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Thread: Coal mine explosion in WV
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04-05-2010, 10:03 PM #1Registered User
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Coal mine explosion in WV
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/05/wes...ex.html?hpt=T1
Prayers to the families and those still trapped inside.
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04-05-2010, 11:18 PM #2
was it a "Clean" coal mine?
seriously though, vibes+
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04-06-2010, 06:25 AM #3Registered User
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update:
25 fatalities with 4 still missing.
I read an article not too long ago on the Sago mine explosion in '06 that kind of mapped out how these things happen and what goes on inside after an explosion.
http://www.mensjournal.com/down-in-the-sago-mine
I really can't imagine what these guys and their families are going through
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04-06-2010, 06:54 AM #4
Mining is not for the faint of heart.
Hoping for the best fort he 4 missing.As a snowboarder... i fucking hate snowboarders in general. -advres
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04-06-2010, 08:07 AM #5
Sad story. Serious work. How about instead of "clean coal" we focus a little bit on 'safe coal." I know like fishing risk will never come out of the game but seriously- how many times do we have to see a mine kill people and then hear about how shoddy the maintainence was at the mine before we get hard on sketchy mine owners. These companies have the sweetest deal. They are the onyl game in towns that are depressed and out of the way. They have free run. A real shame.
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04-06-2010, 09:26 AM #6
Or just forget about coal entirely and actually put some effort into wind, solor, geothermal etc.
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04-06-2010, 10:07 AM #7
HUDGE +++++VIBES+++++ FOR ALL THOSE WHO DIED OR THEIR LOVED ONES!!!
OK, with an appropriate time for grieving... [begin PolAss'ery] someone should kick in the skull of the fuck faces who run these disasters in waiting of mines... starting with GWB and his process of dismantling of the safety inspection rules and system.
West Virginia Mine EXPLOSION: Massey Energy Mine Had Scores Of Safety Citations
First Posted: 04- 6-10 10:35 AM | Updated: 04- 6-10 11:50 AM
MONTCOAL, W.Va. -- A huge underground explosion blamed on methane gas killed 25 coal miners in the worst U.S. mining disaster in more than two decades.
Four others were missing Tuesday, their chances of survival dimming as rescuers were held back by poison gases that accumulated near the blast site, about 1.5 miles from the entrance to Massey Energy Co.'s sprawling Upper Big Branch mine.
The mine, about 30 miles south of Charleston, has a significant history of safety violations, including 57 infractions just last month for (among other things) not properly ventilating the highly combustible methane.
ABC News reported:
The federal records catalog the problems at the Upper Big Branch mine, operated by the Performance Coal Company. They show the company was fighting many of the steepest fines, or simply refusing to pay them. Performance is a subsidiary of Massey Energy. [...]
The nation's sixth biggest mining company by production, Massey Energy took in $24 million in net income in the fourth quarter of 2009. The company paid what was then the largest financial settlement in the history of the coal industry for the 2006 fire at the Aracoma mine, also in West Virginia. The fire trapped 12 miners. Two suffocated as they looked for a way to escape. Aracoma later admitted in a plea agreement that two permanent ventilation controls had been removed in 2005 and not replaced, according to published reports.
...MORE OF STORY HERE...pmiP triD remroF
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04-06-2010, 10:17 AM #8
how about the seven coal miners killed in china daily? or the 7000 that died in 2002? nuts.
http://uk.reuters.com/news/video?vid...ideoChannel=75
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04-06-2010, 11:51 AM #9
Massey needs to GTFO. Having worked around these coal mines and known a lot of coal miners, I know how fucking messed up they are. Then they have shit like this happen every couple of years, and they just blow it off. Fuck Massey. So sad
I gots the jacket with the blue fox fur
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04-06-2010, 12:02 PM #10
Learn a bit about the Chinese coal industry and then you'll think we're safe. Seriously, they use about 10X the manpower to extract the same amount of coal, and have at least 10X the casualties. Still you're right and its no excuse for our standards not to be higher.
So the shitty reality is that due to our technological limitations, this isn't feasible. You cannot store or transport electricity efficiently enough for these to be viable solutions, not matter how many wind farms you have, there will still be plenty of large cities that use too much energy. They can only use energy from wind farms within a certain distance, because of the bleeding off of power that happens when electricity travels long distances.
And solar is just swell, but not for widespread use. There are relatively few places where the energy absorbed over the cell's lifetime will equal the cost of manufacture and clean up of the nasty chemicals that are in those things.
We should be putting money into researching these things as a priority, but the idea that we can give up on coal/nuclear and get by on wind solar and geothermal is just not based in reality. Maybe soon if batteries/power lines become more efficient, but not yet.
By the way, that was also one of the stupider lies Obama told to get elected, that we're going to get 40% of our energy from wind/solar/etc. It just isn't POSSIBLE right now.
Rest in peace miners. Thank you for your sacrifice and I'm sorry your employer did not value your lives.__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
"We don't need predator control, we need whiner control. Anyone who complains that "the gummint oughta do sumpin" about the wolves and coyotes should be darted, caged, and released in a more suitable habitat for them, like the middle of Manhattan." - Spats
"I'm constantly doing things I can't do. Thats how I get to do them." - Pablo Picasso
Cisco and his wife are fragile idiots who breed morons.
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04-06-2010, 02:07 PM #11
Coal is cheap, located in places without much political power (backwaters of nowhere), is profitable and not mined by arabs. Thus it's here to stay.
