Lost - the final season

[BSS]

So if they're in 1977 on the island, Claire shouldn't have been born yet. Is she somehow like the "new" (old?) Rousseau?

[The AD]

No, it's 2007 on the island. We know the group with Richard, Ben and Locke at the foot statue are in the same time as the group at the temple because when they sent the flare up Richard saw it.

One thing I found strange last night was that Kate asked the others about the Ajira flight. How would she know the flight ended up on the island? All she knows is a few of them who were on the flight got "flashed" back to 1977.

[Elkhound Odin]

Kate's question was reasonable. If you were on an airplane, then found yourself in the past, then back in the present, you'd probably ask, "Hey, what ever happened to that plane I was on?"

Right now, I only want to know one thing, who the hell is smoky?

[quixotle]

What I found funny was how someone I forget who couldn't believe that Sahid was dead but then revived.. even though they just finished traveling through time. Twice. The show is silly, very little will be resolved in the final season or final episodes. There are about 1000 loose ends, there is absolutely no way to resolve this story. They keep adding more and more characters so old ones are forgotten, they keep changing it up with flash forwards, then time travel, now parallel dimensions so you never think back too far and try to connect the dots because you'd quickly realize that none of it makes any sense, that they're just making it up as they go. Every now and then they tie up a loose end so people think that everything can be explained except that for every loose end they tie up, they've created ten more along the way that go ignored. Just go with the flow, enjoy the ride but this show but anyone expecting some grand resolution is in for a mighty big disappointment.

[crackboy]

the infection in teh swan is likely just a ploy to keep whomever is tasked with pushing the button actually in the bunker rather than risk leaving, getting killed by a hostile and then having teh world end. the infection is likely the same one as rousseau's crew got hit with which is likley just being possessed by the smoke monster

[brosia]

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Portal:Mysterious

This website lists and details all of the mysteries from all the seasons and states whether they are solved, partially solved, or unsolved.

It's really helpful when you're wondering what the hell is going on.

[inthemtns]

So is Sahid going to be a Smokey? Is Claire? She didn't look that evil. Loose end resolution is at hand!!! We will have our day!

[The AD]

I think Jacob is ultimately going to be revealed as the evil one. He probably the one responsible for the sickness in Claire and Sayid.

[Eastside]

What I found funny was how someone I forget who couldn't believe that Sahid was dead but then revived.. even though they just finished traveling through time. Twice. The show is silly, very little will be resolved in the final season or final episodes. There are about 1000 loose ends, there is absolutely no way to resolve this story. They keep adding more and more characters so old ones are forgotten, they keep changing it up with flash forwards, then time travel, now parallel dimensions so you never think back too far and try to connect the dots because you'd quickly realize that none of it makes any sense, that they're just making it up as they go. Every now and then they tie up a loose end so people think that everything can be explained except that for every loose end they tie up, they've created ten more along the way that go ignored. Just go with the flow, enjoy the ride but this show but anyone expecting some grand resolution is in for a mighty big disappointment.

Reading your post I could not help but think of Mr. Eko. Based on the storyline now, what the hell was the point of him? Did he not get his ass handed to him by Smokey the monster? Was he just one of those loose ends like so many others?

Pretty damn convoluted.

MF

[summit]

Theory 1: Entertainment for MURDERING PSYCHOTIC Demigods

Jacob and MIB are both evil. C'mon. Look at past season! Jacob chose a fucking psychopath (Ben) as his chosen one to carry out his murderous and kidnapping ways, then chose the same of John. Is Jacaob really surprised his psychotic progeny turned on him? Smokey/MIB is a murdering psychopath too and supernatural Walt is/was his tool. The Island is a psychopath. There is no greater reason. Dharma was a bunch of idiotic incompetent fuckoffs for thinking the cure to humanity's evil ways layed upon an island controlled by a psychotic supernatural entity(ies). That's why they wasted their time making poison gas and breeding polar bears in the tropics. Idiots. And we are idiots for expecting a nice answer. It's just a bunch of psychotic supernatural beings having some giggles.

Theory 2: It's a show about a show

The Island is a TV show for interdimensional aliens. They have their holocorders set up all around. Jacob and MIB are incarnations of the alien network execs and Ben is their agent. They capture, kidnap, and make planes crash in order to bring new characters in for the aliens to watch. Murderous orders through Ben are to keep the show interesting. They can't have the island overrun by the outside as that would ruin the show, thus the desperate attempts to keep people from leaving, communicating, etc with the outside. Why else was Ben so urgent to stop the freighter people? If you gas ALL the characters, it makes a good finale, but the ratings end. Apparently the show was doing well enough on AlienTV. Also, the Dharma shit was wearing thin that's why they killed off those characters from the show. The Aliens weren't buying the BS. Us (the real audience) gets to watch the stupid human tricks meant for the in show alien viewers as well as watching the network execs changing the show over time.

