Ski Review: ON3P Billy Goats 176

[cramp]

Ski review: ON3P – Billy Goats (176)

Caveat: This is still a somewhat preliminary ski review since I just had my first afternoon on these skis in a quite limited environment both snow-wise as well as terrain-wise.

Skier:

Age: 42
height: 173 cm
weight: 60kg (should translate into low 120ish pounds)

Skiing abilities: I learned skiing in the early 1970ies and I am still trying to overcome my old school (Austrian-Arlberg) approach. My skiing is in general quite defensive due to age and knees, more often than not shitty pants, no cliff hucking etc.

Ski set up: Dynastar ST, Dynafit Zzeus

(recent) ski history: Bro Model Lhasa Pow, Dynastar Legend Pro, Kneissl Tanker, Dynastar Legend 8000, some Voelkl ski de randonèe

Snow conditions during the test: ridiculous wet snow, some tracked off-piste, partly bumps covered by about 10cm of new, wet snow, on piste was almost like spring skiing

Location: Puy de St. Vincent (France)

So how does the Billy Goats ski and feel?

In short: After just a few turns I did know that I liked this ski. Indeed I like it very much. Funny and easy-going are possible the very best characterisations of these skis.

In more detail: I was skiing the Lhasa Pow in the morning. After changing to the Billy Goats it was first a somewhat weird feeling since it seems that the bindings are at a somewhat more central position on the Bgs (or maybe this feeling is due to the BGs being twin tips and me not being used to twintips). However, after just a few turns it became clear that the BGs are $$$. They are extremely easygoing. It is possible to change your rhythm (between short and longer turns) without almost any efforts. At least for my defensive style, there seems to be no real speed limit and it is quite easy to reduce the speed. The skis turn ridiculously easy. Though they are somewhat heavier than e.g. the Lhasa Pow the effort for short turns is rather lower than with the Lhasa. Just a very preliminary comparison: the Lhasa seems to be the more „serious“ off-piste ski while the BG seems to be the more „fun“ ski.

Due to the shitty snow and weather conditions (extremely foggy with a low visibility even in the woods) I still have rather limited off-piste experience on these skis. I did some cruises in wet snow. I am pretty sure that with most other skis I would not liked these conditions. But with the BGs even such a shitty snow was extremely funny as well (I was laughing silently while skiing this snow).

(Soft) bumps (covered by about 10cm of fresh, wet snow) were fun too and much easier than I had expected.

Conclusion:

I bought the Billy Goats more by „accident“ than by intent (I immediately fell in love with the awesome design and I like the story of Scott and ON3P and thought it worthwhile to support Scott and is theme. Just a personal „industrial policy„ story . Now, I am 120 % sure that purchasing the Billy Goats was a wise decision. This ski makes skiing even more fun that it already is. I am still not sure about the “division of labor” between the BGs and the Lhasa Pow but I think about using the Lhasa more for (longer) touring and wide, open terrain and the BGs for woody terrain. I am pretty sure that this is the perfect ski for the usually dense woods in my local hills around Vienna.

P.S.: I will update this review once I encounter different (hopefully better) snow and weather conditions. As of the writing of this review the sky is already clearing but the Col du Lautaret (and hence our road to La Grave) is still closed.

[verbier61]

interesting, thanks. I've had similar feelings on soft snow with the 176 BG (supereasy, fun ski), but some trouble on hard snow (too turny.....), so I'm just curious to know how you will find them in more variable conditions

[noparking]

My 186 kill it in every condition, while on hard pact snow you just need to remember to keep your weight forward.

[verbier61]

My 186 kill it in every condition, while on hard pact snow you just need to remember to keep your weight forward.

I'm not sure is SO easy.....

[DoWork]

I tried the 176 BGs this weekend for the first time in some 8-10" deep fluff and lemme tell you two things about the ski

1). IT KILLS IT IN POW!!! Never in my life have I skied on something so easy to pivot, so effortless to tturn in deep pow and so compliant... Hands down the best ski I've even been on for tight, technical lines in steep pow. Love them! They are the best pow ski for the woods I've ever tried, hands way WAY down. The design also makes it easy to stomp the shit out of landings, with the stiff pintail and the big, soft shovel up front. I loved hucking them, as they were just so predictable. Total finesse ski.

2). They suck on groomers/hard stuff and are impossible to rail in such conditions. I'll try them again after the tips and tails get a smidge detuned, but they were probably the squirreliest ski I've ever felt on the hard stuff. Good thing I spend very little time on the groomed while I have them so who gives a shit, right? I sure don't.

Keep up the great work guys- they fuckin rock absolutely KILL IT in the steep and deep.

[cramp]

so I'm just curious to know how you will find them in more variable conditions

Today we encountered such variable conditions in La Grave (windpacked cold snow higher up, crusty with soft snow beneath the crust layer around 2300m and icy bumps in the woods). However, I sticked to the Lhasas for the whole day (which were stellar btw). I am thinking about testing the BGs in these conditions tomorrow. If so I am going to report my experience with them.

