Mixing swimming with weightlifting

[RootSkier]

Generally, I think it's difficult to gain strength while if you are maintaining caloric deficit ("dieting").

The exception might be if you are just generally not strong at all. Novice trainees always improve faster, as long as they have a good program.

As far as the eating, don't think of it as a diet, just change the QUALITY of food you eat....quit eating processed shit and refined carbs (bread pasta rice potatoes). Eat a bunch of meat, veggies, nuts/seeds, olive oil, and some fruit and find a GOOD training program (it MUST have squats and deadlifts or it sucks) and you can gain strength and lose fat at the same time.

If, at any time, you find yourself eating "light" shit, "diet" shit, fake sugar, or anything you can't pronounce, throw it away and find some meat.

[Tippster]

^^ When I was a lifeguard, we had to tread water for 45 mins with a 10lb brick held over our head. It was difficult, but not impossible with the right technique.

Yeah I'm gonna call BS on that. 2-3 minutes, tops. Your arms would fall asleep from lack of bloodflow after 10 minutes.

Don't believe me? Hold a 10 pound brick over your head standing on dry land and see how long you can do it.

[OSECS]

Sure. Only a small part of the food you eat is needed for building/rebuilding muscle cells, veins and their components. Most "weight class" atheletes in strength sports such as olympic weight lifting and wrestling reduce their percentage of body fat and increase strength while going into peak events.

If you're not feeding the engine it doesn't gain strength. You burn fat while tearing muscle fiber apart. You've got to eat protein to build strength.

[emtnate]

You sure about that? I can't imagine holding my hands over my head while treading for 45 minutes without any weight, regardless of the kick. But, yeah, he was using either a flutter or dolphin (butterfly) kick.

edit: just Googled lifegaurd tests and found this:


This is a far cry from the test you mentioned...

There is the actual test as you mentioned which was no big deal. I had been an Ellis certified guard at a resort, and ended up taking the Red Cross class for a 1.0 credit class while I was a guard at our college pool. The instructor was also the water polo coach and wanted to prove a point about technique. So we all held the brick just above our face, and had to keep out nose and eyes above the water level. Completely different kick pattern than the flutter or dolphin kick. More like riding a bike with a stronger kick down and out. We had to hold it during the whole swimming portion of that class. We were also required to fully immobilize someone in deep water with waves, so we had to tread water and be able to perform the rescue with both hands at once.

[EarlyWood]

We were also required to fully immobilize someone in deep water with waves, so we had to tread water and be able to perform the rescue with both hands at once.

You should hit em with the brick.

[Benny Profane]

What do you mean you don't "do" weights with your legs? I wasn't aware you could lift weights without using your legs, unless you do something stupid like sit down to lift.

You shouldn't neglect strength training on an entire half of your body, especially the more important half.

You both don't understand. I use my legs for my aerobic exercise, which is, of course, the most important and healthiest part of my exercise regime. I bicycle a lot, and, when I'm constrained to the gym, spin bike and, well, spin bike. I see no reason to build muscle and strength below the waist. Trust me, after 3000 road miles a year and much spinning, I'm lean and mean down there. I have passed by a lot of events in skiing history that would have messed up my knees if I didn't do this. Why add bulk? Anyway, why add bulk anywhere else? My answer to that is (a) it looks good, and (b) it's serious protection during impacts when we participate in our favorite sport. Many a time I've gotten off the ground and been real happy I had muscle around my strengthened joints that just took a bad hit in the woods. I'm convinced that bicycle racers break collarbones all the time because they are so girly above the waist. But, the other side of that story is that I'm carrying stupid useless weight when I get smoked on the bike.

Yeah I'm gonna call BS on that. 2-3 minutes, tops. Your arms would fall asleep from lack of bloodflow after 10 minutes.

Don't believe me? Hold a 10 pound brick over your head standing on dry land and see how long you can do it.

There's a lot of swimming and, therefore, circulation going on there. I should try that.

[NippleHighPow]

Walk on a tread mill twice a week for 40 minutes at a intensity of 4 mph and an incline of 4 degrees. For most people that keeps you metabolic max heart rate at about 50% so that you are burning almost entirely stored fat after the first 20 minutes of walking without having any major muscle break down. It does jack shit for you're lungs and there are ways burn more calories, but it is ideal for losing just fat and maintaining muscle mass without lactic break down that running does. I did this when I was training for a body building comp and it worked wonders. For the record I didn't do the comp in the end b/c they're just weird in my opinion but getting in shape for it was actually pretty intense.

[RootSkier]

I see no reason to build muscle and strength below the waist...... Anyway, why add bulk anywhere else? My answer to that is (a) it looks good, and (b) it's serious protection during impacts when we participate in our favorite sport.

Holy fucking shit.

