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  1. #301
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Quote Originally Posted by bodywhomper View Post
    Frorider, there’s a ski swap at Tahoe xc center next Saturday…
    Thx, yeah it’s been on my calendar for a while but since I can’t be there in person I didn’t want to burden my N Shore friends with having to shop on my behalf. Pulled trigger on some RCRs on sale.

  2. #302
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Location
    outer spokanistan
    Posts
    1,007
    .
    dorkin' the front 9 downvalley

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    "we all do dumb shit when we're fucked up"
    mike tyson

  3. #303
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Upstate
    Posts
    9,674
    Quote Originally Posted by plugboots View Post
    This looks so tasty ... get it!

  4. #304
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    526
    I didn't realize TGR was so accepting. Here are a few pics - early start to the season around here so I've been trying to take advantage while I can.

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  5. #305
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Greg_o
    Posts
    2,641
    Great pics. So jealous of people getting out already.

  6. #306
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    832
    Basic questions from a nordic curious noob:

    Classic vs Skate for just building fitness? Hopefully this doesn't start a holy war.
    Are lessons helpful or can a reasonable person figure it out on their own? Have experience with Tele and AT skiing (and obviously alpine).

  7. #307
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    home
    Posts
    239
    Quote Originally Posted by davjr96 View Post
    Basic questions from a nordic curious noob:

    Classic vs Skate for just building fitness? Hopefully this doesn't start a holy war.
    Are lessons helpful or can a reasonable person figure it out on their own? Have experience with Tele and AT skiing (and obviously alpine).
    I'm not a life long expert here, but I'd say skate over classic for building fitness.

    Lessons are definitely helpful. Yes, you can figure it out to an extent, but it is all about technique and some (a lot?) of it is not intuitive. I find folks that have been doing it for decades are still learning.

    My 2 cents

  8. #308
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    526
    Agreed on the above. I classic with my kids, I skate when out on my own. Skate is a much better workout unless you are double poling a ton with classic.

    I'd also second a recommendation on lessons if you can. I ice skate, downhill, and all the other winter things. I still got my ass kicked the first season on skate skis.

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Upstate
    Posts
    9,674
    Quote Originally Posted by davjr96 View Post
    Basic questions from a nordic curious noob:

    Classic vs Skate for just building fitness? Hopefully this doesn't start a holy war.
    Are lessons helpful or can a reasonable person figure it out on their own? Have experience with Tele and AT skiing (and obviously alpine).
    How about ice skating? If so, it'll come pretty quickly. I don't classic so can't compare it to skate but I can tell you skating for an hour kicks my freaking ass. Especially if you get after it a bit and the terrian has even a little bit of elevation.

  10. #310
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Donner Summit
    Posts
    1,251
    You can definitely get a workout with classic (without double poling) but it requires a good kick and weight transfer. Starting out people tend to just shuffle along and have a hard time getting enough speed to get out of breath. Classic is a good way to get skills dialed though, particularly pole/ski timing and gliding on a single ski (needed for skating too).

    Skating is kind of the opposite - as a beginner you're not very efficient, so you're forced to either go full gas or quit. Over time you learn to slow it down, glide longer, and be more efficient (and faster).

    Conditions matter too, in soft snow skating sucks but classic is OK. With icy firm snow it's the reverse. Generally I'm resort or BC skiing when the snow is soft so my skate skis get more use. Also waxing for skating is simpler (though in Norcal I wouldn't bother with waxable classics at all, just get skin skis).

    Suggest lessons when starting either way. I've been skiing classic for 50 years and skate for 30 but am still learning and still occasionally take lessons.

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    10,827
    It’s just like anything else, if you want to get better, quicker, take lessons.
    You absolutely can get a workout with either. It’s the classic: “it doesn’t get any easier, you just go faster”.
    Sometimes the snow’s soft and you wipe out. BFD
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    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  12. #312
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    2,356
    What teledad said. Classic XC allows you to trudge along, while skating requires a certain level of output to maintain the dynamic (and more so with sloppy technique). But still, if you’re knocking out 20k and 1000+’ of gain, you’re getting some kind of workout regardless. And with some actual diagonal stride technique, you can get the pulse going doing XC classic too.

