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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
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    8,999
    Quote Originally Posted by Spats View Post
    The best thing the Bay Area could do for its park system is immediately abolish every single "Open Space District" and return its parkland (and the tax money) to the local communities that it belongs to.
    More specifically what do you propose? I have the feeling that you are not proposing the parklands to be handed over to Cities and Counties to be managed by their parks departments, but maybe you are....

    i agree that skeggs definitely has the previous ("legacy"?) use issues going on and many of those closed trails were previously ridden by dirt bike and mtn bikes. when folks speak of the technical riding that used to exist there, they are referring to the times before the district took ownership. that area was also heavily logged. i'm sure the district can reference several reasons for closing or rerouting trails, but one that I can't blame them for doing, to some extent, is for ecology restoration. though, i also think this can be just an excuse.

    similar can be said of annadel. rock/mineral extraction and ranching are the two well known previous land uses at that location. i think the restoration card gets played there too as well.

    I don't see legal or illegal freeride trails necessarily being directly related to hindering restoration efforts....

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    6,097
    (Note: not about Annadel anymore, which is a state park and generally well run, in my experience.)

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    More specifically what do you propose? I have the feeling that you are not proposing the parklands to be handed over to Cities and Counties to be managed by their parks departments, but maybe you are....
    Yes, I am. "Open Space Districts", particularly the EBRPD, have a long track record of leaving land closed to the public for decades due to bogus issues that the district generates for itself in order to justify their huge budgets. Meanwhile, they allow ranchers to run thousands of cattle and sheep unimpeded on the land, destroying native vegetation, while the public is prosecuted for hiking off-trail!

    This is because these "districts" are entities to themselves and not accountable to anyone. Parks that are run by the local community are universally better maintained, have better trails, and are more ecologically sound. Compare, for instance, Joaquin Miller (City of Oakland, 100% singletrack and beautiful native canyon vegetation) with neighboring Chabot (80% ranch roads, grazed down to bare dirt and covered with invasive bull thistles and cow shit due to abusive grazing practices).

    Here's a terrible example of the EBRPD acquiring beautiful open space, immediately closing it to public access, and destroying it with cattle:
    http://www.rangenet.org/projects/wpl...e4/index.htm#1

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    i'm sure the district can reference several reasons for closing or rerouting trails, but one that I can't blame them for doing, to some extent, is for ecology restoration. though, i also think this can be just an excuse.
    As I said before, it is absolutely and provably an excuse. Mid-Pen's own study proved that erosion and siltation was due to poorly-routed fire roads, and recommended decommissioning most of them or letting them narrow down to singletrack width. The District fought that tooth and nail and is still fighting it, because it won't let them their drive trucks all over, set up speed traps to raise money, and blame erosion on mountain bikers.

    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    similar can be said of annadel. rock/mineral extraction and ranching are the two well known previous land uses at that location. i think the restoration card gets played there too as well.

    I don't see legal or illegal freeride trails necessarily being directly related to hindering restoration efforts....
    Exactly. The impact of singletrack of any type is basically insignificant. Up here in Tahoe they rerouted an entire section of the TRT in order to avoid an eagle nest -- and the next summer, the eagles relocated their nest right next to the new trail!

  3. #28
    Hugh Conway Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Spats;2916171aExactly. The impact of singletrack of any type is basically insignificant. Up here in Tahoe they rerouted an entire section of the TRT in order to avoid an eagle nest -- and the next summer, the eagles relocated their nest [i
    right next to the new trail![/i]
    When Wilder Ranch closed the poorly sited trail/singletrack next to the gulch (>10 years ago), water quality went up. That was a poor quality, poorly designed trail (how many illegal trails are like that? I know plenty of "illegal" bolted rock climbs suckass - plenty of need for more climbs, just not many good routesetters)

    I hate the superslow pace that parkland gets transferred to the public as well - lots of that is the institution (it took what, 5+ years for Gray Whale Ranch to open to the public?) some of it is other problems - the East side of Coast Dairies hasn't been added yet because of problems with Hazardous waste at the CEMEX dump site and, now that the plant is closed, CEMEX doesn't give a shit.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    6,097
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    When Wilder Ranch closed the poorly sited trail/singletrack next to the gulch (>10 years ago), water quality went up. That was a poor quality, poorly designed trail (how many illegal trails are like that? I know plenty of "illegal" bolted rock climbs suckass - plenty of need for more climbs, just not many good routesetters)
    You're right: there are plenty of shitty illegal trails. But trails are much higher quality when people have time to actually build them instead of just skidding their bike down a drainage.

    Example: the old "Jackie Chan" trail that came down from Upper to Lower Kingsbury in Tahoe. It was basically made by people on DH bikes riding down a dry creekbed and building stunts on the flat parts (which were old mining roads). Frankly I thought it sucked...but there was (and still is) a lot more erosion coming off those old road cuts than off a one-foot-wide trail down a drainage that is all sand anyway. The USFS spent a lot of time and money "closing" it.

    Meanwhile, that very same summer, the USFS decided to use a giant bulldozer-mounted chopper to thin trees in Raab Meadow, resulting in easily 20-30 acres of complete destruction RIGHT ON THE LAKE as the treads crushed everything. Over a year later, and what was once a thriving, natural understory still looks like an abandoned construction site...because they couldn't be bothered to wait until there was snow on the ground, or to hire a few unemployed people to cut trees by hand (which would have probably been finished faster, as the trees were all very small).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh Conway View Post
    I hate the superslow pace that parkland gets transferred to the public as well - lots of that is the institution (it took what, 5+ years for Gray Whale Ranch to open to the public?)
    Yes. The EBRPD has been sitting on some of its properties for well over a decade. Meanwhile, of course, the ranchers have full access to run their cattle on it, but people are prosecuted for trespassing.

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