[karpiel]

Holy fucking shit.

Agreed.

I'm sure this guy is training for Mr. Olympia or whatever the fuck it's called, I mean look at that jackass, doing a full body strength exercise.


And another, oh the humanity, if only this poor guy knew all he needed to do was ride a bike, he must waste so much time with those silly leg exercises.


And this guy, where to begin, just look at him, pure bulk.

[Benny Profane]

Holy shit back. Read anything about Lance's or any other bikers training regime DURING the prime of their careers, and you will find that they don't do that shit. Lance avoided any weight build above the waist, because, again why?? Totally not needed. You found publicity and advertising pictures that Lance used to sell some stupid energy drink modified by retouchers.

Read his first book, and listen to many commenting on why he bounced back so well. He was a swimmer in his early career, picked up biking when he did tris, like biking more, but carried the swimmers upper body weight into his early career, to his detriment. But, he's a freak, so he won the WC. Along comes cancer, strips his body down, and it's built back up to scientific standards for the Tour. And, it did not include a free weight or machine anywhere.

[karpiel]

Holy shit back. Read anything about Lance's or any other bikers training regime DURING the prime of their careers, and you will find that they don't do that shit. Lance avoided any weight build above the waist, because, again why?? Totally not needed. You found publicity and advertising pictures that Lance used to sell some stupid energy drink modified by retouchers.

Read his first book, and listen to many commenting on why he bounced back so well. He was a swimmer in his early career, picked up biking when he did tris, like biking more, but carried the swimmers upper body weight into his early career, to his detriment. But, he's a freak, so he won the WC. Along comes cancer, strips his body down, and it's built back up to scientific standards for the Tour. And, it did not include a free weight or machine anywhere.

Yea, he sacrificed upper body strength and swimming ability to better his career. Are you sacrificing leg strength to help with something else?

I see no reason to build muscle and strength below the waist.

[Benny Profane]

Yea, he sacrificed upper body strength and swimming ability to better his career. Are you sacrificing leg strength to help with something else?

Yes, for heart strength. That is the most important part of the body to exercise. I have plenty of leg strength from biking. Why more? I sit on my ass all day for work, and skiing is skiing. That requires skiing. The exercise I do elsewhere just preps me for that.

[mangle]

Couple questions and comments...

First, while I understand that cyclists intentionally stay small up top, I'm curious as to why track and field sprinters are so ripped. I wouldn't think swinging your arms helps that much when running? For the record, I've never been a sprinter, but I have run a 58 minute 10 mile.

Second, coming from a pretty intensive swimming background (highschool and college, though D3 was kind of a joke compared to HS), I can tell you that it's easy to build muscle while swimming quite a bit. If you keep the yardage to about 5k/day or less, you'll have no issues at all. It's worth noting that I've never been able to swim for shit when I'm lifting hard.

On the other side, say you crank the yardage up to about 15k/day... You'll struggle to maintain weight no matter what you do. I would eat 10k+ calories a day while doing that and still lose weight pretty quickly.

Also worth noting... I'm a snowboarder because I have issues with my knees. I was a breaststroker (great pickup line in the swimming world, btw), so I had lots of strain and several partial tears on that ligament on the inside (I think the MCL?). Breaststroke kick is very similar to the eggbeater kick the lifeguards/water polo players are talking about. It'll put a ton of strain on your knees, so it's probably something to be avoided in a ski workout.

[Rubicon]

I was wondering if swimming would be beneficial during my off-days, or harmful?

Cardio will help your muscles recover from hard workouts. I don't think any workout routine is complete without regular cardio, and I definitely wouldn't recommend heavy weightlifting for extended periods without regular cardio. Presumably your loads will be getting heavier during this three months. You should be strengthening your CV system as well as your muscles.

I have mixed lifting and swimming on off days with good results. I would recommend it if you are so inclined. But my best results lifting have come from doing cardio right after my lifting routine. During periods when I was doing a split routine(upper body one day, lower body two days later, repeat) I would swim on days I worked upper body and climbed stairs on days I worked lower body. The purpose was to engorge the muscles with blood and facilitate recovery. I was never sore and had some of my greatest gains in both strength and size while doing this.

Of course there are a lot of other factors that play into this as well like getting enough sleep, proper diet, limiting alcohol intake, avoiding stress, flexibility, etc. But all other things being equal, yes, definitely incorporate cardio into your lifting routine.

[RootSkier]

Cardio will help your muscles recover from hard workouts. I don't think any workout routine is complete without regular cardio, and I definitely wouldn't recommend heavy weightlifting for extended periods without regular cardio. Presumably your loads will be getting heavier during this three months. You should be strengthening your CV system as well as your muscles.

Strength is hard to increase but durable. Endurance is easy to gain and quick to leave.