[kidwoo]

I am thinking about testing the BGs in these conditions tomorrow. If so I am going to report my experience with them.

Do it.


65464

[bl2000]

I tried the 176 BGs... 1). IT KILLS IT IN POW!!! ... 2). They suck on groomers/hard stuff and are impossible to rail in such conditions. I'll try them again after the tips and tails get a smidge detuned, but they were probably the squirreliest ski I've ever felt on the hard stuff...

I had the exact same reaction when I tried these.

Scott: I put the skis base to base and looked down the barrel of the gun, so to speak, and noticed NO light. NONE. Zilch. That's a first for me. It looks like there's zero base bevel. Is that what was intended? I'll bevel the edges about 3" both in front and back of the widest point, which I think will calm things down. But, a 1 degree base bevel might help. Unfortunately, I'm about 2,000 miles and 4 weeks away from the skis, so can't experiment now.

[iggyskier]

I had the exact same reaction when I tried these.

Scott: I put the skis base to base and looked down the barrel of the gun, so to speak, and noticed NO light. NONE. Zilch. That's a first for me. It looks like there's zero base bevel. Is that what was intended? I'll bevel the edges about 3" both in front and back of the widest point, which I think will calm things down. But, a 1 degree base bevel might help. Unfortunately, I'm about 2,000 miles and 4 weeks away from the skis, so can't experiment now.

They definitely shouldn't be flat, and that is the first time I've heard of a pair of 176cm BGs being that way. I know some 186cm BGs went out that way, but it was early on and everything beyond them should have been done correctly....I guess one of the positives from Sam no longer working here is that we've been able to standardize the finishing better now that one person is doing it all....but that just shouldn't be the case regardless. Pretty frustrating.

They will definitely be easier to ski with correctly beveled edges. The detune helps the grabiness and will help prevent the taper from wanting to engage. Because the skis are so turny, when you are on hard stuff, the skis are more comfortable on edge than not. But you do need to manage what edge you are engaging and with the tiny turn radius, you end up making a lot of turns.

It has been pretty interesting to see the extremes experienced on the ski. It either seems people have little to no issues, or tons of issues and just find the skis miserable on anything hard. I would never grab the BGs for a hardpack day, and my style is way more suited for the wrens anyway, but I never had issues getting them on edge and carving, but I know what the limits are when I ski them, so my transition to them is pretty easy. I definitely cannot rip groomers on them like I can the wrens, so I just end up making more turns, and everything works out. I know exactly where I need to be balanced and driving the ski too, so I am sure it is just easier for me to step into a pair and go.

impossible to rail in such conditions

They will definitely never rail race-style turns on hard stuff. There just is no way with the sidecut and taper as it is. Where they were meant to excel is in anything soft and tight, which you can obviously tell, but it is pretty obvious I need to work on improving their performance on hard stuff. Going to be a few more weeks before I am able to get a few different pairs on snow with some new adjustments. My priority is still going to be towards soft snow/pow performance. I would rather have them suck on hard stuff and kill it in the soft than lose some of the soft snow performance for better carving on hardpack. If hard snow performance is really a concern, the wren and new vicik are both better options for sure.

Anyway, sounds like it will be another month before you get back on them, but once you do with a correct bevel, let me know if there hardpack performance is improved at all.

[bl2000]

I have a good file to fix the edge bevel, but if the bases are at 0, I can't easily change that. I'll check again when I return to Utah with a straight edge and make 100% sure. If the bases aren't at 1, should I first run them through a grinder?

[iggyskier]

I have a good file to fix the edge bevel, but if the bases are at 0, I can't easily change that. I'll check again when I return to Utah with a straight edge and make 100% sure. If the bases aren't at 1, should I first run them through a grinder?

running out the door to drop off a bunch of skis, but I will shoot you a PM when I get back.

[DoWork]

They will definitely never rail race-style turns on hard stuff. There just is no way with the sidecut and taper as it is. Where they were meant to excel is in anything soft and tight, which you can obviously tell, but it is pretty obvious I need to work on improving their performance on hard stuff. Going to be a few more weeks before I am able to get a few different pairs on snow with some new adjustments. My priority is still going to be towards soft snow/pow performance. I would rather have them suck on hard stuff and kill it in the soft than lose some of the soft snow performance for better carving on hardpack. If hard snow performance is really a concern, the wren and new vicik are both better options for sure.

Agreed 100%. I never expected it to be remotely palatable on hardpack and wouldn't touch it besides to check the edge bevels and maybe mess with them a bit to make it a little less squirrelly on the runouts. It absolutely axe-murders soft pow tho, and that's its #1 priority in life so job well done dood! I wasn't trying to knock the ski, I was just trying to give an unbiased assessment as best I could. I didn't do justice to the ski's pow performance tho. That can only be experienced by blasting a pair through some steep ass woods, dropping a nice cliff line and stomping em out of a landing to keep on ripping... This ski is magic!

Hands down best ski I've ever been on for woods like these...

dowork again

I love my trees. Thanks for making a product that does too. Fuck the runouts- keep the emphasis on steep, deep and technical.

