shopping for a diamond or engagement ring? my advice

[grapedrink]

just went through the process so here's my advice for other first timers to maybe save you some time and money. go to truthaboutdiamonds.com and read about on all the different ratings (cut, clarity, color, etc..), then go to a jewelry store and look at different sized stones and qualities (now that you know what they are) and see with your own eyes how they all compare. can you tell the difference between an F an I color? can you see the inclusions in an SI1 without a loupe? what does strong fluorescence look like? when you know what size and quality you want, whats important to you, go to jamesallen.com, goodoldgold.com or whiteflash.com and find your stone. why these sites? because they give you a picture of the diamond under magnification so you can see what you're actually buying, it's amazing how different the inclusions from two stones with the same rating can be. you don't want the one with the big black blotch in the middle. bluenile.com does not have photos. i found jamesallen had the best prices and most selection, and you can get a further discount of $20-70 if you go to pricescope.com, find a link to jamesallen.com and click through. then every stone you look at on jamesallen.com will be discounted. there's also discount codes if you have them set the stone in one of their bands too, just looked around for those. oh yeah they also have free shipping (to canada too). wherever you buy i would stick with GIA and AGS certified stones, they're the most reputable/strictest.

if you don't like their settings then just order the loose stone(s) and find a local jeweler to make you a band and setting. depending on the size and thickness a simple 18K gold ring should cost you $250-350. platinum is probably triple the cost.. i went to some small jewelry stores and didn't like any of their bands. in canada we have birks, i guess it's like the tiffanys of canada? i dunno, anyways i liked one of their bands so i went to a wholesale jeweler and he made me a copy of the band i liked based on some pictures i printed off their website. i dunno how they do it but it looks just like it. to give you an idea, total cost of my ring vs the cost of buying the same ring at birks with the same cut, clarity, color, etc..? birks ring is four times more expensive. FOUR. granted this is probably the most expensive jewelry store chain in canada, but you get the idea. the savings can be enormous. and i also found that most other jewelers don't have reputable independent lab certification (GIA/AGS) for the majority of their diamonds (unless you buy something big) so you don't even really know what you're getting AND its costing you 2, 3, 4 times more. i'm personally against the entire 'tradition' of buying diamond engagement rings and vowed to never do it, but somehow i got sucked into it. i take comfort in knowing that at least i got my moneys worth and didn't spend a fortune hopefully this helps someone else too.

[Captain Awesome]

I just went through it too, and I'd add Excel Diamonds (in NYC) to the list of vendors you should talk to. Judah and Barry (son/father) were amazing to deal with, REALLY know their stuff, and helped me get a stone that's gotten a lot of compliments from people who know a lot more about diamonds than I do. (www.exceldiamonds.com) Best of all, their pricing is really good, and they've got a good "tryout" policy.

The other thing to look at if you're shopping online, is to get ASET or IdealScope images of the stone. Magnified pix are really helpful, but the ASET (multi-color) and IdealScope (red) images tell you a lot about the quality of the rock as it's been cut.



those images show you light performance, which is determined largely by cut, but clarity has a lot to do with it too. (I ended up getting the first one).


I didn't means to step all over grapedrink's thread, but I figured that if anyone's looking here for info, this would be good to add to the mix...

[grapedrink]

not at all feel free to add any tips or advice. i know jamesallen has idealscope on some of their diamonds, don't know about the other sites. all i can say about nyc is stay the fuck out of the diamond district! so greasy

[mmmthmtskier]

I had to go through this process a year ago.
I was very fortunate to find a diamond retailer who I knew as a customer. I had no clue what to look for. I completely trusted her before I knew what she did for a living and the process was easy and pain free.
My advice is to find someone you are comfortable dealing with/trust and go from there. It's an intimidating process but I got lucky, I guess. She dealt with diamond wholesalers in Los Angeles and is a certified diamond grader/appraiser. The appraisal value was about 2 times what I paid for it and my wife has received numerous compliments from friends and jewelry retailers about the ring.

gd, I never even thought about buying stones over the internet and trusting pics to select stones for a ring. That took some balls/trust on your part. Very interesting to read about your experiences and glad things worked out to your satisfaction. I know many maggs will appreciate your advice.

[Captain Awesome]

all i can say about nyc is stay the fuck out of the diamond district! so greasy

I should add - I didn't ever actually go to NYC. I dealt with Judah strictly through e-mail/phone. I provided a list of candidates from their inventory (based on what I knew I was looking for), and he helped weed that out to the 3 that are shown above based on his expert, in-person assessment, and then I chose from those.

