Military Mags?

**orlowskij** · 07-13-2010, 05:47 AM

A similar thread to this one was posted a couple years ago, I wanted to get some more opinions though. [sweet blog] I'm 23, fresh out of college (B.S. in Mech. Engineering), and have an extremely well paying job with tons of opportunity for advancement. I'm also in Houston, have about 60 grand in student loans to pay off, and am just about bored out of my mind. I've been kicking around the idea of active duty for 3 years or so as a way to get the loans taken care of, and hopefully as an opportunity to do some cool shit. I could then return to my current job and go from there. [/sweet blog]

So my questions: Who has served, and what are your thoughts? What do you wish you had done differently? Where will they want to put me as an engineer?
Should I just quit my bitching and be thankful that I have a job?

The last thread mentioned military.com a few times which looks to be a pretty great resource. However, since TGR is the only place I go when I have a question I figured I'd ask here first.

**krp8128** · 07-13-2010, 05:56 AM

Watching with interest, as I'm 24, same degree, unemployed and have about the same in loans...

Go in the military, and I'll take your job.

**orlowskij** · 07-13-2010, 05:58 AM

Ha, we'll see. Head south man. There are engineering jobs to be found, just not where anyone on this board wants to be.

**krp8128** · 07-13-2010, 07:03 AM

Where'd you get your degree?

**Sessiøn** · 07-13-2010, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by orlowskij

A similar thread to this one was posted a couple years ago, I wanted to get some more opinions though. [sweet blog] I'm 23, fresh out of college (B.S. in Mech. Engineering), and have an extremely well paying job with tons of opportunity for advancement. I'm also in Houston, have about 60 grand in student loans to pay off, and am just about bored out of my mind. I've been kicking around the idea of active duty for 3 years or so as a way to get the loans taken care of, and hopefully as an opportunity to do some cool shit. I could then return to my current job and go from there. [/sweet blog]

So my questions: Who has served, and what are your thoughts? What do you wish you had done differently? Where will they want to put me as an engineer?
Should I just quit my bitching and be thankful that I have a job?

The last thread mentioned military.com a few times which looks to be a pretty great resource. However, since TGR is the only place I go when I have a question I figured I'd ask here first.

You're not going to make 60 grand in the military. If you REALLY want to end up in a war zone. Do it properly, and get paid real well with a contracting job overseas.

**2nd mate** · 07-13-2010, 07:41 AM

Do you smoke weed? Can you quit?
#1 Go talk to a recruiter. You DO NOT want to enlist. OCS or I wouldn't advise joining the Military. IMO NAVY is really your best option.
Alot depends on your grades too. The mech engineers from my school, Maine Maritime Academy, were in demand. Many went to Nuke school. If you are real freaking smart with real good grades you would have a pretty good chance at getting recruited by the NAVY. I really am not sure what the Military would do as far as paying off your student loans. It not like they are Bendini Lambert and Locke. Many of my friends went into the military and never paid for college, but they were in ROTC while they were enrolled in college.

**AKPogue** · 07-13-2010, 08:17 AM

I think you need to be more specific of what you want out of the military. What do you mean by cool shit? Do you want to foreign countries and kill people is that what you mean by cool shit? There are a lot of opportunities in the military both enlisted and officer that are really interesting. As an officer you will have better perks but most jobs are managing enlisted. While enlisted, you do the grunt work but there are some really fun and cool jobs, but that all depends on what you think is cool.

Phiberawptik, there are programs in the military that will pay off college loans and I believe that is what the op is referring to.

**ECKerry** · 07-13-2010, 09:01 AM

I was on active duty in the Air Force for five years after college and loved it. (I got out because I was living in my third place in five years and I didn't want to do that for 20 years.) The Air Force has a (well deserved) reputation for treating their people relatively well, the AF facilities are usually a step above Army and Navy ones. I would definitely do it again after college, it was a great way to see a lot of places and live in different parts of the country. I was not in a career field that deployed many people so I never went to Afghanistan or Iraq (plus I got out in 2004, so not really a lot of opportunity to get over there anyway). The Air Force paid for my civil engineering degree (AF ROTC) and made me what is now a force support officer. I wasn't a big fan of that career field, but made the best of it and found some cool projects to be in on. Not killing people and breaking their things, but feeling like a part of the bigger team anyway.

