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  1. #1676
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    Oct 2005
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    Idaho
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    10,024
    Yes on Rittenhouse. I’ll sip it occasionally. It’s the rye in cocktails in our house if a rye is needed. $22 a bottle here.

    In an age of the bourbon arms race, remember that the Wellers used to be plentiful and between $16-30 a bottle. I could see Rittenhouse changing from a screw top and catching $40-50/bottle someday.

  2. #1677
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
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    Babylon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    Yes on Rittenhouse. I’ll sip it occasionally. It’s the rye in cocktails in our house if a rye is needed. $22 a bottle here.

    In an age of the bourbon arms race, remember that the Wellers used to be plentiful and between $16-30 a bottle. I could see Rittenhouse changing from a screw top and catching $40-50/bottle someday.
    well we will always have Old Overholt....

  3. #1678
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    789
    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsy View Post
    well we will always have Old Overholt....
    Didn’t Beam try to bump that up a shelf recently? Higher proof and nicer packaging is what I remember, but haven’t seen anything new here.

  4. #1679
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    Sep 2001
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    Babylon
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    11,796
    Same old, unless you can find the BIB which I prefer to Rittenhouse

  5. #1680
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    Sep 2001
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    Babylon
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conundrum View Post
    In an age of the bourbon arms race, remember that the Wellers used to be plentiful and between $16-30 a bottle. I could see Rittenhouse changing from a screw top and catching $40-50/bottle someday.
    Bourbon in general has gotten stupid, but Weller got blown up by the Pappy Craze 12+ years ago and then some idiots saying "Weller is like Pappy but cheaper and easier to find" since both are wheated...

    poof no more cheap Weller & then they started taking advantage of that perception.

  6. #1681
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Way East Tennessee
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    4,235
    Obtanium Light Arrived. Only 71.2 percent.....
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  7. #1682
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Pagosa Springs CO
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    819
    Click image for larger version. 

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    A gift from my wife.

  8. #1683
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    6,979
    Nice, though that kinda looks like a nazi decanter.

  9. #1684
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    General Sherman's Favorite City
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    26,915
    If any of you have an Ohio DL or live there you should enter the last State bottle lottery of the year.

    I’ve tapped all my relatives back there to do the same for me but if one of y’all win, I’ll take a pour as a thanks for reminding y’all.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Very democratic how they take the entire state’s allotment of every bottle they get and sell it at retail to everyone who won a lottery spot in line.
    Last edited by BmillsSkier; 12-03-2021 at 04:00 PM.
    I still call it The Jake.

  10. #1685
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    CO
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    1,569
    Damn! Open that Double Eagle up and report back.

  11. #1686
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Carbondale
    Posts
    11,437
    I didn't even go hunting this year. But I opened my cabinet last night to realize I'm down to a few pours of 6-8 of my favorites. But, I haven't opened My Master's Keep or Mindwinter Nights Dram from last year.
    www.dpsskis.com
    www.point6.com
    formerly an ambassador for a few others, but the ski industry is... interesting.
    Fukt: a very small amount of snow.

  12. #1687
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Pagosa Springs CO
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    819
    Quote Originally Posted by ColMan View Post
    Damn! Open that Double Eagle up and report back.
    Sadly, my wife failed to read the fine print. Not only was the bottle empty, it was a cheap knock off bottle.
    It was a nice thought though.
    I filled it and sent a pic to our son as a goof.
    One site had it listed for $13,000. I could never justify paying that.
    I'm sure my pedestrian palate wouldn't appreciate it anyways.

  13. #1688
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    6,979
    Just sampled and grabbed a bottle of this. Really nice classic bourbon profile (caramel/vanilla/etc). Almost generic/boringly so. 90proof so a tiny bit of heat, fairly heavy corn. Could become a regular.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  14. #1689
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
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    Valley
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    446

    Unicorn #2 for the year. Honestly prefer small batch over single barrel, but this was all they had. $80, which I’m guessing is close to msrp


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #1690
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    789
    Quote Originally Posted by CovertM View Post

    Unicorn #2 for the year. Honestly prefer small batch over single barrel, but this was all they had. $80, which I’m guessing is close to msrp


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That’s about what I remember the last time I saw it (years ago). I’m with you on preferring the small batch. I still have half a bottle in the cabinet.

