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  1. #1
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    Coal mine explosion in WV

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/05/wes...ex.html?hpt=T1

    Prayers to the families and those still trapped inside.

  2. #2
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    was it a "Clean" coal mine?

    seriously though, vibes+

  3. #3
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    update:
    25 fatalities with 4 still missing.

    I read an article not too long ago on the Sago mine explosion in '06 that kind of mapped out how these things happen and what goes on inside after an explosion.
    http://www.mensjournal.com/down-in-the-sago-mine

    I really can't imagine what these guys and their families are going through

  4. #4
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    Mining is not for the faint of heart.
    Hoping for the best fort he 4 missing.
    As a snowboarder... i fucking hate snowboarders in general. -advres

  5. #5
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    Sad story. Serious work. How about instead of "clean coal" we focus a little bit on 'safe coal." I know like fishing risk will never come out of the game but seriously- how many times do we have to see a mine kill people and then hear about how shoddy the maintainence was at the mine before we get hard on sketchy mine owners. These companies have the sweetest deal. They are the onyl game in towns that are depressed and out of the way. They have free run. A real shame.

  6. #6
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    Or just forget about coal entirely and actually put some effort into wind, solor, geothermal etc.

  7. #7
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    HUDGE +++++VIBES+++++ FOR ALL THOSE WHO DIED OR THEIR LOVED ONES!!!





















    OK, with an appropriate time for grieving... [begin PolAss'ery] someone should kick in the skull of the fuck faces who run these disasters in waiting of mines... starting with GWB and his process of dismantling of the safety inspection rules and system.

    West Virginia Mine EXPLOSION: Massey Energy Mine Had Scores Of Safety Citations

    First Posted: 04- 6-10 10:35 AM | Updated: 04- 6-10 11:50 AM

    MONTCOAL, W.Va. -- A huge underground explosion blamed on methane gas killed 25 coal miners in the worst U.S. mining disaster in more than two decades.

    Four others were missing Tuesday, their chances of survival dimming as rescuers were held back by poison gases that accumulated near the blast site, about 1.5 miles from the entrance to Massey Energy Co.'s sprawling Upper Big Branch mine.

    The mine, about 30 miles south of Charleston, has a significant history of safety violations, including 57 infractions just last month for (among other things) not properly ventilating the highly combustible methane.

    ABC News reported:

    The federal records catalog the problems at the Upper Big Branch mine, operated by the Performance Coal Company. They show the company was fighting many of the steepest fines, or simply refusing to pay them. Performance is a subsidiary of Massey Energy. [...]

    The nation's sixth biggest mining company by production, Massey Energy took in $24 million in net income in the fourth quarter of 2009. The company paid what was then the largest financial settlement in the history of the coal industry for the 2006 fire at the Aracoma mine, also in West Virginia. The fire trapped 12 miners. Two suffocated as they looked for a way to escape. Aracoma later admitted in a plea agreement that two permanent ventilation controls had been removed in 2005 and not replaced, according to published reports.

    ...MORE OF STORY HERE...
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  8. #8
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    how about the seven coal miners killed in china daily? or the 7000 that died in 2002? nuts.
    http://uk.reuters.com/news/video?vid...ideoChannel=75

  9. #9
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    Massey needs to GTFO. Having worked around these coal mines and known a lot of coal miners, I know how fucking messed up they are. Then they have shit like this happen every couple of years, and they just blow it off. Fuck Massey. So sad
    I gots the jacket with the blue fox fur

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by lionelhutz View Post
    Sad story. Serious work. How about instead of "clean coal" we focus a little bit on 'safe coal." I know like fishing risk will never come out of the game but seriously- how many times do we have to see a mine kill people and then hear about how shoddy the maintainence was at the mine before we get hard on sketchy mine owners. These companies have the sweetest deal. They are the onyl game in towns that are depressed and out of the way. They have free run. A real shame.
    Learn a bit about the Chinese coal industry and then you'll think we're safe. Seriously, they use about 10X the manpower to extract the same amount of coal, and have at least 10X the casualties. Still you're right and its no excuse for our standards not to be higher.

