Am I getting screwed? vehicle repair

[hartzejr]

Normally, I don't post this stuff but I had a seemingly $50-$250 fix just turn into a $1000 fix. Any gearheads out there that could offer advice would be greatly appreciated.

My brakes have been heating up in the past few weeks, smoking and smelling. So I took it to Midas (maybe thats my problem). All my research led me to believe that the calipers were sticking and often times you could clean out an obstruction and things would be fine. Worst case I was figuring was I'd have to replace the one caliper and pad.

But I had my calipers and pads replaced about two years ago.

Now they tell me the rotors are under Fords minimum thickness and legally they cannot work on them at all without replacing the rotors.
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What course of action should I take?

Vehicle is 2004 F-150. Just broke 75,000mi.

[SorryBro]

Over time rotors do need to be replaced. My rotors on my 80k F-150 were fine last check (70k) miles, but I have a 2001, so probably a different system.

I would get a recommendation from a friend about a different brake place (local mechanics seem to be better than big chain stores in my experience). Good luck.

[Hutch]

I think Midas shops tend to overcharge. Better to find an independent guy that someone you know trusts based on their experiences.

How about looking up the minimum thickness yourself (I found this: http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/83...em-fronts.html) and then having them show you how they measure the rotor thickness in their shop?

You can buy rotors/pads yourself probably for less than Midas will charge you and then pay a mechanic to install.

[hartzejr]

Contacted a long time local for their local guy. Called Dean and right away I had a better feeling and not just because I might save money. Midas is taking it off the rack as we speak and I'm dropping 'er by Deans today for a second opinion.

I'll prolly grab some calipers from the office and try a quick measurement of my own just in case.

Thanks for the tips/links.

[frozenwater]

My recent ah shit my brakes are bad quick fix them on a saturday story goes as follows:

1- Took it to Les Schwab, quoted $1,300.00 need all new rotors, calipers, pads

2- shit pants

3- Took it to Pep Boys literaly next door (it was getting late and dammit I needed my brakes fixed) $250.00 My rotors were fine, he measured and showed me. Calipers were fine, just needed 4 pads and I got an oil change.

I would get a second opinion.

[krp8128]

Guys who take there vehicles in to have pads and rotors changed should turn in your man cards....

Takes me about 30 minutes in the driveway using the shitty emergency jack that came with the car, and I can put premium parts on for less then you pay for base quality at a shop.

To the OP, yes, you were getting screwed. Hopefully the new guy is more reasonable.

[Hutch]

Guys who take there vehicles in to have pads and rotors changed should turn in your man cards....

Takes me about 30 minutes in the driveway using the shitty emergency jack that came with the car, and I can put premium parts on for less then you pay for base quality at a shop.

... says the unemployed mechanical engineer.

[krp8128]

... says the unemployed mechanical engineer.

Good point.


hartzejr,

Send me $1000 via paypal and I'll fly out there and take care of things for you.

[khakis]

dig up the receipt for your last caliper/pad replacement. Most of that stuff carries a lifetime warranty these days. Not unlikely for the rotors to be at their minimum thickness either, since the tv-ad ripoff places like to turn them with every service.

Also, sounds like you might need to learn how to downshift...

[El Chupacabra]

Guys who take there vehicles in to have pads and rotors changed should turn in your man cards....

Takes me about 30 minutes in the driveway using the shitty emergency jack that came with the car, and I can put premium parts on for less then you pay for base quality at a shop.

Some 4WD vehicles require that the front hubs be disassembled in order to remove the brake rotors, and while you have them disassembled, it's a good time to repack the bearings. This makes for a much messier job -- though $1000+ is still outrageous to me.

Unit-bearing (i.e. not serviceable bearings) hubs are a lot easier; just remove the calipers and support (tie them up to take the load off the brake hoses), remove & replace old rotors, remove & replace old pads, reassemble. Then flush the entire brake system so you have new fluid throughout (a bit time-consuming; helps if you have speed bleeders (google them) or a helper to sit in the vehicle and pump the brakes for you.