You do the math.

Benny delivers pizzas with an automatic transmission.

[Rubicon]

Strength is hard to increase but durable. Endurance is easy to gain and quick to leave.

It's not endurance I am thinking of. It's the strain on his heart that needs to be addressed as his muscles strengthen and he is able to lift ever increasing loads, putting more demand on his CV system. Cardio also helps with muscle recovery, which in turn will help his lifting.

Realistically, in the space of three months, I wouldn't expect him to be able to hurt himself, lifting without including cardio(I would be interested to hear somebody who has more expertise in this area chime in. XtrPickels?) But if he can strengthen his CV system at the same time he is working his skeletal muscles, that would be my preference. And as I mentioned, there are other benefits to be had incorporating cardio beyond just increasing endurance.

[RootSkier]

I'm confused. Have you ever lifted anything heavy?

I'm not denying that it's good and worthwhile to be able to ride your bike a long ways, run a little, or maybe even skin for a few hours.

But seriously, if someone has a goal and that goal is "get strong" then it will do zero harm to lose the "cardio" side of training for a few months. In fact, it will be greatly beneficial.

[Rubicon]

But seriously, if someone has a goal and that goal is "get strong" then it will do zero harm to lose the "cardio" side of training for a few months. In fact, it will be greatly beneficial.

Everything I have read and experienced would indicate otherwise and there are people who know more about this than me who I believe would disagree with you on this point. Maybe they will chime in.

[jfost]

yeah, this thread should be about goals

if you are trying to gain mass, you need to take in more calories than you expend, and swimming burns a ton of calories, as does running. Both of these will work against your size goals. They guys who do this professionally work in phases and sometimes get kind of "fat" in the off season, but you need that to max out your gains. This isn't really healthy of course, lots of stress on your CV & nervous system etc.

if you are trying to gain strength, you can/should mix in cardio. You may sacrifice some top end power, but you can stay lean and ripped and still build a ton of strength. That's why Benny's statement was weird. Of course you want to increase leg strength, maybe not bulk, but strength is good.

I hate doing leg work, but it is so helpful for all the fun sports so you gotta soldier on!

rubi: serious weight work has huge CV stress, and therefore increases vital capacity, blood volume, RBC counts, etc. You can get a de facto "cardio" workout with supersets and low rep max outs. It sacrifices endurance for strength gains, and thus "tunes" your system differently, but the gains are measurable CV wise.

I'm kind of shrimpy though, as I have found it hard to lift as an adult. Biking/running/rec. sports is easier to fit into a busy work/life balance...

[DHogg]

It's all about speeding up your metabolism. For serious.

Weights a 3/4 times a week, + a little cardio in any form + fast metabolism= results.

[EarlyWood]

This would be a good time for bodybuilder/skier Jack London to come back.
Anyone remember him?

[Benny Profane]

Unless you're still playing a contact sport, what do you need bulk and strength for? Football players die early with cardiac problems in most cases because of this. Furgetabout body builders.

[RootSkier]

Why do you need strength? I can think of lots of reasons.

Bulk is something else entirely, but if the OP wants to put on a little mass there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

I fail to see why you wouldn't want to be strong, though. Someone who is 5'10" and weighs 150 is going to be fucking weak, no two ways about it. If they are an ultrarunner or something, fine, then being weak might suit their goals.

But if you seriously don't think a bigger squat or bigger deadlift will help your skiing then I don't even know what to say.

To compare someone who wants to be strong with football players and body builders is just plain retarded.

How does it feel to be weaker than this chick?

[Benny Profane]

But if you seriously don't think a bigger squat or bigger deadlift will help your skiing then I don't even know what to say.

So, when you ski, you do, like 8-10 really powerful turns and then rest a lot?

Try climbing steep hills on a bike all summer pushing Benny's fat ass. Works the legs, heart and lungs. Tell me what else you need to ski.

Edit: a strong stomach and back.

Nothing sillier looking in the gym than one of those meatheads with 150 pounds of muscle above the waist supported by skinny legs.

[Tuckerman]

Unless you're still playing a contact sport, what do you need bulk and strength for? Football players die early with cardiac problems in most cases because of this. Furgetabout body builders.

Football players and bodybuilders are not the same. Bulking up and getting "cut" are two different animals. Rootskier can explain the differences better then I can but I'll try. At my gym most of the guys are competitive power lifters who actually want to carry extra weight. We have two guys who are competitive bodybuilders they want to get "cut" they do lots of stuff like curls and it looks to me they do all their lifting to muscle failure. The power lifters who are not fat and trying to get in a weight class I would say are the most functionally fit. There is a poster of a doods weird looking (looks like someones ass) lower back muscle at the gym that says "back muscles are to power lifters what biceps are to bodybuilder"