    Quote Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
    Or just forget about coal entirely and actually put some effort into wind, solor, geothermal etc.
    So the shitty reality is that due to our technological limitations, this isn't feasible. You cannot store or transport electricity efficiently enough for these to be viable solutions, not matter how many wind farms you have, there will still be plenty of large cities that use too much energy. They can only use energy from wind farms within a certain distance, because of the bleeding off of power that happens when electricity travels long distances.

    And solar is just swell, but not for widespread use. There are relatively few places where the energy absorbed over the cell's lifetime will equal the cost of manufacture and clean up of the nasty chemicals that are in those things.

    We should be putting money into researching these things as a priority, but the idea that we can give up on coal/nuclear and get by on wind solar and geothermal is just not based in reality. Maybe soon if batteries/power lines become more efficient, but not yet.

    By the way, that was also one of the stupider lies Obama told to get elected, that we're going to get 40% of our energy from wind/solar/etc. It just isn't POSSIBLE right now.





    Rest in peace miners. Thank you for your sacrifice and I'm sorry your employer did not value your lives.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ________________
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  11. #11
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    Coal is cheap, located in places without much political power (backwaters of nowhere), is profitable and not mined by arabs. Thus it's here to stay.
    Doesn't mean we can't have safer mines or better safety systems.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derider View Post
    Mining is not for the faint of heart.
    Hoping for the best fort he 4 missing.
    With the right mine and management, mining is pretty safe.

    Quote Originally Posted by mock vomit View Post
    HUDGE +++++VIBES+++++ FOR ALL THOSE WHO DIED OR THEIR LOVED ONES!!!
    OK, with an appropriate time for grieving... [begin PolAss'ery] someone should kick in the skull of the fuck faces who run these disasters in waiting of mines... starting with GWB and his process of dismantling of the safety inspection rules and system.
    Actually mine safety regulations became much more stringent during GWB's presidency..It is a fact. Fine and penalty structures may have been weakened some, but those were efforts to open up a two way dialog between the agency and mine operators. Rather it worked or not is up for plenty of debate. With Obama, there is no longer some of the negotiation options open between the agency and the operators, so most operators have no choice but to contest the citations.

    On that note, Fuck Massey. If their ever was a company that didn't learn from it's mistakes, and still needs union involvement, and needs to be butt fucked by the government, they are near the top of the list. They are also notorious for working young mining engineers to death and then throwing them under the bus to protect the company when they fuck something up.

  13. #13
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    You've got to look to the root of Massey's problem.

    [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Blankenship"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Blankenship[/ame]

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by P_McPoser View Post
    ...Actually mine safety regulations became much more stringent during GWB's presidency..It is a fact. Fine and penalty structures may have been weakened some, but those were efforts to open up a two way dialog between the agency and mine operators. Rather it worked or not is up for plenty of debate. With Obama, there is no longer some of the negotiation options open between the agency and the operators, so most operators have no choice but to contest the citations...
    So... how does that square against the following from the the time of the last larger mining disaster a few years ago?

    Quote Originally Posted by on Jan 4 2006
    Administration Neglected Coal Mining Safety

    Bloomberg reveals:

    Federal authorities issued 21 citations last year for a build-up of combustible materials at the West Virginia mine where 12 men died, according to U.S. Labor Department statistics.

    The mining explosion should call attention to the Bush administration’s inadequate enforcement of federal mining safety regulations. Mining safety in the U.S. has improved dramatically since the Mining Safety and Health Act was signed in 1977. By the time that President Clinton signed the International Labor Organization’s Convention 176 concerning safety and health in mines, mining deaths dropped from 425 in 1970 to 85 in 2000.