I only went with them after trying to work with a friend of a friend who turned out to be a bit shady and not as expert as she claimed. I paid about 2/3 as much as she was asking for a stone that was easily 2x as good (based on the stats).

[OldLarry]

I had to go through this process a year ago.
I was very fortunate to find a diamond retailer who I knew as a customer. I had no clue what to look for. I completely trusted her before I knew what she did for a living and the process was easy and pain free.
My advice is to find someone you are comfortable dealing with/trust and go from there. It's an intimidating process but I got lucky, I guess. She dealt with diamond wholesalers in Los Angeles and is a certified diamond grader/appraiser. The appraisal value was about 2 times what I paid for it and my wife has received numerous compliments from friends and jewelry retailers about the ring.

gd, I never even thought about buying stones over the internet and trusting pics to select stones for a ring. That took some balls/trust on your part. Very interesting to read about your experiences and glad things worked out to your satisfaction. I know many maggs will appreciate your advice.

Find someone in the biz you trust through a referral. My wife happens to be a gemologist. She has helped lots of friends. And yes, stay out of the diamond district unless you yourself are in the biz.

[jgb@etree]

I'd also recommend getting a rock that has already been certified by GIA (there's another group that certifies diamonds, but the name is escaping me).

[GeezerSteve]

My advice: Don't buy a diamond. Don't marry a girl who requires a diamond. Diamonds are plentiful, not rare. They are expensive only because DeBeers has monopolized the market and has conducted the most successful consumer marketing program in the history of civilization. Industrial diamonds are cheap and utilitarian. But cosmetic diamonds are for suckers.

[grapedrink]

its not like you're looking at a picture and have to rate the diamond yourself, all you need to do is educate yourself so you know how to interpret the information listed in the gemologists report, ie the certificate. its just numbers, like i said truthaboutdiamonds.com is great, click on the "truth about.." tab and start reading. make sure you go to a jeweler after reading to see how color sensitive you are and what inclusions actually look like to the naked eye. buying a mountain bike is more complicated, don't be intimidated!

[Missing Sock]

My advice: Don't buy a diamond. Don't marry a girl who requires a diamond. Diamonds are plentiful, not rare. They are expensive only because DeBeers has monopolized the market and has conducted the most successful consumer marketing program in the history of civilization. Industrial diamonds are cheap and utilitarian. But cosmetic diamonds are for suckers.

I wondered how long it would take to get one of these responses.

I was off by about 3 or 4 posts.

[mmmthmtskier]

My advice: Don't buy a diamond. Don't marry a girl who requires a diamond. Diamonds are plentiful, not rare. They are expensive only because DeBeers has monopolized the market and has conducted the most successful consumer marketing program in the history of civilization. Industrial diamonds are cheap and utilitarian. But cosmetic diamonds are for suckers.

Maybe there are some of these women out there but they've escaped my attention somehow.
I think that it's the size of the stone you can negotiate with your fiancee more than no stone at all. I've seem some ginormous diamonds that actually look ugly on a woman's hand, so ridiculous/overkill. If a woman wanted only ginormous, I would probably set my sights elsewhere...

[Huck_Schmuck]

Speechless Brother! Good for you! V is singing with joy.

Congratulations!

And some great stuff in there, we are just looking at sorting out the wedding ring to go with the engagement ring! Thanks for sharing.

[OldLarry]

Maybe there are some of these women out there but they've escaped my attention somehow.
I think that it's the size of the stone you can negotiate with your fiancee more than no stone at all. I've seem some ginormous diamonds that actually look ugly on a woman's hand, so ridiculous/overkill. If a woman wanted only ginormous, I would probably set my sights elsewhere...

Hint: women like tiny diamonds about as much as they like tiny cocks.

Everyone SAYS they don't really care but...

[grapedrink]

Speechless Brother! Good for you! V is singing with joy.

Congratulations!

And some great stuff in there, we are just looking at sorting out the wedding ring to go with the engagement ring! Thanks for sharing.

thanks man!

[GeezerSteve]

I wondered how long it would take to get one of these responses.

Roll eyes all you want. You didn't respond to the substance of my post because the facts are on my side. Add Apartheid, corruption and oppression to the mix.

Maybe there are some of these women out there but they've escaped my attention somehow.

