2009/2010 Official Alaska Snowpack/Conditions Thread

[dk_alaskan]

For Ramblin

http://www.cnfaic.org/advisories/current.php

AVALANCHE DISCUSSION
Todays avalanche hazard has increased since yesterday. Very strong east winds gusting over 60 mph and heavy snow ranging from 10 to 30+ inches is hammering our snowpack with stress. Yes, lots of new snow and lots of weight added to our snowpack in the last 24 hours. Today's avalanche hazard is HIGH. Very dangerous avalanche conditions exist. Travel in avalanche terrain is not recommended. Natural avalanches likely; human-triggered avalanches very likely. Areas of most concern lie on steep rolevers and near ridge tops and in areas that rain falls on new snow. This would be the case if the freeze line goes above 1000 ft.

We know we have weak snow under our current snowpack. I would play it safe today and give the snowpack time to adjust. This will make for better long term stability for our snowpack in the end. We need to let this weather system play out. Stay off and away from steep slopes today.

The early season snow pack in South Central Alaska is always full of surprises because it needs time to adjust. Every year, people get caught off guard in November and December because they are trying to use Turn again Pass like they do in the middle of winter. The facts are that the snowpack is not ready for aggressive skiing, snowboarding, or snowmachining yet. The snowpack is still young, give it some time to adjust over the next couple weeks and next couple of storms. Moderate terrain for a moderate snowpack.

[RambleOn]

haha thanks man

Alyeska reporting 41+inches at the top in 24hrs. woohoo!

[matso]

I wonder if they will open the top tomorrow, or just chair 4 again. Either way, should be fun.

[Ted Shred]

Avalanche hits the highway by Seward.

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/kenai/story/1031040.html

[RambleOn]

Today's advisory from http://www.cnfaic.org/advisories/current.php?id=

"AVALANCHE DISCUSSION

For those of you out yesterday you saw the craziness. Widespread collapsing snowpacks. If the collapse was near a steep slope an avalanche resulted. Widespread natural avalanche activity yesterday from Girdwood to Seward. Lots of avalanche activity reported in the Summit Lake area. A large natural avalanche buried the Seward Highway 21 miles north of Seward. No surprise that we saw this much activity yesterday with that much new snow and weight added to the snowpack in a 48 hour time period. All that weight and 4 plus feet of snow is resting on the very week faceted snow that fell and formed earlier this month.

The cooler temperature and the subsiding snowfall will reduce the avalanche hazard slightly today. However, the uncertainty and the increasing winds will keep us at a CONSIDERABLE hazard rating. Dangerous avalanche conditions still exist today. Careful snowpack evaluation, cautious routefinding and conservative decision-making will be essential. Natural avalanches possible; human-triggered avalanches likely today.

We know we have week snow under our current snowpack. I would play it safe again today and give the snowpack time to adjust. These types of storms are what put the Kenai and Chugach Ranges on the map. Large heavy wet storms that hammer the steep terrain we all love. This snow will likely settle and paste itself in tight. Most importantly we have to remember what this storm is setting on. The week faceted crystals at the ground will compress and metamorphose over time. We just need to give them time!

If you have observations for us send them using the observations button on the advisory page of our website. This concludes today's advisory. The next advisory will be Sunday, November 29th. Have a great day."


Careful on the roads today I heard a ton of sirens when i was out this morning at 6 a.m.

Also, anyone know a good site for Hatchers conditions? I can never seem to find one.

[mattinak]

Yea there isn't really an avalanche forecast for hatchers that i know of, every so often chugach state park website posts up an update in witch they usually say something about the snowpack.

[Keith Wigdor]

SAT 11/28 it is balls deep out there. new 48" is still reactive , but showing signs of improvement , as are the facets near the ground , as this load is compacting, compressing and aiding in the rounding of sharp crystals at our ground/snowpack interface.

more snow is coming Sun. This is a good thing.

some Hatchers weather beta is linked off of CNFAIC

TGR lacks any real AK conditions data..,I would look to T TIPS AK Thread for a wealth of info.
Also Snowest Ak forum gets alot of hatchers updates from the mullet perspective

BE SAFE

[RambleOn]

SAT 11/28 it is balls deep out there. new 48" is still reactive , but showing signs of improvement , as are the facets near the ground , as this load is compacting, compressing and aiding in the rounding of sharp crystals at our ground/snowpack interface.

more snow is coming Sun. This is a good thing.

some Hatchers weather beta is linked off of CNFAIC

TGR lacks any real AK conditions data..,I would look to T TIPS AK Thread for a wealth of info.
Also Snowest Ak forum gets alot of hatchers updates from the mullet perspective

BE SAFE

Im an avy noob but wouldnt round crystals be less safe in that they would provide less friction and an easier platform to move on than jagged ones?

[AKturnanburn]

Im an avy noob but wouldnt round crystals be less safe in that they would provide less friction and an easier platform to move on than jagged ones?

