So There Was this Oil Spill You See

[WaxMyStick]

You are retarded, my man. Totally retarded. Say hello to Glenn Beck for me.

Who is this Glen Beck guy, is he evil? Did he cause the spill? Did he go to Google U too? Wait, wait, is this a personal attack? That's not very nice mister, stop it.

[Pillsbury]

A good friend of mine's dad has been working in the oil industry for over 35 years. He revealed a few of his observations about what is happening in the GOM right now.

First of all there have been cases in the past of well blowouts. One of the companies he worked for dealt with them quickly and effectively by using explosives to close the well shaft. Supposedly BP had full knowledge of the effectiveness and feasability of this approach and declined to use it because they were (and still are) intent on profiting from the well. Maybe the Russians talking about using nukes were spot on?

Secondly there have been cases where major spills like this were cleaned up at the source with up to 90% effectiveness. Using vacuums to pump the oil to waiting tankers where the water can be separated from the oil using centrifuges and the water can then be returned to the sea. Friends' dad says that BP was presented with this option and they balked because of the price.

This is of course unsubstantiated, but comes from what I view as a very reliable source. None the less I googled for a bit more info and found this article about vacuuming the oil up.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...d/blog-332967/

[lionelhutz]

The oil tanker thing isn't unsubtantiated at all. Shell ceo was on the Today show talking about it and how it worked in the Kingdom of Saud back in the 80/90s.

BP didn't want to hear it apparently.

I guess cause they were too busy being fucks who are ruining one of the greatest fisheries on earth

[powdork]

A good friend of mine's dad has been working in the oil industry for over 35 years. He revealed a few of his observations about what is happening in the GOM right now.

First of all there have been cases in the past of well blowouts. One of the companies he worked for dealt with them quickly and effectively by using explosives to close the well shaft. Supposedly BP had full knowledge of the effectiveness and feasability of this approach and declined to use it because they were (and still are) intent on profiting from the well. Maybe the Russians talking about using nukes were spot on?

Secondly there have been cases where major spills like this were cleaned up at the source with up to 90% effectiveness. Using vacuums to pump the oil to waiting tankers where the water can be separated from the oil using centrifuges and the water can then be returned to the sea. Friends' dad says that BP was presented with this option and they balked because of the price.

This is of course unsubstantiated, but comes from what I view as a very reliable source. None the less I googled for a bit more info and found this article about vacuuming the oil up.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...d/blog-332967/

i gotta call bs on pretty much all that.
1. BP will never use this well again. Not only would they kill themselves PR-wise, but the well itself is not stable enough. That doesn't mean they won't tap the reservoir somewhere else. An explosive charge to close the current well wouldn't change that. A nuclear detonation probably would.

2. There are a number of problems with the nuclear option. It still requires the same new holes to be dug (or similar) as to what they are doing for relief wells. There is the geology to consider. There is the underwater fallout which is also not good for fisheries (who knows though, maybe we'd end up with some new species of U-2 prawns). In any case, the nuclear option is absolutely not up to BP.

3. If that spill happened in 1993 (and right now it appears Pozzi is the only one saying so) it was from several tankers and two pipelines and it was a surface spill resulting in a large slick. That is not the case here because of the depth and the dispersants. Also you said "Secondly there have been cases where major spills like this were cleaned up at the source with up to 90% effectiveness. Using vacuums to pump the oil to waiting tankers where the water can be separated from the oil using centrifuges and the water can then be returned to the sea", which comes from the sodahead article. Even Pozzi says it was 85% effective and the oil/water combo had to go to shore to be separated in several steps (one of which was the centrifuge process).

[ArmadaBC]

If your watching the ROV's the volume coming out may look the same but that may be a result of the pressure increase due to the closing of the first valve. That closing upped the recovery totals about 5,000 barrels and a shit ton of methane. The tanker ship top side can only process 15,000 barrels a day and they are pushing something in the neighborhood of 10,000 to 11,000 right now so I doubt we will see any further reduction in the amount leaking. Additionally they are seeing a mix of 80% gas to 20% oil that is serious bad news bears unless you want to see something else blow up down there.