Actually, it has become chic to not wear diamonds in some circles. It might be a generational thing because the 30 y.o. suburban babes seem to have taken the bait on the diamond scam. My babe is hot and she lost her desire for a diamond after watching that Frontline episode.* I used to practice law with a guy who married one of the hottest chicks I've ever seen. When he proposed to her, he said "I can buy you a diamond or we can spend the money by taking a year long trip around the world." She chose the trip, and loves telling that story.

*Netflix carries most Frontline episode, but not The Diamond Empire. I suspect that's because it would be bad biz to thwart DeBeers.

Look, if people want to buy a diamond for their bretrothed, that's their biz, but they ought to be informed about the truth, i.e., that they are paying tons of money for a plentiful product that sells for 100X+ what it would sell for in a truly competitive market, and of the history of the diamond cartel, Oppenheimer's imperialism, etc. Knowledge is good. Rolling eyes is, well, just rolling eyes.

[mmmthmtskier]

Hint: women like tiny diamonds about as much as they like tiny cocks.

Everyone SAYS they don't really care but...

Didn't say buy 'em a tiny one, just not ginormous.
Besides, if a woman was only interested in what's between my legs, I just lost interest in that woman...

[XXX-er]

On Gilligans island I ferget who was getting married BUT they just used a cigar band from one of Thurston Howel III's best cigars ...what more do you need eh?

[mmmthmtskier]

It might be a generational thing because the 30 y.o. suburban babes seem to have taken the bait on the diamond scam. My babe is hot and she lost her desire for a diamond after watching that Frontline episode.
Look, if people want to buy a diamond for their bretrothed, that's their biz, but they ought to be informed about the truth, i.e., that they are paying tons of money for a plentiful product that sells for 100X+ what it would sell for in a truly competitive market, and of the history of the diamond cartel, Oppenheimer's imperialism, etc. Knowledge is good.

Lucky you, she sounds like a keeper!
Oh, it's definitely a generational thing alright. My lady didn't go for a ginormous ring and she was concerned about getting "conflict-free" stones. I guess I consider myself lucky, all thing considered...

[GeezerSteve]

Lucky you, she sounds like a keeper!

She is, for now.

Notwithstanding my strong (and informed) view about cosmetic diamonds, to the newly engaged maggots contributing to this thread: Best wishes, gents!

[grapedrink]

im with you big steve, i could have definitely gotten away without buying a diamond, i even said early on i wasn't gonna buy one because it's a ridiculous tradition perpetuated by the diamond industry. same goes for lavish wedding receptions and valentines day. but i could tell deep down part of her wanted one so i'm certainly not going to disappoint her. i don't know what kind of ring your buddy was thinking of getting but we already took the year long trip around the world and it cost about 40 times more than i spent on this ring. thats why i posted, i asked my buddies what they paid for their rings and was shocked. if you do a little more legwork you can save so much money and get a very respectable ring for a very reasonable price.

there are lots of women out there who would like a diamond ring who otherwise are not flashy or materialistic, i think it may have to do with the whole childhood fantasy thing than keeping up with peers. although she works with some italian girl who has repeatedly mentioned that she will be very upset if her husband doesn't buy her at least a 1.16 ct ring. wanna know why? because she's the last of her group to get married and she needs to have the biggest diamond (which is currently 1.15 ct). i have about as much chance of wrapping my head around that as i do string theory but hey, takes all kinds i guess.

[FranklezZ]

I'm personally against the entire 'tradition' of buying diamond engagement rings and vowed to never do it, but somehow i got SUCKED into it. i take comfort in knowing that at least i got my moneys worth

At least he got sucked... From what I have heard that kind of behavior ends when you get married. Perhaps you should set up some sort of payment plan for the ring with the future wiffey...

[H0G]

YOU ARE ALL WRONG.... A pawnshop is the best place to get one. You don't need all that fancy crap, just look through a loop to see it. They are just rocks.

[PowderHorse]

I picked mine out at an antique store, very simple and functional for ski gloves, horses, cutting wood, etc...wouldn't get snagged on something but still lovely to look at (white gold, looked like platinum and less than a carat).

I told him it was there and wa-la, one day he gave it to me.

[Jethro]

I did not get a ring when I proposed to my wife and it was a good thing. The cuts and settings I was looking at were nothing like what she liked. We had one custom made, along with our wedding bands at a local jeweler. She was very pleased.

PS. Big Steve is right on the money about the diamond industry.

[mmmthmtskier]

.... A pawnshop is the best place to get one.

I'm guessin' around 2/3 to 3/4 of the feminine persuasion wouldn't go for that...