  16. #1691
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    Oct 2005
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    Idaho
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    That's about what it is here but I've only seen it for sale twice in many years.

  17. #1692
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    Oct 2006
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    8530' MST/200' EST
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    3,534
    Bought two bottles of Rittenhouse, this stuff is great


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    "If we can't bring the mountain to the party, let's bring the PARTY to the MOUNTAIN!"

  18. #1693
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    SLC, Utah
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    2,759
    Quote Originally Posted by Phall View Post
    Bought two bottles of Rittenhouse, this stuff is great


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Right?? Better than it has any right to be at $25.

    Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk

  19. #1694
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Way East Tennessee
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    4,235
    Quote Originally Posted by TNKen View Post
    Obtanium Light Arrived. Only 71.2 percent.....
    Forgot to post a TR. Heavy charcoal taste; I'm assuming the proof was sufficient to melt out the internals of the barrel, LOL. Not nearly as hot tasting as I was expecting, actually pretty mellow. I would put it in the category of Bullit, but a better. Maybe a touch better than Stagg Jr.

    Overall, something worth having in the collection for a taste at a decent price.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  20. #1695
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Wasatch Back: 7000'
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    11,703
    Stocked for Holiday
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    “A society that puts equality before freedom will get neither. A society that puts freedom before equality will get a high degree of both.”
    ― Milton Friedman

  21. #1696
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    The collective doesn’t seem the type likely to go into the secondary bourbon market, but…

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/d...e-bourbon.html

    That $1,000 Bourbon You Bought May Be a Phony
    Counterfeiting — filling luxury bottles with cheap liquor — has hit American whiskey hard as sky-high prices raise the payoff for scammers.

    By Clay Risen
    Published Jan. 6, 2022
    Updated Jan. 11, 2022
    To the casual eye, there was nothing amiss about the bottle of whiskey sitting on a shelf at Acker, a wine store on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. But for anyone who knew what to look for, the warning signs were clear.

    The whiskey, a bourbon called Col. E.H. Taylor Four Grain that Acker was selling for about $1,000, normally came packaged in a special cardboard tube; this one sat there tubeless. Its strip stamp, attached over the top of the cork, was on backward.

    Still, when a producer from the TV news program “Inside Edition” asked in April about the bottle’s authenticity, the store assured him it was legitimate.

    The producer bought the whiskey, then took it to Buffalo Trace, the Kentucky distillery that makes the Col. E.H. Taylor line of bourbon, for chemical analysis. The bottle, it turned out, was fake: It had been refilled with cheap whiskey and resealed, then sold to Acker as part of a private collection.

    The store said it had already pulled several bottles from the collection off the shelf, and offered refunds on bottles it had already sold. But that didn’t stop “Inside Edition” from featuring the incident in an eye-opening news report a few weeks later.

    It was just the latest high-profile example of what distillers, retailers and consumers describe as a growing problem for the bourbon industry and its millions of enthusiasts. Over the past few years counterfeiting, long a problem for purveyors of fine wines and single-malt Scotch, has come to American whiskey.

    “We’ve had fans from across the U.S. contact us to tell us they’ve been duped,” Mary Tortorice, general counsel for Sazerac, the company that owns Buffalo Trace, said in a statement in September.

    The scammers are finding fertile ground. “Luxury bourbon” was once an oxymoron; now, it’s the hottest thing in whiskey. Domestic sales of super-premium American whiskey — bottles valued over $50 — nearly doubled from 2016 to 2020, to four million cases, compared with an average growth of 30 percent for all American whiskeys, according to the Distilled Spirits Council of the United States.