Even using BP's numbers that means 11,000 to 12,000 barrels are still leaking a day or a Valdez every 22 days. That's a huge fucking problem when your only drilling two relief wells, add in the necessary misses and its September and you've dumped 4 fucking Vadlez's worth of oil in the GOM.

[lionelhutz]

Even using BP's numbers that means 11,000 to 12,000 barrels are still leaking a day or a Valdez every 22 days. That's a huge fucking problem when your only drilling two relief wells, add in the necessary misses and its September and you've dumped 4 fucking Vadlez's worth of oil in the GOM.

Awesome. Better hold some congressional hearings instead of doing something.

[montanaskier]

why don't we use the super tanker idea to skim? Can someone please ask BP and then the President why we aren't doing this? Also can someone please ask why THOUSANDS of National Guard or the fucking Army or Navy or something aren't on EVERY beach or shore line cleaning shit up?

[grrrr]

High seas oil collection has yet to be proven feasible. Curtain boom works only if you can anchor it in place, and if the seas and currents aren't excessive. It only takes 12" waves to start splashing oil over the boom, and even a 1 knot current will entrain it under. Further, as crude emulsifies, it leaves the surface. The light oils move to the surface, and some of that will be evaporated. The heavier oils turn into tar balls and mousse, which drop under the surface.

Major oil spill response in the past has been based on exclusion. You give up on the big spill, and focus on what few areas to keep the oil out of.

As far as beach cleanup goes, there was a small army in PWS. It was a joke. Once the oil hit, there was virtually nothing that could be done. All of the video of rocks being pressure washed was a PR stunt by Exxon. They would move equipment in, fly in the media for video, then move everyone out. Probably just as well - the rock washing sent much of the oil back into the water column.

We were told that we were being paid $400 a day to do what we were told, and to keep our mouths shut around the media, USCG or anyone else who gave a shit.

Of course, this is based on my past spill response experience. Hopefully, someone will have figured out a better way in the past 20 years.

But I doubt it.

[BigDaddy]

I don't know shit about this, but the one thing I've read that makes sense, is the North Sea requirement to drill two holes and fit them both out, so you've always got a backup for each well. Is this too costly, not really feasible or wouldn't make a difference in this case? I know it's too late here, but there has to be a better way. We're still going to drill no matter what.

[ArmadaBC]

This situation just gets more fucked by the moment.

BP is desperately trying to hold off a hostile takeover, even more important the U.S. Government is trying to do the same. So who the fuck do we know that can hedge this kind of risk and keep Petrochina out of the mix, lets call our good friends at Goldman because no one can manipulate debt markets like they can and fuck they might as well be on the gov't payroll.

U.S. gov't can't have Petrochina in the mix because they are a huge us debt holder and will tell Barry and Congress to fuck off if they try to ex post facto raise the 75million cap. Additionally China isn't concerned with making money rather they want to ensure long terms stocks so they will just take a few million barrels a day out of the market. Fuck BP doesn't need to even sell they could just sign over the right of first refusal for their uncommitted production. BP lines its pockets and China still takes a few million barrels off the table, and there debt position means U.S. Gov't can do fuck all about it.

This is why you'll never see the gov't really get after these clowns because at the end of the day we need them more than they need us.

[gh444]

Also can someone please ask why THOUSANDS of National Guard or the fucking Army or Navy or something aren't on EVERY beach or shore line cleaning shit up?

Because its not their job?

[iscariot]

This situation just gets more fucked by the moment.

BP is desperately trying to hold off a hostile takeover, even more important the U.S. Government is trying to do the same. So who the fuck do we know that can hedge this kind of risk and keep Petrochina out of the mix, lets call our good friends at Goldman because no one can manipulate debt markets like they can and fuck they might as well be on the gov't payroll.

U.S. gov't can't have Petrochina in the mix because they are a huge us debt holder and will tell Barry and Congress to fuck off if they try to ex post facto raise the 75million cap. Additionally China isn't concerned with making money rather they want to ensure long terms stocks so they will just take a few million barrels a day out of the market. Fuck BP doesn't need to even sell they could just sign over the right of first refusal for their uncommitted production. BP lines its pockets and China still takes a few million barrels off the table, and there debt position means U.S. Gov't can do fuck all about it.

This is why you'll never see the gov't really get after these clowns because at the end of the day we need them more than they need us.