Wrong. You better start reading and get a basic understanding of snowpack and crystal structure/metamorphasis.

For hatcher go to www.hatcherpasslodge.com near the bottom there is a link to the weather station near the mine with a series of graphs.

[AK]

Im an avy noob but wouldnt round crystals be less safe in that they would provide less friction and an easier platform to move on than jagged ones?

fair enough... in the avy sense, the term rounding references the bonding, or sintering of the snow crystals. as they 'round' and neck together over time, they actually strengthen the layer. the 'sharp' crystals are facets, or depth hoar and are about as cohesive as a handful of sugar. depth hoar forms at the base of the snowpack and is an extremely weak layer that can be persistent as hell. take a look at those links; the little video things should clear your questions up.

if you're not already confused, here's some more to chew on. a round can go to a facet, and likewise, a facet can go to a round. the catch is, rounds-to-facets happen relatively quick while it takes much longer for a facet to go to a round. when people talk about a 'persistent' weak layer, often they are referencing these facets that haven't had the time or right conditions to transform back to rounds.

if you were to have little round balls under the snowpack, say like graupel, then yes, you'd be correct in your assumption that the snow would move easier on them. however, the mention of 'round crystals' isn't referring to this.

[RambleOn]

Thank you for clearing things up for me AK.

[Bdawg]

How's Eaglecrest...?

[dk_alaskan]

B, you in ak now?

[treeskier69]

Anybody want to skin or sled Turnagain Sunday?

[Ted Shred]

Anybody want to sled Turnagain Sunday?

You may want to read this.
http://www.avalanche.org/data.php?da...99&sort=&id=53


This slope is above the up track to Seattle creek and the run out is hard to avoid down in the flats without good knowledge of the area. Please do not underestimate the potential of that area.

[carpathian]

Remember that video from a few years ago with that avy coming after the snowmachiners...? Gnarly.

I though this one was interesting for the Sunburst crowd

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAcsk9zYTr8"]YouTube- Turnagain Pass Avalanche[/ame]

[dk_alaskan]

One of the reasons i started this thread Ted was to get the info out there for people to make good decisions on bc travel, but, from the sounds of things already, that isn't the case. I wonder if Seward Hwy has opened back up after all the avi action.

Treeskier, you are going to be hard pressed to find people that have even the faintest knowledge about avalanches and avi conditions who are going to be willing to go out in the bc--4+ feet of fresh HEAVY snow on an already weak unstable layer is a recipe for disaster.

[AKturnanburn]

treeskier, you are going to be hard pressed to find people that have even the faintest knowledge about avalanches and avi conditions who are going to be willing to go out in the bc--4+ feet of fresh HEAVY snow on an already weak unstable layer is a recipe for disaster.

Unless you stay in the flats. Braaaaaap braap brap brp br [shit]

also there is an easy early season route, that goes nearer the powerlines, that is out of harms way until the uproute. But your right to get over the top you look straight up some prime avy terrain before you hit it, thats why I always (usually) let the yahoo slednecks with short tracks go first. The ripping of a trench 4ft deep with a 500lb sled is a pretty good trigger test.

[Keith Wigdor]

[QUOTE=AKturnanburn]Unless you stay in the flats. Braaaaaap braap brap brp br [shit]

[dk_alaskan]

way to safely get sum KW.

AKturnanburn, never explored the powered side, how is it or'yonder?

[treeskier69]

plenty of good sleddin out there thats pretty safe. Good pow sleddin up there today.Startin to get a little more tracked out though.

[AKturnanburn]

how is it or'yonder?

Different, the drainage layout of the tour side is kindof reversed when you go into seattle creek. Starting at the top and having to make it back out with only one real uproute, that is semi technical, can throw a wrench into a lot of the bigger lines higher up the drainage. once you master the uproute from the creek it opens up a whole world of possibilities, but to be honest some of my better days have been just riding sunnyside (but it is a long lap). I wish we could switch sides every year, that way we could explore so much more of the tin can and bertha creek drainages, and find new and fun zones. It would be pretty sketch though at the bottom of sunburst, in that terrain trap, with sleds ripping up above you as you try to get through. Also I think the layout of Seattle creek is more condusive so sleds than the steeper, narrower areas on the tour side.

[AK]

I though this one was interesting for the Sunburst crowd

Feb 23, 2008 Sunburst avy (from friend's camera)

[Ted Shred]

Agreed, there is plenty of room to go brraapp around in the flats and be in a safe situation. That is why I said that with good knowledge of the area it can be done, but I also think that it is not that hard to be underneath a huge slope without knowing it if you are not sure where you are or new to the area. With that said, I really like riding my sled near the power lines and the highway when it is deep, super fun.

Terrain management is what will keep you alive when things are spicy.

[Ted Shred]

One of the reasons i started this thread Ted was to get the info out there for people to make good decisions on bc travel.

Fully backing it, bro!

never explored the powered side, how is it or'yonder?

When it is good, it is really good!