A few of my friends who also had engineering degrees ended up with cool jobs: one is a developmental engineer who works on stuff that is so classified they don't even call it 'black money.' He has had some really cool assignments job-wise, but not really ones that a skier would love: Fort Meade (Maryland), Las Vegas, and Edwards AFB (desert in California). Another mechanical engineer is just working in the civil engineering career field. Still others have gone on to get advanced degrees and are teaching at the Academy (not bad for skiing) or at Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio-- not really a skier's paradise. You could always try to get a pilot slot, work your way through the training and qualification pipeline and try to get a test pilot school slot. Another friend of mine who is an engineer did that. BUT, he just finished test pilot school and we've been out of college 11 years. It's a long road. Definitely not something you can do in three years.

And AK Pogue is right. Most officer jobs are managing people and resources, while enlisted ones are doing the hard work. But officers get paid a LOT more and have more freedom early in their careers. When I got out I was a captain, living in Maryland and making well over $60K per year by the time you factored in the tax free housing allowance on top of my base pay. You don't make that as a lieutenant, but the pay goes up quickly.

**orlowskij** · 07-13-2010, 09:03 AM

Ok, starting from the top. My degree is from Penn state. The contracting job overseas is going to happen at some point, but most likely not for a few years (at least with my current company). Don't smoke and yes, I had really good grades. I would definitely go to become an officer.

I should have been more clear about my motives. It's not money, I would definitely come out ahead in my current job. I'd like to travel, use my education (building or destroying things, working on mechanical systems), and support our guys on the ground. I don't see myself patrolling Afghanistan on foot. I'm not really sure what's out there.

**AKPogue** · 07-13-2010, 11:16 AM

I have enlisted in the Army and Navy. In the Navy I deployed with a Marine Corps unit and I spent 6 months in an Air Force school. If you are going to join this is my advice.
If you want to kill people, join the Marine Corps.
If you want to see the world, join the Navy.
If you want to go first class, join the Air Force.
No matter what you do don't go in the Army!!! They are about as fucked up as you can get. The Army is a big step down from all the other services in my opinion.

You have to do some research as to what you want to do. As I have said before and as ECKerry has said, you aren't going to do shit as an officer but you are going to manage the enlisted guys to build it, destroy it, or whatever. You need to narrow down what you want to do because you have given such a broad generalization. Anything you can think of the one of the services does it.

Go talk to a recruiter and he can at least give you options. Remember this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If a recruiter promises you something and you don't have it on paper, it isn't ever going to happen.

**PrankMonkey** · 07-13-2010, 02:21 PM

Another, chiming in from the Officer side of the house. In my experience, they'll put a Mech Engineer just about anywhere, especially if you got good grades. I sold my soul for a college education, and so I didn't have much input in where they put me (it didn't turn out terribly), but you're in a unique position because you don't owe them shit. If they want you, you should be able to get what you want. I wouldn't believe a thing a recruiter says, period. Not that they are all liars, but a lot of the time they're just ignorant of the jobs themselves (especially for Officer specialties)...and of course, some of them are straight up liars.

Instead, have the recruiter set you up with someone in a field that interests you. Talk to 'em, ask them questions. Be honest with yourself about what you want to do. At least in the AF, some of the quote-unquote "coolest" or "most prestigious" jobs are sometimes the ones with the least freedom once you're in the career field. So, if you love it, great, if it's not what you expected, you've got 3 more years to regret your decision. And this shouldn't need to be said on TGR, but lifestyle is important.

Pretty much everything that AKpogue said checks with what I've seen. There are Officer positions where you're the one doing the "job" (aviation, test engineers, medical, etc) but for the most part you get paid to lead/manage which has it's own rewards.

And anyone that brags about how cool their job is because it's "super secret classified whatever" is either full of shit or not right in the head. The novelty wears off really quick, and after that it's an epic pain-in-the-ass.