[cramp]

Today I had the chance to use the BGs in quite a variety of snow and terrain.

Snow conditions was ranging from windpacked snow, some soft powder and finally one hardpacked (but no icy) on-piste run back to the car.

Terrain was ranging from wide open slopes (no steeps), perfect woods (the woods seemingly designed by a skier) and a creekbed. The on-piste run was in the mellow, cruising range.

And finally we did some skinning as well. However, no real kickturns were involved (mostly traversing up over mellow to moderately steep terrain). Skinning performance seems to be quite good. No problems with the width and I would guess that kicksturns should not pose any problems.

The BGs truly excel in soft conditions, especially in the trees. I loved cruising the windpacked snow on the BGs as well though I probably would have enjoyed these sort of snow even more with the Lhasas.

Performance on the groomed run (hardpack) was o.k. meaning it was enjoyable but certainly not was intended with these skis. I felt the BGs a little bit "flattering" and giving no assurance at higher speeds. However, this is not really a disadvantage since a) they are designed for powder and b) it was not really a hindrance.

My love for these skis has been certainly deepened today.

[kidwoo]

Thanks for updating.


Sounds like I'll be pretty stoked when I get mine.

[BBskier]

Skis look really sick, cant wait to try some. Keep up the good work.

[bl2000]

ON3P's customer service has been raved about before, but I just want to add that Scott has been totally helpful about getting the tune on mine corrected. The way only a small company can (unless you're connected).

[kidwoo]

ON3P's customer service has been raved about before, but I just want to add that Scott has been totally helpful about getting the tune on mine corrected. The way only a small company can (unless you're connected).

So better on hardpack with the new tune?

[BoatBound]

I am not a fan of rockered tails, just how much is on these? I am very intrigued about them. In another thread there was a bit of debate of the actual length of these. I am assuming at 6' 170, I would go with a 86?

[DoWork]

Just checking in to spread a little BG love... This pic brought to you by Magic Mountain, The letter "G", rainbows and TITTYBALLS DEEP POW! FYI, the BG's absolutely smoked this day's worth of sick pow lines... Thought you'd like to see me rippin' on 'em.

[bl2000]

So better on hardpack with the new tune?

Haven't had a chance to get them fixed or skied on yet. I was commenting on Scott's PMs offering ways to fix these. I won't have them on my hot little feet until early April.

I should point out that the squirellyness on hardpack is exactly what I find on every other over-tuned ski. I know I can just de-tune the edges at the widest portion and get them to behave well on hardpack, but I also want to max the performance on powder and bumps--that means making sure the bases are right. IMO, it's better to start with skis on the stiff side that I can de-tune than with something too soft.

[bl2000]

Throwing caution to the wind, I took my edge file to the bases and gave them a 2 degree bevel (extending in 1/2 inch from the edge). I also seriously detuned the front of the skis, from about 2" behind the widest spot up to the tip.

In sum: PERFECT

We had about 6" of medium density snow at Solitude overnight, and some was wind-blown. From the first few turns, I was smearing or angling and just turning the skis wherever and whenever I wanted to. I hit the crust underneath the pow a few times and these took it in stride. I got a few runs where there was deeper snow (like 1/2 way down Sol-Bright and under the Summit lift) and it just got better.

As the day progressed and the snow tracked out, these babies were great on the powder bumps and groomers. Let me repeat: These were a blast on groomers. Even where it was slick, these held fine--there was no ice to speak of but some of the snow was hard-crusted. Skied great from a centered position.

Conclusion: NOW I UNDERSTAND.

Haven't had a chance to get them fixed or skied on yet. I was commenting on Scott's PMs offering ways to fix these. I won't have them on my hot little feet until early April.

I should point out that the squirellyness on hardpack is exactly what I find on every other over-tuned ski. I know I can just de-tune the edges at the widest portion and get them to behave well on hardpack, but I also want to max the performance on powder and bumps--that means making sure the bases are right. IMO, it's better to start with skis on the stiff side that I can de-tune than with something too soft.

[DoWork]

Throwing caution to the wind, I took my edge file to the bases and gave them a 2 degree bevel (extending in 1/2 inch from the edge). I also seriously detuned the front of the skis, from about 2" behind the widest spot up to the tip.

In sum: PERFECT

We had about 6" of medium density snow at Solitude overnight, and some was wind-blown. From the first few turns, I was smearing or angling and just turning the skis wherever and whenever I wanted to. I hit the crust underneath the pow a few times and these took it in stride. I got a few runs where there was deeper snow (like 1/2 way down Sol-Bright and under the Summit lift) and it just got better.

As the day progressed and the snow tracked out, these babies were great on the powder bumps and groomers. Let me repeat: These were a blast on groomers. Even where it was slick, these held fine--there was no ice to speak of but some of the snow was hard-crusted. Skied great from a centered position.

Conclusion: NOW I UNDERSTAND.

Thanks! I'll be doing this for sure. I knew it was just a matter of dialing in the edges and tune for hardpack... Nice work!