[Lev]

So is Sahid going to be a Smokey? Is Claire? She didn't look that evil. Loose end resolution is at hand!!! We will have our day!

Not sure if anyone mentioned this already, but Claire is the new Rouseau for the Island. Remember they mentioned that the trap had been set fairly recently, so it could't have been Rouseau. Claire may not necessarily have gone evil, but the Girl has definitely Gone Wild.

[inthemtns]

Claire may not necessarily have gone evil, but the Girl has definitely Gone Wild.

Spring Break 2010 Baby!!!

Its interesting to Claire in L.A. remembering Aaron. If my idea about having to die on the island to get back to LA is right it would be interesting to see a time parallel (ie. you get hurt or close to death and that allows a window into the island mind) worked in.

[doughboyshredder]

not impressed at all with the last episode. Quite frankly I don't give a fuck about kate would do, unless we're talking about what she would do naked. Didn't learn much more, nothing blew up, nobody got brutally murdered. Sawyere turned in to a little bitch.

[Dantheman]

Jacob chose a fucking psychopath (Ben) as his chosen one to carry out his murderous and kidnapping ways, then chose the same of John.

No, Jacob never spoke to or met with Ben prior to last season's finale when they met in the foot statue, and it was MIB who manipulated Ben and Locke and used them to kill Jacob.

I don't think Jacob will turn out to be the evil one, it goes against whole the light/dark good/evil dichotomy they have been working from the very beginning. Jacob may have caused some suffering a la an Old Testament God, but it is obvious now that MIB has been the source everyone's visions/apparitions (Christian, Walt, Kate's horse, etc.) and has been actively trying to foil whatever plan Jacob is trying to carry out. I can't explain Jack's visions of Christian off-island since we have been lead to believe that MIB can't leave, but so far I cannot think of any evidence we have seen that Jacob can take on other forms.

Claire is definitely the new Rouseau but I don't think she is "infected", just whacked out from losing her child and living alone in the jungle for 3 years. Whether she is beyond saving like Rouseau was remains to be seen.

Kate on the run was a joke, she would have been caught before she even got out of the airport. Like Lev though I am intrigued about where they are going with the side-world stuff. I expected we would get at least some development on MIB's march from the beach with Richard, kind of pissed about that one.

edit: Nevermind on Claire, I completely forgot that Dogen told Jack she also had Sayid's infection.

[pappag]

Snooze fest. Haven't the fans let the writers know how much a Kate-centrist episode sucks donkey dung? Aside from the Claire sighting (same physical condition as Sayid + how did Samurai know who she was??) and Samurai's torturing of Sayid, not much revealed. Not sure what to make of Sayid now. Was the test to see if smokey was becoming inhabited inside him (ash on his body before electrocuting). Had Sayid died, would that have then meant that he did pass the test? I'm gathering that MIB is trying to organize an army of his own to combat the good guys (Bram et al who said (paraphrasing) in S5 that there will be a war and the good side will win).

Cue the Sun/Jin reunion next episode.

[Lev]

Another bump for Lost night. My guess is that Sayid will start turning into someone else... Claire will be a crazy psycho bitch, not much else to say there. Jack will be Jack. Hopefully someone will kill Kate, but it's unlikely. Actually, Sawyer will fuck Kate either tonight or next week. It's a given. Then someone might kill her... Story is going back to Locke and his crew tonight. Looking forward to seeing where that goes. It's time to start divulging some goods!

[pappag]

Solid episode.


