First Post/ Liner Question

[Scratch59]

First off, hello everybody (if you could respond hi dr nick, it'd make my week): excuse my shameless simpsons plug if you dont get the reference

Second, I have stumbled here in search of the answer to the following question:

I am buying an Arc Teryx Theta AR jacket for a year round water/bombproof shell to be used mainly for skiing. It being a shell in the truest sense of the word, i need a liner. Dropping the kind of money I will be on the shell has me determined not to overlook/fookup the liner purchase.

I am stuck between the following choices:

a) Fleece: i know wind + fleece = nightmare, but it has its advantages. I create a lot of heat when i ski/move. Fleece gives me the opportumity to choose the level of added warmth I want from the liner.

b) Wind protected fleece: seems to fix the major drawback of fleece, but I question how well the technology works. Some experienced opinions would be great here.

c) Synthetic down: Certainly the strongest competitor in my race right now. I love the near weightless feel, the warmth, the fact that it can easily be worn as an outer layer. It looks a little goofy, but it might just be a matter of finding the right one. I do however get concerned that it will keep me too warm... again, experienced people would help a ton here.

I really am open to anything when it comes to this layer. I want to be able to wear it on its own when i dont need the two together. For that reason, I care about the cosmetic appeal of the jacket. Otherwise the warmth factor is the biggest selling point. Feel free to make/model drop as many specifics as you want... i will look at every one of them... im just that picky about my research..

thanks for helping a new guy out.

[Scratch59]

Kinda considering TNF Zephyrus insulated pullover

[Kpyto]

How often do you think you will be wearing this 'layer' as your outer layer compared with under your shell? As you point out a normal fleece will be pretty useless at blocking wind and moisture, so not at all suitable as an outer layer for skiing. On the other hand, an insulated, primaloft type jacket would probably be way too hot (and humid) for you under a shell on all but the coldest days if you say your run hot. Have you considered a soft shell jacket instead of the arcteryx? You give up some extreme weather protection, but it might be more versatile for you if you are only getting one jacket....For what it's worth, I usually end up with nothing but a couple icebreaker shirts under my shell and am plenty warm, if it's really cold then a down layer comes out.

[oftpiste]

fleece breathes and wicks under a shell. I run hot and use a very lightweight fleece like patagucci r1 as a mid layer.










JONG!

[Scratch59]

Thats my main unknown at this point.

Skiing is a sport i gave up for a few years and am just getting back into. I love the outdoors in general and thats the reason for this particular shell purchase (I can use it in the summer for deluges of rain.)

I have no idea how warm i will be under just this layer with my under armour. For all i know, it might be very satisfactory and i can just keep a down layer if i get a bitterly cold/windy day.

The shell component of the purchase is pretty set in stone. I loved the long cut of the Theta AR, the brick wall feeling of the gore tex fabric, and the overall versatility of the jacket. I also don't trust soft shell fabrics for hiking through the woods... something about them seems to attract more pokes than a traditional shell... i wish i had the extra cash to experiment with the new Gore Tex soft shell fabric (as i have heard it is nice) but the only jackets i find it on have snow skirts, which a versatile jacket does not it make.

[Neuro]

What are you using it for? Back country stuff, or just lift service skiing? If you're just lift service skiing and weight/portability is less of a concern, you can get away with the fleece option pretty easily. Just add layers as necessary. Keep in mind if you're going to be skiing pow without wearing the shell, that snow likes to stick to fleece a fair bit, and it will get wet fairly quickly. A softshell/down jacket is a better option if you're going to be wearing the insulating layer as an outer layer.

[steved]

Been rambling over this Scratch, and my softshell sits in the closet the most...up here in N.Central Maine..
I have a Patagucci softshell...doesn't block the cold air as much as my Marmot hardshell...seems like a Rocky Mtn.-specific design.. Why they all have left these nice parkas without total windproofnesss is beyond me.
$.01

[old goat]

I use a lined uninsulated goretex parka on stormy or cold days and an REI soft shell jacket on sunny days--reasonably windproof except for the zipper and the fact that it's short. It was fairly cheap on sale and would work well under the parka if it were ever cold enough here in California. If you're looking for something to wear under your parka or by itself that would be my recommendation.

[bobbuilds]

if i were a doctor i would have a down vest and a few fleece layers to sweat through. that way i could mix it up, i'd be kick ass. if i were a doctor.

[hutash]

I wear a fleece layer of some sorts most days, and just adjust the thickness to the day.On really cold days I wear a Patagucci R3, on warmer days an R1 or various capalene layers. Really, really cold days I add a down sweater. The whole point of a mid layer is you get to adjust it for the day. There is no perfect layer for all conditions. If there was you wouldn't need a shell, just get a jacket with the mid layer built in.

[whyturn]

Arcterx delta or hh propile are good. I don't like windproof due to lack of breathability and the shell will stop wind. Try backcountry. Arcteryx cost more but is the best 300 weight for warmth and breathing

r1 is great for days it's 30 and above

[willmtbike4food]

Cold days, I have a down vest I wear underneath my Theta AR. Most days, its a medium-weight softshell, though...

My next midlayer purchase will be a Patagonia Down Sweater (or similar).

I can't stand standard fleece, for two reasons - 1, as mentioned before, it tends to attract snow, and 2, it doesn't do well with clothing that has a brushed liner (whether underneath a softshell, or with other base layers - it likes to 'stick' to them...)

[jgb@etree]

I run hot and use a very lightweight fleece like patagucci r1 as a mid layer.

Greatest light fleece. Ever.

[Ted Striker]

Another vote for patagucci R1 for warmer days. For colder weather, any generic 100 (or 200 fleece for even colder) works fine.

[userA]

dude wear a ton of different stuff, layer un layer, sweat freeze chill thaw, then get back to me on what works for you. i know i usually have to ask about the other tough stuff tp softness.