my european (proper) dream cycling tour... I think this is more visiting friends along the way though. It has a bit of what you're thinking. In planning big cycling trips I think its huge to just be there and make the decision though. It's not like you're stuck to any specific path. That's the beauty in it.

Linky

Hugh Conway · 08-13-2010, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by brice618

Linky

Interesting route. You have friends/places you want to see that influenced it?

Scenery wise in the alps I'd think Chamonix - Martigny - G. St Bernard would be more interesting.... but more climbing. Or just peddle up the rhone valley in Switzerland. On the eastern end going over the silvretta pass might be nicer, or extending over to Nauders - Zernez - St Moritz - Sils - Como would be nice (or go via Val Mustair). As Meatpuppet mentioned the Aosta valley isn't the nicest place to go bicycling

**Big Blue** · 08-14-2010, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Tick

planning on it! where in southern Switzerland we talking about?
canyoning sounds great! what is it?

Canyoning

I'm in Ticino, which is where Locarno is located. Beautiful mountains, beautiful women, and beautiful weather (most of the time at least, it's fucking pissing rain right now

).

**Tick** · 08-16-2010, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Big Blue

Canyoning

I'm in Ticino, which is where Locarno is located. Beautiful mountains, beautiful women, and beautiful weather (most of the time at least, it's fucking pissing rain right now

).

dam that looks sweet! I poked around you blog a bit and am now more excited than ever to explore switzerland!

When we get our shit togather on how to get through the alps i'll send you a message... either to set up a canyoneering trip or to set up some beers if you'
re up for a visit from a couple folks from the US you've never met!

-Tick

**brice618** · 08-16-2010, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

Interesting route. You have friends/places you want to see that influenced it?

Scenery wise in the alps I'd think Chamonix - Martigny - G. St Bernard would be more interesting.... but more climbing. Or just peddle up the rhone valley in Switzerland. On the eastern end going over the silvretta pass might be nicer, or extending over to Nauders - Zernez - St Moritz - Sils - Como would be nice (or go via Val Mustair). As Meatpuppet mentioned the Aosta valley isn't the nicest place to go bicycling

Some of it yeah, but a lot of it will be audibles based on how I feel like taking it. Its very much an approximate line and the exact roads are up in the air. Except maybe the northeast Italian portion. I love that rural area and could probably pedal in circles there for a long time without being bored.

Now I just have to save the money and get some partners in crime/ masochism.

Totally up for suggestions on that as well. Also debating a shotgun start in Turkey.

**Big Blue** · 08-17-2010, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tick

dam that looks sweet! I poked around you blog a bit and am now more excited than ever to explore switzerland!

When we get our shit togather on how to get through the alps i'll send you a message... either to set up a canyoneering trip or to set up some beers if you'
re up for a visit from a couple folks from the US you've never met!

-Tick

yeah, hit me up for sure. i'm always looking for an excuse to drink beer.

**grrrr** · 08-17-2010, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hugh Conway

Scenery wise in the alps I'd think Chamonix - Martigny - G. St Bernard would be more interesting....

The problem with that route is that the only part of the Aosta Valley really worth seeing is the Courmayeur-Aosta bit. Mostly the Courmayeur to La Salle part, really. Coming down the GSB dumps you out into the lower Aosta Valley, and it would be a boring ride from there.

I would reverse that, ride down to Aosta, then up the GSB, down the Rotten to Brig, then over to Verbania, along the lake then down to Como.

I can't really say if any of the roads are decent for biking, but the scenery would be awesome, and there would be some serious work-out in all that.

**Tick** · 08-17-2010, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by grrrr

I would reverse that, ride down to Aosta, then up the GSB, down the Rotten to Brig, then over to Verbania, along the lake then down to Como.

I can't really say if any of the roads are decent for biking, but the scenery would be awesome, and there would be some serious work-out in all that.

this is a cool idea!
I think wifey and I will make a gametime decision on how much of the Alps we want. if we're feeling good we'll just ride up and over for a few days. if we're spanked we'll probably take a more direct route.

personally, I'm hoping we're feeling good and ride all over the dam place!

**Meathelmet** · 08-17-2010, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by grrrr

I would reverse that, ride down to Aosta, then up the GSB...

I can't really say if any of the roads are decent for biking, but the scenery would be awesome, and there would be some serious work-out in all that.

Mind that the road from aosta to GSB is spooky. It has very heavy truck traffic going through the GSB tunnel, italian side has a lot of galleries that are dark and relatively narrow.
2 trucks + you on bike = intresting times.

But,if you survive the first 20km then you get to take the small road up to passo gr.st.bernhard, wich has just been redone. It is really a superb route with mind blowing scenery.Pity that on the swiss side the passo road is in a bit poorer state down to the tunnel entrance. There you have few km of dark galleries again but after that the road down to martigny is ok.

Is it worth to drive cham-aosta-GSB-martigny instead of cham-martigny is up to you. If you have time,want to see new places,have good nerves and especially have the oooomph in your thigs...why not?