Doesn't mean we can't have safer mines or better safety systems.
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04-06-2010, 02:12 PM #12rain
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With the right mine and management, mining is pretty safe.
Actually mine safety regulations became much more stringent during GWB's presidency..It is a fact. Fine and penalty structures may have been weakened some, but those were efforts to open up a two way dialog between the agency and mine operators. Rather it worked or not is up for plenty of debate. With Obama, there is no longer some of the negotiation options open between the agency and the operators, so most operators have no choice but to contest the citations.
On that note, Fuck Massey. If their ever was a company that didn't learn from it's mistakes, and still needs union involvement, and needs to be butt fucked by the government, they are near the top of the list. They are also notorious for working young mining engineers to death and then throwing them under the bus to protect the company when they fuck something up.
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04-06-2010, 02:26 PM #13Registered User
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You've got to look to the root of Massey's problem.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Blankenship"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Blankenship[/ame]
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04-06-2010, 02:34 PM #14pmiP triD remroF
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04-06-2010, 03:37 PM #15rain
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You mean like this one that he signed into law June 16th 2006, 6 months after those articles were written?
Originally Posted by MSHA
It wasn't huge, but it was a step in the right direction, and one that no other administration had taken since the passing of the Mine act of 1977 that created MSHA.... Beleive it or not, when you're on the front lines of things like this, you can notice the impacts. Shocking, eh?
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04-06-2010, 03:45 PM #16
I'ma go with McP on this one.
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04-06-2010, 03:48 PM #17
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04-06-2010, 04:38 PM #18
I'm not sure if you are aware how things in the real world work.
Things typically start off expensive because of low demand/interest.
More people get interested and realize how they could benefit from said thing.
Said thing starts getting cheaper and better because more people want it, technology improves, and manufacturing said product becomes easier thanks to those idiots that paid an ungodly amount for it in the beginning.
Example: a VCR, what did they cost new? How long before damn near everyone with a TV had one? How much do they cost now? You can buy one at walmart for $20 that is better then the one you would have paid $300 for years ago, now they are obsolete.
Maybe the increase in energy costs is just what we need though, maybe then people would think about how to improve efficiency.
Think cars sold in the U.S. vs cars sold in Europe.
This is the land of entitlement, if people wanted cheap, zero impact energy, we would have it. In reality all people want is cheap energy, whatever the "cost"
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04-06-2010, 05:22 PM #19rain
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Quoted for comedy.
Problem here still is that it takes a lot of mined resources, just not coal, to create the infrastructure, rare earths, and superalloys that go into it all. I think it makes more sense to get the technology to a point where it is EFFECTIVE and CHEAP BEFORE we jump in with two feet. Imagine the power costs involved in recycling a useless wind turbine or (more likely) solar panel.....This isn't a VCR we're talking about...
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04-06-2010, 05:48 PM #20
What a nightmare. Heaven for those poor guys, vibes to their families. Hopefully the find those guys alive at the end of the tunnel.
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04-06-2010, 06:11 PM #21
Thanks... that's why I asked that question. I suspected you'd have something for me. (see below too)
But to both of you... and after reading up a bit on this... I think it's pretty clear it was the three high profile mine incidents in 2006 and the press coverage it received that stoked a public outcry for reform. To give Bush more credit than for just signing the bill at that point, and to overlook the screwed up mess his administration created until that point (which some even blame for those deaths), would be way wrong IMHO. I'll leave any more commentary on that for the PolAss.pmiP triD remroF
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04-06-2010, 06:23 PM #22
Not sure this needs to be politicized yet, Tim. Let's get the folks we think might still be alive out first, mmm'kay?
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04-06-2010, 07:33 PM #23yelgatgab
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Blankenship is the worst sort of scumbag, no doubt. Pile on the fact that Massey gets leverage from coal-friendly politicians like Manchin.
The problem in WV isn't a lack of political power, it's the fact that anybody that wants to be successful politically in WV has to accept the status quo (aka, be pro-coal) or not be a very successful politician.
McP is dead-on about safety. However, Massey will probably just use this incident to push their mountain top removal agenda, rather than accept it as a wake up call that underground conditions need to change. Hopefully some national pressure will provide the much needed push for some improvements.
My thoughts go out to the friends and family of these guys.Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.
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04-06-2010, 11:29 PM #24
Yep, nothing quite like a bunch of pretentious assholes waving hands about "economies of scale" and so on when talking about technologies reliant on substantial quantities of metals mined in a handful or fewer places on earth. Clueless. Best example: fuel cells and their fanboys.
Count me amongst those who pretty much ignorantly assume coal mining can still be profitable and useful while being a bunch safer than some of these WVa stories seem to imply.If you're a relatively moral, ethical person, there's no inherent drive to kiss ass and beg for forgiveness and promise to never do it again, which is what mostly goes on in church. -YetiMan
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04-07-2010, 01:18 PM #25
The newer superconductors are interesting, all though they aren't currently a good choice for long distances there are a number of good ideas as to how to get rid of the every mile refrigeration units. Some important people in Congress like them in dense urban settings so the $$ will be around for some time.
I had to deal with those fuckheads from Massey a few years back for work.....real shame that they can't see how this is bad for business.You're gonna stand there, owning a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistling bungholes, no spleen spliters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker donts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistling kitty chaser?
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