I can't do a complete 4-wheel brake replacement job in 30 minutes though. It's a half-day job in the driveway for me, and that's with a big floor jack and air tools.

[krp8128]

30 minutes per axle, on a car.


Forgot how much of a PITA disassembling front hubs can be....

[DoWork]

Here's a tip I gave one of my ruhtard friends that can't change their own brakes... If your brakes are sticking they probably just need to have the caliper pistons pushed back in with a C-clamp while your brake fluid cap is off. Chances are it will be worth it to change your rotors at the same time as they're cheap and the most important thing on your truck.

1). Go to Auto Zone, etc. and get all the pads and rotors for your car.
2). Bandage hand as if there was some gruesome accident recently.
3). Go to local shop and tell them you normally do your own brakes but fucked up your hand- any way he could help you out because you already have the parts?

You should get a better deal, and local dudes will be less likely to assrape you if they think you know what you're talking about.

[krp8128]

Here's a tip I gave one of my ruhtard friends that can't change their own brakes... If your brakes are sticking they probably just need to have the caliper pistons pushed back in with a C-clamp while your brake fluid cap is off. Chances are it will be worth it to change your rotors at the same time as they're cheap and the most important thing on your truck.

I have heard that this can damage ABS components that are between the caliper and the cap. If I have to push the pistons back (almost always when changing pads) I open the bleeder valve at the caliper.

My chevy has some retarded rear caliper pistons that screw back into the caliper.

[sidewall]

That's bullshit for a brake repair. Sounds like you need new pads/rotors. I would think working on a truck would be pretty easy due to it being high off the ground and larger parts. Consider the DIY route, it isn't hard.

[dk_alaskan]

Hartz, if you need help with your brakes, shoot me a pm.

[phUnk]

dig up the receipt for your last caliper/pad replacement. Most of that stuff carries a lifetime warranty these days. Not unlikely for the rotors to be at their minimum thickness either, since the tv-ad ripoff places like to turn them with every service.

Why would pads come with a lifetime warranty? They're a wear item.

hartzejr: Why did you need new calipers before? Do you mean you got new rotors (the big shiny round things) and pads two years?

[krp8128]

A lot of pads have lifetime (usually a single new set) replacement warranty. I bought Wagner last time around, they cost a little more upfront but it is like getting 2 sets.

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/web...rantybrakes___

[hartzejr]

Well, I'm a mechanical engineer too but I do have a job. Fucked up huh krp8128? I just have never really worked on my vehicles short of basic maintenance. Prolly get a lot of guff for that, heh.

Last time I had my brakes worked on was a while ago. I forgot exactly what they did but I thought they replaced my calipers. Chances are they fucked me like Midas it trying to do now. I don't recall any specific reason. I might have a receipt for it but a lot of stuff got lost/trashed before my moved up here.

I'm going to look at the diy route too.

[DoWork]

I have heard that this can damage ABS components that are between the caliper and the cap. If I have to push the pistons back (almost always when changing pads) I open the bleeder valve at the caliper.

Never had a problem doing it that way, just watch so you can take some off the top with a turkey baster before it erupts on your master cylinder, etc... Speaking of which, I don't mess with the bleeder valve simply because a) I don't want to make a mess on my work area b) don't like to introduce any kind of break in the line, I'd hate to get a bubble in there which happened to a friend of mine- he was driving along and went to stop at a big intersection and WHAM, pedal goes to the floor. Thank God he was on the E-brake fast enough to avoid a major collision, but to answer your question I've never had a problem, and that's probably 50 or so brake jobs into it.

[krp8128]

My father has been doing the same ting as you with no issues so far, but fucking up some of the ABS valving sounds like a legit possibility so I use one of those cheepo vacuum bleeders to apply a little suction before opening the bleeder. Make it really handy to bleed too, when required.