    Lessons are worthwhile. Take a skate lesson right at the start, and then again after several days of experience. You want to sharpen your skills and not get into bad habits, but first you want to feel pretty good just getting around. Ditto for classic; I like doing a fast diagonal stride, and that’s not going to come naturally if all your Nordic experience is shuffling around on tele gear.

    Classic gear: you’re in CA? Then just get patterned or the ones with embedded fast skins strips. But… it’s so nice to own a set of flat-base for those occasional dreamy cold snow blue-gripwax days.

  13. #313
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    NorCal
    Posts
    832
    Thanks all! Sounds like skate plus lessons are the way to go. Fully prepared to suffer. In CA but parents are in the upstate NY (or north country depending on who you ask) so would go there a fair amount as well.

  14. #314
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    PNW
    Posts
    526
    Don't let me dissuade you from classic either. It has its place, I just tend to work harder when I skate. Other posters are 100% correct that you can get a workout in either way, but for me skate is just much more fun and I'm much more willing to go further and faster than when I classic.

    Either way - get out and enjoy. I never thought I'd be a nordic person myself, but I like it almost as much as downhill these days.

  15. #315
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Geopolis
    Posts
    16,082
    if you want a better workout doing classic you just go faster and farther. i’ve never done skate but i really enjoy seeing the landscape on the skinnies. plus it’s ubiquitous and cheap or free, which is a nice bonus.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  16. #316
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Shuswap Highlands
    Posts
    4,345
    I run hot when exercising and was never much of a runner (although I move as fast as the new recruits half my age in the forested slopes at work). XC just seems to fit me to a T with respect to low impact on my knees and cool temps to moderate my heat. Combined with fresh corduroy or 10cm fresh on supported base, and it’s as close to unmedicated nirvana I have experienced. Throw in some wildlife, especially by headlamp (or even better, moonlight), and nothing reps the soul of skiing more to me.

    Agree with much of the above, good interval training can be had with rolling elevation gain and skate, great cardio plus extension with both skate and classic on the flats. Lessons are always welcome, even if it’s just an opinion from a person of equal skill watching my technique from the side or rear. I’ve also found following a slower skier (kids are great for this) to slow down the stride and concentrate on the elements for a couple km’s. Gear is relatively cheap if you stay away from racing, and the family-orientated loppet scene is excellent in many skiing communities.

    Oh, and add a kiddo (or tarp/blanket, a basket of snacks, plus a nice mulled wine in a thermos) in the chariot with the family, and what better way to spend a weekend afternoon on the track while getting the heart rate up. Only topped by sauna shenanigans when you get back to base.

  17. #317
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    2,620
    Seems like this is as good of a place to ask as anywhere else. Does anyone have a recommendation for a light windbreaker vest for a bit of extra warmth while skate skiing?

  18. #318
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Bend
    Posts
    1,350
    Quote Originally Posted by John_B View Post
    Seems like this is as good of a place to ask as anywhere else. Does anyone have a recommendation for a light windbreaker vest for a bit of extra warmth while skate skiing?
    There are Nordic specific clothing lines like Swix, but I generally ski in cycling clothes.

  19. #319
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Big Sky/Moonlight Basin
    Posts
    14,412
    Quote Originally Posted by John_B View Post
    Seems like this is as good of a place to ask as anywhere else. Does anyone have a recommendation for a light windbreaker vest for a bit of extra warmth while skate skiing?
    Freeride Systems, a maggot owned and staffed company, is doing a special production run of vests.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...d.php?t=349252
    "Zee damn fat skis are ruining zee piste !" -Oscar Schevlin

    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  20. #320
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    10,827
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