    Phil Smith, the communications director for the United Mine Workers of America, said that while citations have been issued, the fines assessed for safety violations are too small to force large corporations to make improvements. “The problem with the current laws is enforcement.” According to an AFL-CIO analysis, the Bush administration cut 170 positions from federal Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA) and has not proposed a single new mine-safety standard or rule during its tenure.

    And there's a reason for that. The Washington Post reported that West Virginia coal firms raised $275,000 for Bush.

    Last September, Bush rewarded the coal industry by placing coal industry veteran Richard Stickler in charge of MSHA. Stickler spent about 30 years as a coal company manager with Beth Energy. Mines managed by Stickler were marked by worker injury rates that were double the national average, according to government data cited by the United Mine Workers union.

    ...

    http://thinkprogress.org/2006/01/04/coal-mining/
    Quote Originally Posted by on Jan 3 2006
    ...

    Additionally, many regulations aimed specifically at mine safety have been eroded or done away with under the Bush administration
    , including a 2000 rule titled "Escapeways and Refuges." The rule required all mines to have at least two separate exit paths but was altered shortly after Bush took office by then MSHA head David Lauriski.

    Lauriski, a former mining-company official who took over MSHA in 2001 and resigned at the end of Bush's first term, pulled the rule "in light of resource constraints and changing safety and health regulatory priorities," according to official data compiled by the government watchdog OMB Watch. The regulation is one of seventeen aimed at making mining less dangerous undone by MSHA since 2001.

    http://newstandardnews.net/content/?...em&itemid=2721
    Quote Originally Posted by on Jan 3 2006
    ...

    The fact is that President Bush has not requested budgets for OSHA or MSHA that even keep up with the rate of inflation and mandatory pay increases over the past several years while penalties for OSHA or MSHA violations remain laughably low. The highest penalty of the more than 200 citations received last year by the Sago mine was $878. But that was the exception. Most of the others were $250 or $60. At that rate, it's hardly a good business decision to even bother fixing anything. And the administration has shut down any new worker protection standards in OSHA and MSHA.

    http://spewingforth.blogspot.com/200...-disaster.html
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mock vomit View Post
    So... how does that square against the following from the the time of the last larger mining disaster a few years ago?
    You mean like this one that he signed into law June 16th 2006, 6 months after those articles were written?
    Quote Originally Posted by MSHA
    The Mine Improvement and New Emergency Response Act of 2006, also known as the MINER Act, was signed by President George W. Bush on June 16th, 2006. This legislation, the most significant mine safety legislation in 30 years, amends the Mine Safety and Health Act of 1977 and contains a number of provisions to improve safety and health in America's mines.
    http://www.msha.gov/MinerAct/2006mineract.pdf
    It wasn't huge, but it was a step in the right direction, and one that no other administration had taken since the passing of the Mine act of 1977 that created MSHA.... Beleive it or not, when you're on the front lines of things like this, you can notice the impacts. Shocking, eh?

  16. #16
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    I'ma go with McP on this one.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
    Or just forget about coal entirely and actually put some effort into wind, solor, geothermal etc.
    fuck skiing, all your money will now be used to pay off your energy bills
    holy fucking shitballs

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by legallyillegal View Post
    fuck skiing, all your money will now be used to pay off your energy bills
    I'm not sure if you are aware how things in the real world work.

    Things typically start off expensive because of low demand/interest.

    More people get interested and realize how they could benefit from said thing.

    Said thing starts getting cheaper and better because more people want it, technology improves, and manufacturing said product becomes easier thanks to those idiots that paid an ungodly amount for it in the beginning.

    Example: a VCR, what did they cost new? How long before damn near everyone with a TV had one? How much do they cost now? You can buy one at walmart for $20 that is better then the one you would have paid $300 for years ago, now they are obsolete.

    Maybe the increase in energy costs is just what we need though, maybe then people would think about how to improve efficiency.

    Think cars sold in the U.S. vs cars sold in Europe.

