Knee Strength

**char** · 10-27-2003, 10:42 PM

I know I've got knee problems, but I don't have the cash to get to a physical therapist. I have some sort of chronic hyperextension of my knees and when I was under my parents insurance I went a few times back in high school. They had me do a bunch of exercises to strengthen the muscles surrounding my knee. The big problem for me seems to be muscular imbalance.

So, since there are a plethora of people on this board with knee injuries, any advice, good websites, workout routines?

**Dexter Rutecki** · 10-27-2003, 10:54 PM

No insurance? With an ortho's recommendation they usually cover a fair amount of PT.
Straight leg lifts and against resistance while standing, maybe leg curls, but the best for me is skating.

**altagirl** · 10-28-2003, 09:15 AM

You said you have some sort of muscle imbalance - that would definitely affect which sort of exercises you do. Since you said your problem is with hyperextenstion, I'd guess that means your quads are too strong in relation to the strength of your hamstrings? So you should do lots of hamstring exercises.

**jayfrizzo** · 10-28-2003, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
but the best for me is skating.

**truth** · 10-28-2003, 09:25 AM

Here ya go.

**Benny Profane** · 10-28-2003, 09:47 AM

Bicycling. Lots of cycling.

**altagirl** · 10-28-2003, 09:51 AM

If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help.

I don't remember what the ratio is supposed to be, but I'm sure you can find it somewhere online. Go to the gym, figure out what your quad to hamstring strength ratio is and lift weights until you balance it out.

**britney** · 10-28-2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by altagirl
If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help.

I don't remember what the ratio is supposed to be, but I'm sure you can find it somewhere online. Go to the gym, figure out what your quad to hamstring strength ratio is and lift weights until you balance it out.

quad to hamstring should be 3:2 -- for example, if youre lifting 90 on a quad extension, you should do 60 on the hamstring curl. (90/3 = 30, 30x2 = 60).

yes i like math and exercise.

-brit

**Strider** · 10-28-2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by altagirl
If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help.

I don't remember what the ratio is supposed to be...

Altagirl is right. Don't do a ton of biking and expect to see a balnce of your leg muscle. Here is my advice:

Exercising opposing muscle groups to obtain muscle balance does not mean developing equal strength in the agonist and antagonist muscles. Certain muscle groups are physiologically and biomechanically stronger or more powerful than their opposing muscle groups. The ratio you should aim for is 3:2 (e.g., extend 120lbs and curl 80lbs). Take it slow and make sure you are performing your exercises slowly (2sec to contract, 2 sec hold, and 4sec lowering of the weight) and biomechanically correct.

Good luck

**Strider** · 10-28-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by britney
quad to hamstring should be 3:2 -- for example, if youre lifting 90 on a quad extension, you should do 60 on the hamstring curl. (90/3 = 30, 30x2 = 60).

Damn, Britney beat me to it.

**britney** · 10-28-2003, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Strider
Damn, Britney beat me to it.

strider you must be new -- welcome! LOOOOOOve your name! 12/17/03

**Viva** · 10-28-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by britney
yes i like math...
-brit

Hey, Baby...wanna see my linear function?

**Viva** · 10-28-2003, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by altagirl
[B]If you have a muscle imbalance and your quads are too strong bicycling isn't going to help. /B]

Actually, no. If you know how to ride and what kind of riding to do, you can work the hammys pretty good.

**Strider** · 10-28-2003, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by Viva
Actually, no. If you know how to ride and what kind of riding to do, you can work the hammys pretty good.

Yes, what you say is true but we have to look at the practicality of the situation. Only a small percent of the cycling communinty actually knows how to pull on the up stroke (not sure if this is the correct techincal jargon?). Most cyclist insist on pounding it out by applying as much pressure as possible to the down stroke. This is all of course my humble opinion.

KQ · 10-28-2003, 11:43 AM

Knee Info

**altagirl** · 10-28-2003, 11:53 AM

I didn't say you wouldn't use hamstrings at all, but cycling is not a good hamstring isolation exercise no matter how you're doing it.

**altagirl** · 10-28-2003, 11:54 AM

Agreed though, that if you're clipped in and making round pedal strokes you're getting a better all over leg workout than if you're just mashing pedals.

**Arty50** · 10-28-2003, 12:05 PM

Shit, I'm a bit out of balance.

My last set of quads is around 260. My last set of ham curls is only 140 or so. I've had weak hamstrings for a while though and they are getting better. Plus the good news is 260 is the entire stack on the quad extension machine. Lot's of room left on the ham curl stack.

**Dexter Rutecki** · 10-28-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by jayfrizzo

I thought those were OUR pictures.

**gonzo** · 10-28-2003, 01:05 PM

1. Assumptions have been made that the imbalance is hamstring/quad - quite probable that the imbalance is inner/outer quad, which would create knee probs as well. Had surgery myself for a derivation of this 6 months ago...

2. Hamstring curls and leg extensions will never be recommended for strengthening bad knees. They load incredible amounts of pressure on the knee and on the cartilage under the kneecap (which is probably what it fucked anyways) and the workout obtained can be achieved as well or better in other ways.

Straight leg raises - no knee stress - good quad workout. Slap some weights on your ankles and turn your foot out and in to mix it up.

Balance squats - put one foot on a chair behind you and get the other out in front - imagine your ankle is in a ski boot and don't flex it forward - drop your hips and pivot down at the knee - repeat in a controlled manner, keeping your knee over your foot. Burns wicked good. Add a hop in the air or weight to make it more x-treme.

Tuck squat - start in a seated position - fold at the waist and gently rock up into a tuck position - arms forward and everything - again imagine that your feet are in boots and don't flex forward at the ankle. Keep your knee over your foot and drop your ass. Hold for as long as you can, rock from side to side to shift the burn, make airplane noises for effect.

**altagirl** · 10-28-2003, 01:11 PM

All my physical therapists have recommended hamstring curls after surgery. No more weighted leg extensions - I've heard that pretty much universally - just never heard of problems with hamstring curls.

**altagirl** · 10-28-2003, 01:13 PM

and yes, this is all a shot in the dark since he hasn't specified what type of imbalance he has....

**Strider** · 10-28-2003, 03:23 PM

The assumption we are working off of is that the young man has a chronic case of hyperextension not a patella tracking problem.

**powpig** · 10-28-2003, 05:57 PM

Nothing better than running sprints. Have had both my ACLs done, do a ton of Mt Biking but can't really jog, too much of an up and down pounding of the knees. But sprinting is more of an extension than up & down motion. Try to find an ultimate frisbee game or just go run some sprints on grass. Windsprints like MLB players do. Run a sprint, walk back, repeat.

**gonzo** · 10-28-2003, 08:01 PM

Originally posted by altagirl
All my physical therapists have recommended hamstring curls after surgery. No more weighted leg extensions - I've heard that pretty much universally - just never heard of problems with hamstring curls.

i was told the exact opposite (howard head p.t. & steadman)

strider - good point...