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Thread: soloing in the backcountry
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10-26-2004, 03:37 PM #51
[QUOTE=Zeedashbo] you are right, i don't have the balls to start a total flame war.QUOTE]
......god created man. winchester and baseball bats made them equal - evel kenievel
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10-26-2004, 03:42 PM #52
zee, I'm not looking for a flame war, especially with you.
However, condoning unsafe actions in the backcountry is not something I'm going to encourage, even if the flock thinks otherwise. Be safe out there.
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10-26-2004, 03:58 PM #53Originally Posted by BlurredElevens
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10-26-2004, 04:01 PM #54
zing?
......
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10-26-2004, 04:03 PM #55Originally Posted by nate s
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10-26-2004, 04:04 PM #56
re-zinged?
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10-26-2004, 04:31 PM #57Originally Posted by BlurredElevens
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10-26-2004, 04:32 PM #58Originally Posted by cololi
for everyone else,
now to add some fuel to the fire. I sometimes SCUBA dive alone too. flame away.
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10-26-2004, 04:38 PM #59Zen Master
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- 2,496
I'm thinking of driving home tonight over teton pass. Problem is it snowed an inch or so.
Think I should wait until I can find someone to follow me over the pass? Should I turn my beacon on?
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10-26-2004, 04:43 PM #60Originally Posted by frozenwater
i can meet up with you if you need a partner. just wait 6 hours or so.
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10-26-2004, 04:59 PM #61Originally Posted by frozenwater
You don't own a beacon! Liar Liar Pants on Fire.
If you have someone follow you, make it to the safe zone completely and then and only then signal your partner.
That inch may slide; how is the base, have you dug a pit to check?
Be careful out there.
Shit, we were just concerned for our friends. No more. "You go first across there" in now my motto exclusively. Or go by yourself, my wife won't let me go."boobs just make the world better really" - Woodsy
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10-26-2004, 05:00 PM #62Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
With that being said thanks a ton for all the stoke you've been passing along the past couple weeks. The trip reports you share show a good knowledge of the bc and I think it is sweet that you are getting after it and being safe. That is all.
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10-26-2004, 05:08 PM #63
yeah, they get married young around here. real young.
as for todays TR, gramps has that and will post later. here's a few parting shots to hold everyone over till then.
10-26-04
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10-26-2004, 05:32 PM #64Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
I don't mean to be flip about it, because I faced the same situation. All my former BC ski buddies got too busy with jobs, family, etc, to go skiing much anymore. But for many years I kept trying to drag them out, and mostly ended up going solo. After finally realizing that nothing was going to change (or could change) with their situations, I decided to find new people to ski with.
Now I am reminded that even though I could go solo, it is always way more fun going with other people.
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10-26-2004, 05:43 PM #65Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
I for one am glad there is a Utard that is finally packing a camera. We can actually see what Xover is raving and foaming at the mouth about. Thanks for keeping us sane man.
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10-26-2004, 05:44 PM #66
I'm stuck on campus until later tonight, but APD got some decent skiing shots, so it'll be tasty.
Last edited by gramps; 10-26-2004 at 05:58 PM.
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10-26-2004, 05:51 PM #67
to hopefully close this topic, i will say that while i appreciate some of the concern i am reading. i have a fairly open offer for touring partners, but i will not stop doing what i enjoy when i deem it to be safe. i prefer to ski rather than debate backcountry travel practice with some who are unfamiliar with the subject matter. i know what worst case scenarios are and take precautions against them. i am also aware of those who have passed before. those who have toured with me in the past, either from this board or not, can attest to my approach to safety relative to the conditions. just because danger exists in the mountains doesn't mean that you cannot safely travel alone in the bc. the obvious danger that day existed on the E, N and NE aspects. i was on the west. that is just another example of why i was not concerned on that day. i was never on a debate team in high school, so i will close by saying thank you for some of the opinions. i hope this issue is settled.
edit: good call eldo. like i said, the offer is pretty much open.
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10-26-2004, 05:52 PM #68Call me Ishmael
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
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- Lima, Peru
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Ahhh - the annual debate.
"Skiing backcountry alone? You're nuts!"
"No way, I knew what I was doing and took a managable risk"
"Oh yea, this guy was super-rad and he DIED"
"..."
Everybody is gonna have their own view on this. Obviously it would be better if APD was up there with somebody (sounds like you did drag someone up today), but knowing the snowpack and the specific area very well (having been there a bunch myself after heavy snows I didn't flinch reading the TR at first), having skied similar slopes the last few days, digging pits, and taking a very safe route to get up there all factor in to the willingness of APD to risk what he has.
The whole arguement to me sounds sort of like wearing a helmet when you're biking. Am I gonna make you wear it every single time you get out there? No, I'm not your mom or your girlfriend. But it would be pretty dumb not to take some simple safety precautions...
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10-26-2004, 05:58 PM #69
Oh, and as for the ongoing conversation about going by yourself... it definitely eliminates a safety margin (i.e., if you get hurt or buried, there might not be anyone around to know about it or help you.) However, it's just reason to be extra careful, not to completely reject the practice. With the proper knowledge, it's really not such a terrible thing. I think some (not all) of the people who are giving APD such a hard time are straight out of their first avy class and heard in that class that going out by yourself sends you straight to hell. (and that's excellent advice for new BC skiers - never go alone). But after amassing a certain amount of experience, one can know what they want to risk, and what's relatively safe (all safety is relative) versus russian roulette. Having skied with APD a few times now, I know he knew what he was doing and skied carefully. End of the story in my mind.
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10-26-2004, 10:43 PM #70
Deep, light stuff? Check.
Not even effing November yet? Check.
Skier is from Baton Rouge and tearing up? Cheeeeck.