But isn't this a free market solution, like the ones that the rightwing/trueconservative/teabaggers are always talking about.

A profitable company IS in the best interest of Americans.

So clearly DBT supports Petrochina as it is simply a corporation working in a free market situation; therefore, that must be the best thing for the American people. You know, corporations like McDonald's, and the big Tobacco companies, Monsanto, etc etc etc... they only do what's best for their customers, the American people.


Those stupid simple minded librodouches and their environmental concerns and distrust of the intent and deeds of corporations. Sheesh, when will they ever learn. Don't they know that Corporations only do what's best for the American people?

[/end dripping sarcasm and DBT/Rush/Beck/Coulter/Teabagger parroting]

[Rip'nStick]

BP should be paying unemployed GOM residents to clean up. As long as they have good team leaders and inspections, I think this would be reasonable. Maybe National Guard could supervise.

[DasBlunt]

I am just commenting on the sarcastic comment about what is best for the AMerican people.

Oil futures are going to be more and more fucked because of this....regardless if it is only a small change in production because of less deep water drilling.

[iscariot]

I am just commenting on the sarcastic comment about what is best for the AMerican people.

Oil futures are going to be more and more fucked because of this....regardless if it is only a small change in production because of less deep water drilling.

Aren't oil futures just a free market solution! WoooooWhoooooo. Just buy oil futures then exercise your GOD GIVEN RIGHT to FREE MARKETS!!!! AMERICA, FUCK YAH!!!! I spoke to the Founding Fathers yesterday and they said they approve of this.


Oh, and more of BP just doing what's best for the People

Wiki

Incidents
1993–1995: Hazardous substance dumping

In September 1999, one of BP’s US subsidiaries, BP Exploration Alaska (BPXA), agreed to resolve charges related to the illegal dumping of hazardous wastes on the Alaska North Slope, for $22 million. The settlement included the maximum $500,000 criminal fine, $6.5 million in civil penalties, and BP’s establishment of a $15 million environmental management system at all of BP facilities in the US and Gulf of Mexico that are engaged in oil exploration, drilling or production. The charges stemmed from the 1993 to 1995 dumping of hazardous wastes on Endicott Island, Alaska by BP’s contractor Doyon Drilling. The firm illegally discharged waste oil, paint thinner and other toxic and hazardous substances by injecting them down the outer rim, or annuli, of the oil wells. BPXA failed to report the illegal injections when it learned of the conduct, in violation of the Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation and Liability Act.[41]
2005: Texas City Refinery explosion
Main article: Texas City Refinery explosion

In March 2005, BP's Texas City, Texas refinery, one of its largest refineries, exploded causing 15 deaths, injuring 180 people and forcing thousands of nearby residents to remain sheltered in their homes.[42] A large column filled with hydrocarbon overflowed to form a vapour cloud, which ignited. The explosion caused all the casualties and substantial damage to the rest of the plant. The incident came as the culmination of a series of less serious accidents at the refinery, and the engineering problems were not addressed by the management. Maintenance and safety at the plant had been cut as a cost-saving measure, the responsibility ultimately resting with executives in London.[43]

The fall-out from the accident continues to cloud BP's corporate image because of the mismanagement at the plant. There have been several investigations of the disaster, the most recent being that from the U.S. Chemical Safety and Hazard Investigation Board[44] which "offered a scathing assessment of the company." OSHA found "organizational and safety deficiencies at all levels of the BP Corporation" and said management failures could be traced from Texas to London.[42]

The company pleaded guilty to a felony violation of the Clean Air Act, was fined $50 million, and sentenced to three years probation.