Feel to PM with questions if you like.

**mwthomsen** · 07-13-2010, 03:33 PM

I did alot of cool shit in the military and joined for two reasons.

1. GI College fund.
2. Jump out of an airplane.

I came pretty close to staying in and based on the direction I was interested in going there is a good chance I wouldn't be alive today.

You have a good job and there are quite a few opportunities to do cool shit that don't require you to be in the military. In the military you don't have total control over your destination and you don't have the opportunity to quite if your job puts in an unsafe position. An enlisted example, kid joins as a truck driver ends up attached to a Special Forces group and finds himself doing live patrols all over Central America. I guess as an Officer and engineer you could end up rebuilding some place like Kandahur (sp?) with no real offensive support getting shot at by every radical with a gun. Cool shit right there!

**Loon** · 07-13-2010, 03:55 PM

I was in a very similar situation. I graduated from college with a BS. I was about 60K in debt and I decided to enlist in the Army. The Army paid off all my student loans in 3 years (they only pay federal loans not private). I deployed to both Afghanistan and Iraq, but later on served in Japan which was awesome. Saw a total of 10 different countries and scored lots of young exotic punani and sent a lot of rounds down range with bad intentions.

Reasons I went Army enlisted:
1. Paid off all my student loan debt in 3 years (officers can't get this)
2. I got to pick my job prior to enlisting
3. Airforce wouldn't let me pick my job, I could have ended up scraping birdshit off runways
4. I thought I was to smart for the Marines, now I know different
5. Who wants to be stuck on a boat for months on end with a bunch of dudes?

I worked in a few Joint operations and have to say the Navy is by far the most fucked up bunch of cum guzzlers I have ever seen. Airforce is the most kushy branch if thats what ur looking for. The Marines are no nonsense if you want to be hardcore.

If you want to go Army answer these questions:
Do you wanna just do 3 years and get out? going officer will probably require more years.
Do you want uncle sam to pay off your student loans in full? If so throw officer out the window.
Can you get up in the morning put on the uniform and understand that you have completely lost your ability to ask why? In other words if I tell you to move this pile of bricks from one spot to another and then back again can you do it without question? (your gonna have to do a lot of dumb shit that makes no sense to you)
If you answered yes to those questions go army go infantry, kick some ass and eat some shit for 3 years and get out debt free.

**orlowskij** · 07-13-2010, 04:43 PM

There is a lot of good info in this thread. This is resonating with me in particular right now though:

Originally Posted by mwthomsen

You have a good job and there are quite a few opportunities to do cool shit that don't require you to be in the military.

The government vs private loan info is important as well, as 2/3 of my debt is private. That makes it a lot less attractive financially. If my current job wasn't as good as it is I think would go in a heartbeat. As it is though, boredom probably isn't a good reason to give up what is actually a pretty sweet gig. We'll see how the next year or so pans out I guess.

**donkeykong** · 07-14-2010, 03:08 PM

just come back to penn state and get a PhD for free (thats what i'm doing)...you won't be rich (for a while) but when you get out you will be hired as the boss of people who have worked there for 5+ years with lesser degrees.

and obviously the best part is you get to rip tussey every day, you can even get as much vertical as one JH tram ride in one day since the lifts are open til 10pm! and no competition for fresh tracks!

for real though, if you want to give yourself the best chance for advancing your career long term, you'll have to go back to school. i know this isn't what you asked about, and you probably already know this, but i'll give my opinion anyway.

being engineering, there is very good chance of getting complete funding from DOE or other gov't sources. you wouldn't have to pay back your loans yet since you would still be in school. choose something like the U of U in SLC, CU Boulder, or even MSU (Bozeman) and you'll get any powder morning you want without having to call in sick. you could postpone getting a real job, keep a "student/ski bum" lifestyle, which is definitely not the worst way to spend most of your 20s. i make like a 20k stipend per year, which is not much, but if you factor in the 45k tuition that is paid for (tax free, i might add since you didn't have to make 80k to pay the 45k) it looks more like 65k/yr salary. this is how i keep myself going in school...