Nice APD. Mucho muy very nice.Days on snow 06-07: 3
Days behind a boat summer 2006: 24
"Coming here and asking whether you need wider skis is like turning up at the Neverland Ranch and asking Michael if he'd like to come to Tampa with the kids" -bad roo.
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10-27-2004, 08:33 AM #71Registered User
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- Oct 2002
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- MD
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- 110
Originally Posted by Mental Square
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10-27-2004, 04:22 PM #72Originally Posted by Brett's Anus
TR's are clearly marked with who has posted them. treat them like an annoying political thread and don't open them. who forced you to look? who asked for your asinine half-witted opinions? i surely didn't.
i will not give you a "viable reasoning" for my bc practices. you are clearly not going to understand any answer given. enjoy your late 80's warren miller flicks and keep your comments to something you understand. i'll even start a barney thread for you.
some of you have voiced real concerns and i do appreciate it. others need to learn some tact. anyone venturing into the bc should adopt principles and stick to them. my principles will be different than those of a married person or a less competent tourer. remember that groups larger than 3 often get a group safety mindset that if left unchecked can lead to dire consequences.
for those who came here looking for stoke, i am sorry. i hope people like this don't ruin it for you in the future.
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10-27-2004, 11:48 PM #73
Stokerific pictures!
Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
Fire and water... and this thread is where it is and you brought it up...
If this were a SCUBA forum people would be flaming you for solo diving. The only "safe solo" dive is with a primary and a standby both tethered with tenders and probably UW comms!
The water doesn't know how confident you feel. Water doesn't know how well experienced and educated you are. The water doesn't care that you are a local. Now replace "water" with "avalanche" or "backcountry" and reread.
Three representative snow pits... and you think that's enough to account 100% for spatial variability? A ski cut at the top may not trigger when hitting the right weak spot in the middle could. Ever seen the Swiss study that showed 18% of R-6 and 13% of R-7 tested slopes can still be skier triggered? As Blurred said, what's between the safe zones? Does that mean you shouldn't ever ski? No. It means that you can try to measure the risk but there is still chance.
And the rest of the post is not at any one person in particular but on solo skiing in...
And who would save you if something did happen? An extra person could be more dangerous? Sure. Don't take an untrained idiot. Are people acutally suggesting that they would rather be buried solo than having the partner possibility of someone looking for them or going to get help???
Remember: When you are alone a beacon is nothing more than an fancy expensive corpse locator! (please still wear one though... probe lines suck).
Hell, even the resorts put up signs telling guests to take a partner to ski certain patrolled areas!!! Why? Because it's safer and smart!
Do solo people really have less accidents? I wanna see those stats. This is about risk mitigation sure and things are relative. You can go solo on 15deg consolidated corn and it might be safer than three people skiing and unstable 40deg chute. The relativity of safety argument is dumb. The solo skier can still die from an accident that wouldn't have killed people in the three person group.
Like I was saying, the risk evaluation seems off. Some things to consider when solo skiing:
A lot more can happen besides a slide (and there were a lot of avalanche red flags in this case). Bindings can bust in waist deep snow, you could lose your skis, you could get lost, buried headplant a treewell (like Bullet), weather could move in, you could bust a knee, break a leg, hit a tree, or otherwise injure incapacitate or strand yourself, etc etc etc.
With no buddy to help you or go for help what will you do? Will you have any way to call for rescue? Whistle/Signal Mirror/Smoke/Flares? Will anyone see/hear? Are you in cell range (are you sure? 100% of the time? is the battery working?) Do you have a HAM HT? Are you in repeater range? Is anybody listening? Do you have a satellite phone?
Will your rescue come when you are reported overdue by whomever you left your itinerary with calls dispatch? (I assume you left instructions)
What will the response time be to confirm you are missing? Will SAR even come to look for you? Will the weather and light allow for that? How long will that take? How big is the area they must search? Has blowing snow filled in your tracks? Is the area snowmobile accessable? How long will it take? Will you be able to survive that long with whats in your pack (did you consider this when packing)? The night? 2 Days? In a potentially injured state? (or are you already a corpsicle?)
I've been on an avalanche recovery mission. I've seen the results up close. Ever seen the look on the face of the friends/family of the victim?
I hope to God I never have to dig someone I cared about out of a slide.Originally Posted by blurred
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10-27-2004, 11:58 PM #74
Well, there you have it folks. Quit being stupid, naive, and think about what you're doing.
When it's GAME OVER, that's it. No retries, gimmees, mulligans or do-overs. This is life, you get only one. Be smart, be safe.
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10-28-2004, 06:31 AM #75
thanks for taking the time to post summit. i agree with most of what you are saying. i do not advocate solo skiing but think it should be an option for those that can mitigate the dangers and accept the consequences. as for diving, i do carry a backup 15 min bottle and am never far from shore. also i am at high tide with the currents minimal. in the last 5 years, solo diving is now a somewhat accepted practices that ssi now certifies for.
with skiing, i know the area well and have skied it many times. several people knew my plan and my backup. there were also some lifties that i knew from last year at the top of wildcat loading chairs. i do take a chance that is never 100%. i try to mitigate the circumstances and minimalize both the risk and consequences. nothing with regard to avalanche and safety is 100% and people should know that. i do not go out solo on days that would put a rescue team in danger. if a slide caught me, it would likely be localized and no longer threaten the sar teams. on days where things do get dangerous as the day goes, i change my travel practice and usually ski down a similar way that i came up. i am not too bull headed to turn around. i have done it on many sketch line, whether alone or with someone.
i'm sure i didn't address everything but atleast provided some insight to what i'm talking about. summit, i do find you post well written and in good taste. that said, than you for posting it.
edit to change a letter.Last edited by AltaPowderDaze; 10-28-2004 at 07:57 AM.
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