Some thoughts/observations ...
- cave of numbers:
4: Locke - crossed off
8: Reyes
15: Ford (Sawyer)
16: Jarrah
23: Shephard
42: Kwon
Littleton - crossed off
- Jacob touched all the above in flashbacks including Kate. Why is she not part of those names not crossed off? Which Kwon is on Jacob's list of candidates - Sun or Jin? With Kate also not listed, maybe only males can be candidates?
- I'm starting to think the alternate universe is just a MacGuffin ... sure it gives some insight to what life would have been if F815 didn't crash on the island, but I recall the writers stating that they wanted to include both universes for the sake of showing both.
- Best explanation of the MIB/Jacob rivalry, why they can't kill each other, and why they are recruiting armies: IT'S A CHESS MATCH! Think of it like this. If the board is left with a white king and black king, one cannot kill the other. It's a stalemate. But if you can add more pieces (bring more people to the island), there remains the possibility of a checkmate. A king can't kill a king, but another piece can. They've both been trapped in a stalemate for God knows how long. Why? Because the other "pieces" keep getting added to the board, but they just kill each other instead of going for the checkmate.
- Little boy that appeared before Locke and Sawyer = Aaron = baby Jacob?
- when Locke was in the jungle with Sawyer, he said "Don't tell me what I can't do" with an old Locke tone. It's like he wasn't inhabited by Smokey for just a brief moment.

[The AD]

Loved the episode last night. I guess I like anything with Locke, or more accurately the guy who plays Locke.

Yeah, that kid sure did look like a young Jacob. Also liked the imagery of the black rock and the white rock on the balance. We know the Black Rock was the slave ship. Maybe the "white rock" was flight 815?

[Count Binosh]

Maybe new Sayid is really Iceman?

[peterslovo]

Solid episode.


Some thoughts/observations ...
- cave of numbers:
4: Locke - crossed off
8: Reyes
15: Ford (Sawyer)
16: Jarrah
23: Shephard
42: Kwon
Littleton - crossed off
- Jacob touched all the above in flashbacks including Kate. Why is she not part of those names not crossed off? Which Kwon is on Jacob's list of candidates - Sun or Jin? With Kate also not listed, maybe only males can be candidates?
- I'm starting to think the alternate universe is just a MacGuffin ... sure it gives some insight to what life would have been if F815 didn't crash on the island, but I recall the writers stating that they wanted to include both universes for the sake of showing both.
- Best explanation of the MIB/Jacob rivalry, why they can't kill each other, and why they are recruiting armies: IT'S A CHESS MATCH! Think of it like this. If the board is left with a white king and black king, one cannot kill the other. It's a stalemate. But if you can add more pieces (bring more people to the island), there remains the possibility of a checkmate. A king can't kill a king, but another piece can. They've both been trapped in a stalemate for God knows how long. Why? Because the other "pieces" keep getting added to the board, but they just kill each other instead of going for the checkmate.
- Little boy that appeared before Locke and Sawyer = Aaron = baby Jacob?
- when Locke was in the jungle with Sawyer, he said "Don't tell me what I can't do" with an old Locke tone. It's like he wasn't inhabited by Smokey for just a brief moment.

I like this line of thinking, but if Locke (MIB) had Jacob killed by Ben successfully, isn't the game over?

Why did Richard not see the young boy (a young Jacob maybe? Aaron?) but Sawyer did?

I don't think that Jacob is really gone...doesn't the kid say something to Locke (after Locke chases him through the woods and trips) like "You can't kill him"? And Locke (sounding like real Locke) replies "Don't tell me what I can't do!"

Edit: Following up on the chess idea literally, I looked up numerical chessboard notations (wow, which really change over time to alphanumeric) to see if the #s have any significance, and did find an old numeric pattern for labeling the chessboard that uses numbers 1-64...

I can't really see any pattern.

4 = Black Queen
8 = Black Rook
15 = Black Pawn
16 = Black Pawn
23 = open move
42 = open move



Edit 2: Hmmm. Some of the numbers (4, 8, 16) relate to Backgammon dice; the game is referenced many times (i.e., Hurley playing Walt, Locke playing) during the seasons too, and has a red vs. black, light vs. dark. Don't know if there's anything else here.

[summit]

This whole balance of good and evil thing is getting retarded... MIB is the debbil and he killed Jebus Jacob and now God the little kid is miffed at him.

And now the debbil MIB wend into Jacob's secret sea side cliff layer and threw the white stone from the white and black stone balance in to the sea. Apparently Jacob was schitzo and couldn't write on paper... he had to scrawl on a cave ceiling for dramatic effect.

Also, if Hugo parked that close to Locke's wheelchair van, how the FUCK did Hugo get his massive lard ass out of that Hummer? Yea... that's what I thought... no answers... just more questions.

[pappag]

I like this line of thinking, but if Locke (MIB) had Jacob killed by Ben successfully, isn't the game over?

Why did Richard not see the young boy (a young Jacob maybe? Aaron?) but Sawyer did?