On October 30, 2009, the US Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) fined BP an additional $87 million — the largest fine in OSHA history — for failing to correct safety hazards revealed in the 2005 explosion. Inspectors found 270 safety violations that had been previously cited but not fixed and 439 new violations. BP is appealing that fine.[42][45]
2006–2007: Prudhoe Bay
Main article: Prudhoe Bay oil spill

In August 2006, BP shut down oil operations in Prudhoe Bay, Alaska, due to corrosion in pipelines leading up to the Alaska Pipeline. The wells were leaking insulating agent called Arctic pack, consisting of crude oil and diesel fuel, between the wells and ice.[46] BP had spilled over one million litres of oil in Alaska's North Slope.[47] This corrosion is caused by sediment collecting in the bottom of the pipe, protecting corrosive bacteria from chemicals sent through the pipeline to fight this bacteria. There are estimates that about 5,000 barrels (790 m3) of oil were released from the pipeline. To date 1,513 barrels (240.5 m3) of liquids, about 5,200 cubic yards (4,000 m3) of soiled snow and 328 cubic yards (251 m3) of soiled gravel have been recovered. After approval from the DOT, only the eastern portion of the field was shut down, resulting in a reduction of 200,000 barrels per day (32,000 m3/d) until work began to bring the eastern field to full production on 2 October 2006.[48]

In May 2007, the company announced another partial field shutdown owing to leaks of water at a separation plant. Their action was interpreted as another example of fallout from a decision to cut maintenance of the pipeline and associated facilities. [49]

On 16 October 2007 Alaska Department of Environmental Conservation officials reported a toxic spill of methanol (methyl alcohol) at the Prudhoe Bay oil field managed by BP PLC. Nearly 2,000 gallons of mostly methanol, mixed with some crude oil and water, spilled onto a frozen tundra pond as well as a gravel pad from a pipeline. Methanol, which is poisonous to plants and animals, is used to clear ice from the insides of the Arctic-based pipelines.[50]
2006-2008: Texas City refinery fatalities

From January 2006 to January 2008, three workers were killed at the company's Texas City, Texas refinery in three separate accidents. In July 2006 a worker was crushed between a pipe stack and mechanical lift, in June 2007, a worker was electrocuted, and in January 2008, a worker was killed by a 500-pound piece of metal that came loose under high pressure and hit him.[51]
2007: Propane price manipulation

Four BP energy traders in Houston were charged with manipulating prices of propane in October 2007. As part of the settlement of the case, BP paid the US government a $303 million fine, the largest commodity market settlement ever in the US. The settlement included a $125 million civil fine to the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, $100 million to the Justice Department, $53.3 million to a restitution fund for purchasers of the propane BP sold, and $25 million to a US Postal Service consumer fraud education fund.[52][53]
2008: Oil price manipulation

In May 2010, the Supreme Court of Arbitration of the Russian Federation agreed in support of the country’s antimonopoly service’s decision to a 1.1 billion Ruble fine ($35.2 million) against TNK/BP, a 50/50 joint venture, for abusing antitrust legislation and setting artificially high oil products prices in 2008, TNK and BP declined comment.[54]
2009: North Sea helicopter accident
Main article: April 2009 North Sea helicopter crash

On April 1 2009, a Bond Offshore Helicopters Eurocopter AS332 Super Puma ferrying workers from BP's platform in the Miller oilfield in the North Sea off Scotland crashed in good weather killing all 16 on board.[55][56]
2010: Deepwater Horizon oil spill
Main article: Deepwater Horizon oil spill
Anchor handling tugs combat the fire on the Deepwater Horizon while the United States Coast Guard searches for missing crew.
Public protest in New Orleans follwing the Deepwater Horizon oil spill.

On April 20, 2010, a semi-submersible exploratory offshore drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico exploded after a blowout and sank two days later, killing eleven people and causing a massive oil spill threatening the coast of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, and Florida. The rig is owned and operated by Transocean Ltd[57] on behalf of BP, which is the majority owner of the oil field. The company originally estimated the size of the leak at about 1,000 barrels a day but later accepted government estimates of a leak of at least 5,000 barrels per day (790 m3/d). On April 30, BP stated that it would harness all of its resources to battle the oil spill, spending $7 million a day with its partners to try to contain the disaster.[58] BP was running the well without a remote control shut-off switch used in two other major oil-producing nations, Brazil and Norway, as a last resort protection against underwater spills. The use of such devices is not mandated by U.S. regulators.[59] The U.S. Government gave the responsibility of the incident to BP and will hold it accountable for costs incurred in containing the situation.[60] On May 11, 2010, Congress called the executives of BP, Transocean, and Halliburton to a hearing regarding the oil spill. When probed for answers regarding the events leading up to the explosion, each company blamed the other. BP blamed Transocean who owned the rig, who then blamed the operators of the rig, BP. They also blamed Halliburton, who built the well casing.[61] Scientists have been requesting the right to monitor the amount of oil that is actually being released per day, but "'The answer is no to that,' a BP spokesman, Tom Mueller, said on Saturday, May 15. 'We're not going to take any extra efforts now to calculate flow there at this point. It's not relevant to the response effort, and it might even detract from the response effort.'"[62] Steven Wereley, an associate professor of mechanical engineering at Purdue University, analyzed videotape of the leak using particle image velocimetry and estimated oil flow rates at between 56,000 to 84,000 barrels per day (8,900 to 13,400 m3/d), or equivalent to one Exxon Valdez spill every 3.5 to 2.4 days.[63] A second, smaller leak has been estimated to be releasing 25,000 barrels per day (4,000 m3/d) by itself,[64] suggesting that the total size of the leak may well be in excess of 100,000 barrels per day and became the largest oil spill in US history.