    At the very high end, where bottles sell for $500 or more, demand has vastly outstripped supply, creating long lines at liquor stores and a robust secondary market, mostly within private social-media groups. Trading or selling in such groups is illegal, though some places, including Kentucky and New York State, are starting to loosen their laws to allow private collectors to sell through an auction or to licensed retailers like Acker.

    The disruptions caused by the pandemic have also created a new cohort of swindlers, some driven by economic desperation, others by boredom. And it has spawned a new pool of victims, as bourbon drinkers stuck at home with disposable income join the collecting fray, eager to show off their latest trophy.

    “Part of the problem is the culture I see around bourbon, where it is about bragging rights and being able to Instagram a bottle you just bought,” said Adam Herz, a whiskey collector in Los Angeles and an expert in counterfeit bottles. “Most people I see ending up with fakes are partly to blame themselves. Any good con man knows how to take advantage of someone’s greed.”

    Bourbon in 2022 is, in other words, a counterfeiter’s dream, shaped by enormous demand, limited supply and a steady inflow of new and naïve fans all too willing to part with their money — and unlikely to go to the authorities when they realized they’ve been swindled in a transaction that is by definition illegal.

    To make the deception even easier, most distilleries are only slowly taking action. Few are willing to admit the problem publicly, for fear of encouraging counterfeiters and discouraging interest in their own, legitimate products. Many still package their bottles with common shrink-wrap seals, despite the ease with which such closures can be faked.

    Even speaking publicly about phony bottles poses a dilemma. Because both the barriers to counterfeiting and the penalties for getting caught are so low, any discussion of fake whiskey may push more people to try their hand at it — or, if they’re already involved, give them tips to improve their game.

    Mr. Herz said he is regularly contacted by people posing as would-be whiskey buyers, asking if he can tell them whether a particular bottle is fake — when, in fact, he suspects they’re scammers looking for his unwitting advice on how to improve their technique.

    “To realize you inspired a faker is just awful,” he said.

    Mr. Herz, who by day works as a Hollywood producer and is best known for creating the “American Pie” franchise, first grew suspicious about fake bourbon around 2016, when he started noticing that empty bottles of high-end whiskey were selling briskly online.

    “What bothered me was all the empty Pappy Van Winkle bottles for sale on eBay,” he said. “I said, ‘What do you think all these people are buying the bottles for?’”

    Each bottle of Pappy Van Winkle, a coveted brand that often fetches more than $5,000 on the secondary market, comes with a unique identification code. Mr. Herz was able to read the number in a photo of an empty he found on eBay.

    He then went to one of the countless private bourbon fan groups on Facebook, where people buy and sell brands like Pappy. Within a few minutes, he said, he found the once-empty bottle, refilled and resealed, on sale for thousands of dollars.

    At that time, few brands beyond Pappy Van Winkle commanded the sort of prices that might justify the effort to counterfeit them. But over the last five years, as wealthy collectors started snapping up rare and prestigious bottles, more than a dozen other brands began to skyrocket in price, especially on the secondary market, drawing scammers’ interest.

    Many of those whiskeys, like Pappy Van Winkle and Col. E.H. Taylor, are made by Buffalo Trace, including George T. Stagg, W.L. Weller 12 Year and Double Eagle Very Rare. Five years ago a bottle of Blanton’s Single Barrel, another Buffalo Trace brand, cost about $65 at retail in New York City; it now sells for up to $1,000 on the secondary market.

    There’s also an increasingly brisk demand for bourbons made by other distilleries, among them Michter’s, Willett and Brown-Forman. And there is a small but passionate trade in so-called dusty whiskey, bottles that might have sat on a liquor-store shelf for decades, when bourbon was déclassé, but are now suddenly unicorns. Dusties, as they’re often known, are especially easy to fake because they usually come with screw tops, and because most consumers are unfamiliar with their packaging.