Edit: Following up on the chess idea literally, I looked up numerical chessboard notations (wow, which really change over time to alphanumeric) to see if the #s have any significance, and did find an old numeric pattern for labeling the chessboard that uses numbers 1-64...

I can't really see any pattern.

4 = Black Queen
8 = Black Rook
15 = Black Pawn
16 = Black Pawn
23 = open move
42 = open move

Locke repeatedly stated that he "wants to go home". I imagine home is the world outside this island ... a world he wants to control and wreak havoc as a smoke monster.

There have been other apparitions throughout the show (horse before Kate, Christian Shephard before Jack, Walt before Locke). The young boy is probably no different and the fact that Richard didn't see him might reinforce his relationship to Jacob.

4 = Black Queen = Locke = ability to move anywhere?
15 = Black pawn = Sawyer -> last episode shows a Locke/Sawyer alliance building
16 = Black pawn = Sayid -> Samurai and John Lennon state that Sayid has been claimed -> possibly part of Locke's army
8 = Black rook = Hurley -> not sure of the correlation here other than possible castling move with 4 (Locke).
23/42 = open moves = Jack/Sun or Jin -> not sure here

[Stu Gotz]

I was definitely in the "hater" camp for a bit and was turned off as the writers' continued to insist they knew all along how it would end.

I think the writers knew how it would end, but I don't think they knew the show would run for this many seasons. I think in season two, books and writings in the hatch referenced twins/brothers (ying/yang), so I think that Jacob and the MIB were always going to appear.

But I think the extra seasons made the writers heap on a lot of B.S. to get to where they needed to end up. I think all of the time travel and zombies etc. were added on to what was probably a fairly simple story to begin with.

[neckdeep]

^^^^ The show's writer/creator team freely admits that the show drifted and has numerous episodes that now can be seen as pure filler. They wanted to end the show last season or earlier but the producer and ABC had the real say in the matter and wanted to milk the incredibly good ratings and, more importantly, produce 100-120 eps, which is the number required to make a show really profitable in syndication repeats. Abrahms and ABC came around to Carlton Cuse's viewpoint when the narrative drift and pointless sideplots/disposable characters started the show's ratings dropoff. Yes, the show's writers knew the island's secrets and had an outline of how it would all end but first they had to sell a billion bucks in advertising timeslots. Producing that show hasn't been cheap.

Season 3 and 4 have so much padding that they could be cut in half. At the end of 4, with the ratings nosediving, the writers convinced their masters that 32 more eps was all the show's fans could take. If this show had been made in the UK it probably would have had 30-40 narratively tight episodes at most. And totally cheese production values like Dr. Who.


For those of you kicking around this theology vs. destiny/free will, I'd point out that this is an old idea and not mutually exclusive (e.g. according to many religions, Man cannot escape fate(events) and is destined to die and face a judgment but it is his exercise of free will that determines the outcome of that judgment). Another extremely old concept (going back to the beginings of organized religion, Egyptians, Greeks etc.) is that the immortal compete and settle scores through their abililty to influence and manipulate the mortal. Just as the Nemesis entity could not directly attack Jacob, he can't directly release himself from the island. The old Judeo-Christian concepts again: (1) Evil cannot forcibly enter you, it must be invited in; (2) Evil has no intrinsic power other than lies, all else is done through the hands of Man.

Which brings up the interesting question, was the Nemesis ever really a guardian or has the island simply been his prison. Clearly, anything the Nemesis says or does is possibly a lie so not much faith can be placed in his revelations. He's sort of like The Satan(The Accuser) of the Old Testament, a malcontent angel who argues with Yaweh and yet appears wise to Man. A shapeshifter, the prince of lies and half-truths, whose only goal is to get Man to destroy himself. His brief debate on the beach with Jacob echoes The Satan's argument with Yaweh. "Why bring them (men) here (island)?" = "Why bring them (Man) here (Paradise/Eden)." Both The Satan and Jacob's Nemesis express the view that Man is a predictably selfish, lower form of life destined to destroy itself. The Satan provides Man with knowledge to speed along its destruction, while Yaweh is remote and demands Man's faith (the moral exercise of free will) without knowledge.

[Elkhound Odin]

Smoky and dead Jacob are building a couple warrior teams for a final apocalyptic showdown? And yet another "mystery" added to the show - an ancient lighthouse that shows reflections of buildings. And nobody ever saw this thing despite crawling all over the island for 3 years? This is really dragging on.

So who is going to show up as Jack's alternate universe ex-wife? My money is on Juliet.