imo, it doesn't sound like the military will make you happy, unless you like being barked at a lot, marching long distances, and having no freedom or flexibility. and if this is ignorant, i apologize. it just sounds like a means to rid yourself of debt, and if so i think there are better ways to do it (like continuing in your current job). although the military would offer the cheapest way of traveling and seeing the world. i would just be wary of entering that scene if i wasn't passionate about being there, because you might end up just as bored there as you are now, except that there will be no women where you are going.

then again, if you aren't that serious about MechE or a career that will make you lots of money, then this might be a big waste of time. but is it really a waste if you come out with an advanced degree for free (even if you never use it) while getting in 50+ days a year?

**orlowskij** · 07-14-2010, 04:57 PM

Ya, PhD isn't in the cards for me. With my current path an MBA is likely, but I can get pretty damn far in the company I'm in without one (my CEO has a BS). Neither of which are necessary to make a ton of money in my industry though.

Getting out of debt won't be a problem where I am, and I get to travel a fair bit as it is. I guess my main intention was to see what everyone had gotten out of their experiences, and to see if taking a pay cut and serving would be worth it for a couple years. Right now it looks like I probably won't be, but I will keep it in mind.

**iamTRuTH** · 07-14-2010, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by orlowskij

(building or destroying things)

Isn't there a joke that says
The difference between and Civil and Mechanical engineers are that the Mechanical Engineers build the weapons and us civil engineers build the targets.

Good luck with your choice, engineers make good soldiers

**bennettc14** · 07-14-2010, 06:34 PM

Coast Guard bro what are you thinking. I was in the application process until they cancelled all OCS boards for at least another year or so. Getting stationed in NE, PNW, or SD wouldn't be all that bad skiing wise not to mention living in the CONUS without a huge risk of getting deployed. SAR is really rewarding...so is shooting at drug runners from a helicopter. I think you really have to understand the restrictive lifestyle of the military first thing, nevertheless almost all OCS programs are severely restricting recruiting. Duh the economy sucks ass, especially for younger people. Why leave a well paying job with tons of advancement anyways? If you want excitement just go to a BlackWater civilian camp and play with fun shit.

**unitofstuff** · 07-14-2010, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by bennettc14

Coast Guard bro what are you thinking.

USCG doesn't offer the college loan repayment program.

**orlowskij** · 07-14-2010, 07:00 PM

It would be a leave of absence. I would return to the job I have now. I'd like to serve our country, and would definitely consider it if I thought it would be a rewarding experience and the pay cut wasn't absolutely ridiculous. It seems that people are mixed about the reward and the pay issue is pretty significant. Keep the opinions coming.

**DaveTV** · 07-14-2010, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by AKPogue

Go talk to a recruiter and he can at least give you options. Remember this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If a recruiter promises you something and you don't have it on paper, it isn't ever going to happen.

I can vouch for that. Insist on getting your job guaranteed

**orlowskij** · 07-14-2010, 07:29 PM

Definitely would get everything in writing. I've heard too many stories of what happens if you don't.

**rotorhead** · 07-14-2010, 08:42 PM

Not going to get in a pissing contest with AK poque, but my opinion of the Army was guite a bit different. I started enlisted and got accepted to the flight Warrant program. I was easily making 60K after a couple of years. If your thinking about aviation realize that in the rotor world you'll need a couple of deployments or a full 20 in order to qualify for the good heli jobs. EMS in the mountains usually requires 3,000hrs of flight time.
having deployed total of 6 times, be sure and think long and hard about signing up during a conflict. 12 months in the dirt every other year gets a little old. Check out the Guard / Reserves. There is an Apache unit at Ellington field and Conroe.

**LightRanger** · 07-15-2010, 03:33 AM

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that *all* federal repayment programs (military, Peace Corps, AmeriCorps, etc.) only apply to federally-backed loans. orlowskij said 2/3s of his loans are private.

That's $40k in loans that'll sit without any help other than a meager military salary. Granted UG private loans are generally super low interest (mine are like 3%, but they were set a few years back and I'd imagine it's gone up a bit), but still.