Like Sarah Palin, I think the blame for oil corporations behaving so badly lays squarely on the shoulders of the Environmentalists; those environmentalist ner'do wells trying to protect and preserve the planet that GOD gave us to plunder.


[/okay so I lied, maybe a little more dripping sarcasm...]

[Jer]

Iscariot - calm the fuck down. You have a boner. We get it.

[iscariot]

Iscariot - calm the fuck down. You have a boner. We get it.

Sure. I'll send your mom home shortly...

[Jer]

Sure. I'll send your mom home shortly...

That's a coincidence: [ame="http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2886468#post2886468"]momz[/ame].

[Lone Star]

jer, on the other land, lost his boner when blurred decided to quit posting under his usual screen name.

[DasBlunt]

Sure. I'll send your mom home shortly...

I understand you comments are sarcastic and I agree with the sarcasm.

I am only stating what I read today about oil futures, because the government stepped in and halted new offshore claims rather than making new safety requirements. It is a bullshit move by the Obama administration that fucks up the next 10 years of price wars, that was keeping oil prices down, so new tech could continue to emerge.

When it is too late and people actually notice that Oil is really starting to run out, we can expect a much harder environment for energy change. Think WWIII and Armageddon.

Thank god we have a shit ton of coal in the USA. Some countries burn straight up diesel fuel for electricity.....fucking idiots.

[Tippster]

High oil prices will drive new tech much faster than keeping prices low.

[powdork]

Thank god we have a shit ton of coal in the USA. Some countries burn straight up diesel fuel for electricity.....fucking idiots.

Hey dumbfuck, Kirkwood is not a country.

[iscariot]

I am only stating what I read today about oil futures, because the government stepped in and halted new offshore claims rather than making new safety requirements.

Perhaps they want to take some time to figure out what those safety requirements are?

It is a bullshit move by the Obama administration that fucks up the next 10 years of price wars, that was keeping oil prices down, so new tech could continue to emerge.

When it is too late and people actually notice that Oil is really starting to run out, we can expect a much harder environment for energy change. Think WWIII and Armageddon.

High oil prices will drive new tech much faster than keeping prices low.

Exactly.

Thank god we have a shit ton of coal in the USA. Some countries burn straight up diesel fuel for electricity.....fucking idiots.

How DARE they burn YOUR GOD GIVEN diesel!!! Fucking idiots!!! I guess it pretty inconvenient that GOD buried all of America's oil in the middle east...

[DasBlunt]

High oil prices will drive new tech much faster than keeping prices low.

while on the surface that would appear to be true and I honestly and generally want to believe that, in reality I do not think so.

Things will go backward before moving forward in a end game scenario in that a true "past peak oil" situation would play out. How would greed not change? The feds fund stuff when they have the "extra" money to do so. When everyone is fighting for the last bits of super expensive oil, where is all the extra money? Just multiply that by 1000, and you have total chaos.

[Rip'nStick]

jer, on the other land, lost his boner when blurred decided to quit posting under his usual screen name.

Yeah, where is blurred

Digging ditches for telecom, you idiot

Ohh..Wait I get it ...but
Blurred could not possibly have the IQ of 144 that our esteemed maggot Jer does. Blurred is average IQ at best but puts on a good show. Jer is .... not as entertaining.