    The American counterfeit trade is still a few years behind the market for counterfeit single-malt Scotch, where fakery has a much longer and more sophisticated lineage.

    Isabel Graham-Yooll, the director of Whisky.Auction, an online auction website, said that worldwide, counterfeit Scotch has long been a thriving business, often run by organized crime and focused on volume, churning out thousands of outright fakes and knockoffs with deceptively familiar-sounding names — James Walker, for example, or Cutty Stark.

    Most of that high-volume, low-value trade takes place in developing markets, where demand for Western luxury goods is strong and regulatory oversight is weak.

    A different problem confronts the makers of high-end single-malt Scotch and bourbon. Much of the counterfeiting is done by small groups or individuals, and bottles may pass through several unsuspecting hands before they reach the expert eyes at auction houses. (To make matters harder for auctioneers like Ms. Graham-Yooll, private trade in bottles is largely legal in Britain.)

    “I saw one collection that was in its entirety fake, and it had all been gathered 20 to 30 years ago,” she said. “There are some really well-known fakes that keep popping up.”

    Reliable statistics on the size of the problem are hard to come by. Ms. Graham-Yooll dismissed as hyperbolic a 2018 study claiming that up to one-third of all rare single-malt bottles were fake. But she conceded that fakery is a sizable problem, and growing worse.

    There is no shortage of anecdotes like the encounter at Acker. In 2017 a Swiss hotel drew notice for selling the world’s most expensive dram to a Chinese tourist. Subsequent analysis of the liquid, which was purported to be a single-malt Scotch made by the Macallan distillery in 1878, showed that it was a blended Scotch made sometime after 1970.

    Like the Acker bottle, the fake Macallan had flaws obvious to an expert eye: the wrong cork, modern glass. In part because the field of counterfeiting is so new, Mr. Herz said, it’s not hard to spot counterfeits — drip stains on a paper label, for example, are a good indication that the bottle has been used before.

    “Most people are lazy and impatient,” he said.

    The whiskey trade has yet to see its version of Rudy Kurniawan, the prolific, highly skilled counterfeiter whose 2013 conviction for making and selling millions of dollars’ worth of precisely detailed fake Burgundy and California Cabernet rocked the wine world.
    To be continued…

  22. #1697
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    The rest of the story.

    But it may be only a matter of time. Experts say they have seen an increase in the quality of counterfeits; Mr. Herz suspects that at least a few counterfeiters have inside connections at Kentucky distilleries, allowing them to build fake bottles from scratch, with pristine labels and expertly crafted closures.

    A cottage industry has popped up in response, especially in Britain, promising high-tech countermeasures like through-the-glass chemical analysis, which allows sellers and collectors to assess a bottle’s authenticity without having to open it. But those are still in development, and years away from widespread use.

    Easier solutions already exist. The Macallan, among other distilleries, has started to place holographic images on its seals. Ardnamurchan, another Scottish distillery, is adding QR codes to its labels, allowing retailers and consumers to check for authenticity with their smartphones.

    In October, Buffalo Trace placed security tags inside the aluminum caps on some bottles in its highly sought-after Antique Collection line; scanning the tags with a special app will tell you if, and when, the bottle has been opened before. It’s a start, but such tags work only when a bottle has been opened — so it’s no help for retailers or collectors who want to hold on to it for a while.

    For now, the best, if imperfect, response is for buyers to change their expectations when hunting for a good deal. Simple rules apply: Do your homework. Never trust a pushy stranger, especially online. And always be willing to pass on a bottle that looks too good to be true, because it probably is.

  23. #1698
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    NY
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    1,738
    Thats funny. I've always thought that counterfeiting the Van Winkles would be pretty easy. Finding convincing bottles, wax and making labels wouldn't be hard. Add the expense of one bottle of legit 15 year as a model to mix up a convincing blend of other cheaper wheated bourbons. I guess I'm just not the criminal type.

  24. #1699
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Babylon
    Posts
    11,796


    if anybody wants to geek out

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