[DoWork]

My father has been doing the same ting as you with no issues so far, but fucking up some of the ABS valving sounds like a legit possibility so I use one of those cheepo vacuum bleeders to apply a little suction before opening the bleeder. Make it really handy to bleed too, when required.

Thanks for your purchase, I'm head of marketing at cheapo vacuum bleeders Inc, and I've been circulating that rumor for years, it's been making us a mint!

[krp8128]

Hey, I do what i can to support small business!

[XXX-er]

Here's a tip I gave one of my ruhtard friends that can't change their own brakes... If your brakes are sticking they probably just need to have the caliper pistons pushed back in with a C-clamp while your brake fluid cap is off. Chances are it will be worth it to change your rotors at the same time as they're cheap and the most important thing on your truck.

1). Go to Auto Zone, etc. and get all the pads and rotors for your car.
2). Bandage hand as if there was some gruesome accident recently.
3). Go to local shop and tell them you normally do your own brakes but fucked up your hand- any way he could help you out because you already have the parts?

You should get a better deal, and local dudes will be less likely to assrape you if they think you know what you're talking about.

On my subaru (probably lots of suby owners here )if you did that you would fuck the caliper because you need to rotate the piston while you pushed it back in to reset the auto adjusters in the piston AND in a hydralic brake system doesnt the pistons just come back out and stay out the 1st time you use the brakes ?

YMMV but my strategey is to play the clueless customer , let a shop or salesman or service writer think I know absolutely nothing about cars or whatever they are selling ... how much they shit you will tell you how much to trust them

so bulshit me, write me a quote and I will be back on payday ... which never comes

My 1st wife had big tits , shop guys used to fall over each other trying to help her and doing free shit during loss leader oil changes ... I told her to ask for a quote and she will be back on payday


BTW ,do you play poker,I don t but I sure would like to learn the game ?

[uglymoney]

On my subaru (probably lots of suby owners here )if you did that you would fuck the caliper because you need to rotate the piston while you pushed it back in to reset the auto adjusters in the piston AND in a hydralic brake system doesnt the pistons just come back out and stay out the 1st time you use the brakes ?

You don't have to rotate the pistons front or back on my 02. Push them in with a c-clamp. Changing the rotors and pads is simple as pie. E-brake pads on the back is a little more work. Some cars do have pistons that need to be rotated and it is a major pia - with the old Ford rear calipers it was a better idea to buy reman calipers with pads loaded and install them. If you're doing it yourself it is cheap enough to do it that way anyway.

Stuck calipers that won't back off often means you need new rubber brake lines at that wheel(s). You don't even have to change the pads and rotors or calipers to get the fix. Just pull the brake hoses, reinstall and bleed.

Rotor changes and rotor machining are a big source of income for tire change shops but most of the time they are unneeded parts and service. Unless the rotors are severely rusted or warped enough to cause my pedal to vibrate at an annoying level I just leave them be. On old cars that are on their last days I've used severely grooved rotors with no ill effect on braking.

Learning to do your disc brakes is easy and saves a shit ton of money. So easy to do. $200 in parts can save you from dropping $1200 on a ripoff brake job. It might be a half day job for a first timer but after that a guy should be able to do an axle and hour without even breaking a sweat. With real tools (air and electric impact wrenches and hydraulic floor jack) its fifteen minutes per wheel to change the pads and rotors on my Subaru.

Good luck.

[hartzejr]

Just got the report from Dean's. All the parts looked good to the naked eye. Caliper seemed to be sticking so they cleaned and lubed it up. They said bring it back if it has any further issues. That's what I was figuring from the start.

They're charging me half hour for time.

Dean's Automotive Services of Anchorage. Highly recommend these guys!
Midas... Although I understand that's their business, its just sad they couldn't be honest and/or corporate policy forces them to not be honest.

And thanks Mags for the input/help. You all never cease to amaze me!