NTN screws loosening.... WTF?

[marshalolson]

fuck 2 part epoxy.

use "goop" brand marine glue/sealant. it holds shit TIGHT, but is flexible.

it is the best binding glue on the market, period.

[Professor]

fuck 2 part epoxy.

use "goop" brand marine glue/sealant. it holds shit TIGHT, but is flexible.

it is the best binding glue on the market, period.

Oh sure.... NOW you tell me

[zeroforhire]

fuck 2 part epoxy.

use "goop" brand marine glue/sealant. it holds shit TIGHT, but is flexible.

it is the best binding glue on the market, period.

If you can't find marine goop, plumbers goop should work. From what I understand, it is practically the same as marine goop, just no UV protection.

[slobmonster]

I mounted a customer's NTN rig last week, and in short order ALL TWELVE binding screws were spinners. No additional torque, I did not roid up, etc etc.

I think it's the screws. Rottefella provides pot metal screws that, although the thread pitch looks consistent with other screws, the threads themselves are very, very thin. (Same thing goes for the screws they provide with their nordic bindings, but I don't give a huge shit about cranking down screws in skate skis.)

I have had some luck* replacing the Rotefella NTN screws with Dynafit ST/FT/Comfort heel unit screws. These are much higher quality.

If you are using epoxy, I'd suggest (Loctite brand) Hysol Epoxi-patch. SVST carries it.

[frorider]

professor, like you, i've been mounting tele bindings forever. i have noticed that rigid subplate bindings (e.g. rotte cobra R8s) tended over time to work the screws loose. I'm a big guy and my gear gets abused. For flat subplate bindings, the best solution is marine or other epoxy in the holes, and 2-sided carpet tape between teh subplate and ski topsheet. that tape, once compressed, provides oustanding resistance to shear-plane motion of the subplate.

for NTN subplates, , which don't provide much flat area for the tape, using 6 mounting holes is the best solution, and of course use epoxy. I've been using epoxies of various types on so many goddamn tele binding mounts in the last 20 years with zero negative effects that i can't imagine not doing it.

Note that old-style NTN subplates can be mounted with 6 screws by just nestling the final pair inside one of the triangular cut-outs in the subplate.

i have 10 pairs of NTN skis mounted currently, from DPS carbons to 12 pound metal laminate skis, with no issues. I had a pair of Volkls on which the NTN plate loosened a little (the tell-tale creaking while skiing revealed the issue)...i cleaned things up and remounted carefully, making sure i had a good amt of epoxy in each hole, and haven't had any issues since then with over 60 days on those boards.

[JRiph]

Would threadlocking compound not be a more appropriate method of locking threads. From what I understand the thread itself is fine but they unscrew themselves right?

either lOCTITE blue 242 or green 290. the red 271 is probably only suited if you really like your set-up as it needs 500F/260c to loosen and will not yield to just a firm hand or large hand tool for that matter.

my 2cts

[DropCliffsNotBombs]

It's nice to see that 2-part epoxy and JB weld are NOT being readily recommended for this fix.
We are finally coming around!

[hop]

It's nice to see that 2-part epoxy and JB weld are NOT being readily recommended for this fix.
We are finally coming around!

Ha! I used JB weld in my last NTN mount only because I had nothing else. No wood glue, no 2-part epoxy, it was either JB weld or some session-saver surfboard ding repair.

[Alexander1310]

I haven't had any loosening yet with my wood glue mounts. But I'm going to start checking.

[sfotex]

Would threadlocking compound not be a more appropriate method of locking threads. From what I understand the thread itself is fine but they unscrew themselves right?

either lOCTITE blue 242 or green 290. the red 271 is probably only suited if you really like your set-up as it needs 500F/260c to loosen and will not yield to just a firm hand or large hand tool for that matter.

my 2cts

Loctite threadlocker is for metal on metal applications. I bet it would never fully cure if it was used to mount skis.

[Professor]

Just a bump since I am giving these damn bindings one more try. I gave up when the NTNs came back out of my S7s. Going to try them on some Big Dumps which appear to have more metal in them than the S7s. If they fail with 6 screws right off the bat, look for a NTN set up in gear swap. The one thing I may switch is trying different screws. Problem is finding thin flat ones that are the right size. Might try normal binding screws even though they arent flat. They appear to fit nice and snug in the plate, but there is something nagging at me that the flat screws will be less likely to move around. Honestly I dont know why in the hell I am even bothering other than my wife would not let me buy new alpine skis. She didnt seem to have a problem if I bought new tele skis

[AlpiNord]

Just a bump since I am giving these damn bindings one more try. I gave up when the NTNs came back out of my S7s. Going to try them on some Big Dumps which appear to have more metal in them than the S7s. If they fail with 6 screws right off the bat, look for a NTN set up in gear swap. The one thing I may switch is trying different screws. Problem is finding thin flat ones that are the right size. Might try normal binding screws even though they arent flat. They appear to fit nice and snug in the plate, but there is something nagging at me that the flat screws will be less likely to move around. Honestly I dont know why in the hell I am even bothering other than my wife would not let me buy new alpine skis. She didnt seem to have a problem if I bought new tele skis

What are the screw dimensions you need? Hee's our list of alpine screws:
5.5 x 9.5mm Flathead
5.5 x 11.5mm Flathead
5.5 x 13mm Flathead
5.5 x 15mm Flathead
5.5 x 16mm Flathead
5.5 x 18mm Flathead
6.2 x 17.5mm Flathead
5.5 x 21.5mm Flathead
5.5 x 28mm Panhead

What about SS inserts and machine screws?