    This is the land of entitlement, if people wanted cheap, zero impact energy, we would have it. In reality all people want is cheap energy, whatever the "cost"

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by karpiel View Post
    I'm not sure if you are aware how things in the real world work.
    Quoted for comedy.

    Problem here still is that it takes a lot of mined resources, just not coal, to create the infrastructure, rare earths, and superalloys that go into it all. I think it makes more sense to get the technology to a point where it is EFFECTIVE and CHEAP BEFORE we jump in with two feet. Imagine the power costs involved in recycling a useless wind turbine or (more likely) solar panel.....This isn't a VCR we're talking about...

  20. #20
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    What a nightmare. Heaven for those poor guys, vibes to their families. Hopefully the find those guys alive at the end of the tunnel.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by P_McPoser View Post
    You mean like this one that he signed into law June 16th 2006, 6 months after those articles were written?

    http://www.msha.gov/MinerAct/2006mineract.pdf
    It wasn't huge, but it was a step in the right direction, and one that no other administration had taken since the passing of the Mine act of 1977 that created MSHA.... Beleive it or not, when you're on the front lines of things like this, you can notice the impacts. Shocking, eh?
    Thanks... that's why I asked that question. I suspected you'd have something for me. (see below too)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tippster View Post
    I'ma go with McP on this one.
    But to both of you... and after reading up a bit on this... I think it's pretty clear it was the three high profile mine incidents in 2006 and the press coverage it received that stoked a public outcry for reform. To give Bush more credit than for just signing the bill at that point, and to overlook the screwed up mess his administration created until that point (which some even blame for those deaths), would be way wrong IMHO. I'll leave any more commentary on that for the PolAss.
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  22. #22
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    Not sure this needs to be politicized yet, Tim. Let's get the folks we think might still be alive out first, mmm'kay?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by davefromwv View Post
    You've got to look to the root of Massey's problem.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Blankenship
    Blankenship is the worst sort of scumbag, no doubt. Pile on the fact that Massey gets leverage from coal-friendly politicians like Manchin.

    The problem in WV isn't a lack of political power, it's the fact that anybody that wants to be successful politically in WV has to accept the status quo (aka, be pro-coal) or not be a very successful politician.

    McP is dead-on about safety. However, Massey will probably just use this incident to push their mountain top removal agenda, rather than accept it as a wake up call that underground conditions need to change. Hopefully some national pressure will provide the much needed push for some improvements.

    My thoughts go out to the friends and family of these guys.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by P_McPoser View Post
    Problem here still is that it takes a lot of mined resources, just not coal, to create the infrastructure, rare earths, and superalloys that go into it all.
    Yep, nothing quite like a bunch of pretentious assholes waving hands about "economies of scale" and so on when talking about technologies reliant on substantial quantities of metals mined in a handful or fewer places on earth. Clueless. Best example: fuel cells and their fanboys.

    Count me amongst those who pretty much ignorantly assume coal mining can still be profitable and useful while being a bunch safer than some of these WVa stories seem to imply.
    If you're a relatively moral, ethical person, there's no inherent drive to kiss ass and beg for forgiveness and promise to never do it again, which is what mostly goes on in church. -YetiMan

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by leroy jenkins View Post
    They can only use energy from wind farms within a certain distance, because of the bleeding off of power that happens when electricity travels long distances.
    The newer superconductors are interesting, all though they aren't currently a good choice for long distances there are a number of good ideas as to how to get rid of the every mile refrigeration units. Some important people in Congress like them in dense urban settings so the $$ will be around for some time.

    I had to deal with those fuckheads from Massey a few years back for work.....real shame that they can't see how this is bad for business.
    You're gonna stand there, owning a fireworks stand, and tell me you don't have no whistling bungholes, no spleen spliters, whisker biscuits, honkey lighters, hoosker doos, hoosker donts, cherry bombs, nipsy daisers, with or without the scooter stick, or one single whistling kitty chaser?

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