  21. #321
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    15' from MT
    Posts
    405
    Lessons are key for both styles. The slightest 'off' technique kinda sucks. We have an awesome local Nordic club and with a very low yearly fee, you can get up to 4 or so lessons a year. The skate technique is simple and an coo fluid feeling. With an HR above zone 4, it can become difficult and lead to fuctup technique if you aren't on top of your game. One of the harder things I have learned and I would even compare it to surfing in terms of being absolutely light on the feet whilst blasting through the movement for propulsion. Breath and ALWAYS look forward. If you can see your tips, look up, even if they are just in your periphery. Experiment with gloves, I don't find the bulky-shelled style warm. Defeet woolies work well for me and I think the breathability and tight weave makes em work. I know folks who wear mittens...good luck! Full zip jackets only, any half zips or 3/4 just trap moisture in my experience. Potentially the most important, other than having fun trippin' is learn the technique and learn to go slow. The opposite of most snow-roadie mindsets but this is how you will feel the technique and aid in it becoming second nature.
    Also, check around for groomed snowmobile roads, we have 100s of miles of them around here and I prefer them to most other areas. You can basically do semi-backcountry sissy stick tours! This is also a place learning to go slow helps...good technique over a 3+hr road saunter is hella more fun than than getting blown in the first 45 minutes. The long SissySki is fun as shit!!
    Don't forget to get lessons!!

  22. #322
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    213
    Any beta on snow conditions/coverage at Squaw Creek Nordic Center? Looks like they're not officially open but based on the webcam it looks like there should be enough snow to dork around. Hoping it will hold up for another week.

  23. #323
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    30,879
    I've been told while classic looks easier than skating the suttle weight shift is not
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  24. #324
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    The Ether
    Posts
    199
    Now there's something I didn't expect expect to see, maggots actually discussing XC skiing... though the whole thing started out with everyone misspelling "gay" for 'some reason.' Me ? I started this whole skiing thing on XC skis when I was a tiny kid. When I got on alpine skis, they were easy. The thing is that, as a skier, if you just get out there and do another 'discipline', you discover that it all really is just skiing. XC, AT, DH, SL, SG, GS, FR, FS, SX, SJ, SF, SB, SD, BS, TS, SM, etc, etc. It's nice to see people have really gone out there, skied on XC gear and discovered it as .... skiing. Since I grew up doing diagonal-stride (OWK as classic) I still love it. I cherish my early teenage memories of being slickly passed by a gray-haired grandpa who wasn't even breathing hard - after his "løype!" But hey, skating is the thing now. They say that XC skiing is the most high impact sport known to humans at this point, at the highest competitive levels. Even higher impact than professional cycling (in the context of the time frame of the available competitions) So for a workout, there are very few things that can offer the intensity of a good skate. But if you really work at a good, gliding diagonal stride, you can still go fast and get a great workout. But the thing is, how are you going to get get good at either? It is doable on one's own. People have done it. But most people really benefit from lessons. (granted that they can find a competent coach).
    "Sometimes nuthin' is a real cool hand"

  25. #325
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bottom feeding
    Posts
    10,827
    Quote Originally Posted by tellybele View Post
    Lessons are key for both styles. The slightest 'off' technique kinda sucks. We have an awesome local Nordic club and with a very low yearly fee, you can get up to 4 or so lessons a year. The skate technique is simple and an coo fluid feeling. With an HR above zone 4, it can become difficult and lead to fuctup technique if you aren't on top of your game. One of the harder things I have learned and I would even compare it to surfing in terms of being absolutely light on the feet whilst blasting through the movement for propulsion. Breath and ALWAYS look forward. If you can see your tips, look up, even if they are just in your periphery. Experiment with gloves, I don't find the bulky-shelled style warm. Defeet woolies work well for me and I think the breathability and tight weave makes em work. I know folks who wear mittens...good luck! Full zip jackets only, any half zips or 3/4 just trap moisture in my experience. Potentially the most important, other than having fun trippin' is learn the technique and learn to go slow. The opposite of most snow-roadie mindsets but this is how you will feel the technique and aid in it becoming second nature.
    Also, check around for groomed snowmobile roads, we have 100s of miles of them around here and I prefer them to most other areas. You can basically do semi-backcountry sissy stick tours! This is also a place learning to go slow helps...good technique over a 3+hr road saunter is hella more fun than than getting blown in the first 45 minutes. The long SissySki is fun as shit!!
    Don't forget to get lessons!!
    Calm down with the lesson shit, jeez.
    Well maybe I'm the faggot America
    I'm not a part of a redneck agenda

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