[Professor]

^^^ Thanks, but all the standard alpine screws the head is too thick and will not allow the plate to slide on the subplate. I have no idea where Rotefella found these damn screws

As for inserts, I am sure they would work, but if a binding can not stay in a ski after being simply mounted "properly" something in the system is simply broken. We will see what happens.

Oh and why didnt someone tell me how lame the NTNs would look on new Big Dumps? Come on orange bindings on matching orange skis, that is just sad

[MakersTeleMark]

the system is simply broken.

^^^ This.

[Professor]

^^^ You are probably right, but I have to give it the old college try. Honestly if this binding will not stay in any skis, I give up on tele. They finally make a binding that works like I want it to and the single connection point seems to be what makes it fail. Cant fix that problem without doing away with the option of making a tele turn

[Danno]

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble and so many people are not. The system is most certainly not broken.

[timnormandin]

^^^ Thanks, but all the standard alpine screws the head is too thick and will not allow the plate to slide on the subplate. I have no idea where Rotefella found these damn screws

As for inserts, I am sure they would work, but if a binding can not stay in a ski after being simply mounted "properly" something in the system is simply broken. We will see what happens.

Oh and why didnt someone tell me how lame the NTNs would look on new Big Dumps? Come on orange bindings on matching orange skis, that is just sad

I took some alpine screws and with a few--not many, really--strokes of a file had the plate sliding as slick as The Black Swan's pussy.

[Professor]

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble and so many people are not. The system is most certainly not broken.

I dont know, but if you read this whole thread, I am not exactly alone with having the screws loosen. As for the system, we will see how things go. I am hopeful that I wont have more problems, cuz the NTN sure does ski nice. Now to the real issue.... what sticker should I put on the skis so they dont look so pristine?

[frorider]

NTN is no better or worse than most any tele binding when it comes to the mounting screws loosening up. i.e. if mounted correctly, there is no issue even if you're a big guy hucking daily. NTN is far better than the BD O1, which regularly pries out the rearmost screws.

As for the screws, they are just the regular Rottefella screws that Rotte has used forever for the Cobra etc. Which means that most shops that occasionally mount tele bindings have jars of these screws they'll give you for free.

[axebiker]

I haven't had any loosening yet with my wood glue mounts. But I'm going to start checking.

I did. On two pair of skis after 2 days. I'll be watching them pretty close. I got a little less than 1/4 turn on each screw. Yikes.

I NEVER had an issue with my HH's.

[Professor]

NTN is no better or worse than most any tele binding when it comes to the mounting screws loosening up. i.e. if mounted correctly, there is no issue even if you're a big guy hucking daily. NTN is far better than the BD O1, which regularly pries out the rearmost screws.

As for the screws, they are just the regular Rottefella screws that Rotte has used forever for the Cobra etc. Which means that most shops that occasionally mount tele bindings have jars of these screws they'll give you for free.

I havent had this problem with any other binding and I have been teleing on big boots, big skis and stiff bindings for a while to say the least. I have had other problems and broke my fair share of bindings, but never had a problem with the screws loosening up. So there is something else going on. As for the screws, I was hoping to find something with a better thread up high since the Rotefella ones get a bit thin. I have more than enough of the original ones to do the job, I just think the original ones are part of the problem. But again, we will see what happens after a few days of skiing on them.

[Jethro]

If this problem persists, how about t-nuts through the base with blue loctite for starters? Not ideal, but plenty strong

[Professor]

If this problem persists, how about t-nuts through the base with blue loctite for starters? Not ideal, but plenty strong

Maybe if I say this one more time.... If something like this is required to ski NTN then there is a real problem with the system. It is possible that this binding boot combo simply pushes a ski too far, but if that is the case I am done with teleing. I am not going to start having to use inserts, t-bolts or anything else to keep my bindings in the ski. I will just quit skiing them

[bio-smear]

So just sell them and STFU. Jesus Christ.

I'm 6'1" and 190 lbs, and I used my NTNs on S5, S6, and Team 130's. Every mount has been 4-screws, drilled at 3.6mm, threaded in without pre-tapping, using Loctite-brand 2-part 50 minute set marine epoxy. This is NOT threadlocker. Loctite is a brand, not a single product, and they make epoxy. I do use the blue threadlocker on the set-screws though, not to confuse the issue.

I've EASILY broken loose these epoxied screws days or seasons later, when selling the skis or bindings.

Never a single loosened screw. And I DO beat them about. So what I am I doing right that you are not? At this point your holes might be hotdog/hallway if you have been retightening them often.

The Rotte screws for plates are somewhat unique compared to standard alpine bindings, which tend to be countersunk. They use a pozi drive panhead and mate flush to the plate surface. Like most everyone, I touched mine with the Dremel grinding wheel to reduce their profile for easy slide-on/off of the binding.

FYI: DropCLiffsNotBombs is a pitiful dunce who once mistakenly used a phillips drive on a pozi drive screw and stripped it out, then blamed it on the unrelenting clutch of epoxy. He now crusades against epoxy every season in these threads. Disregard him.

[verbier61]

Of the 5 people i know in verb using regularly ntn (me included), one loosened screws from time to time. He's also the biggest and the most aggressive skier of the group.... And he already broke a number of other tele bindings