Any Ski Areas NOT Run by Assholes?

[focus]

Pain point? It's a useful data point for how considerate the area management is to the lower income/cheap/pass holding skier, i.e. those who doesn't eat in the restaurant every day. Those are the majority of the skiers here and managment that doesn't like them are "assholes"

Thanks for clearing that up. You really helped me there. I was pretty lost until I realized that it was more a "useful data point" and less a "pain point." Are you really this fucking dense?

It strikes me as a little bit ironic that my point apparently went "zooming" past your head.

[Hugh Conway]

It strikes me as a little bit ironic that my point apparently went "zooming" past your head.

Is it hard to ski with your head up your ass?

You can't figure out how to warranty ski pants among a myriad of other simple tasks, why would you be able to figure out this?

[focus]

Right. That's pretty accurate.

What exactly are you lunging at, Hugh? And for god's sake, why?

[sticky_wicket]

Any area that isn't your home mountain is always run better

Clearly you have never been to Argentina.

[cud]

It's a useful data point for how considerate the area management is to the lower income/cheap/pass holding skier, i.e. those who doesn't eat in the restaurant every day. Those are the majority of the skiers here and managment that doesn't like them are "assholes"

Way to be fucking stupid, dickfuck.
Most "skiers" here are urban upper incomers who like to buy gear and go to the next "cool" place.

BTW Hugh - what have you ever done, aside from following others?

[Hugh Conway]

BTW Hugh - what have you ever done, aside from following others?

acquired some sweet internet stalkers

What exactly are you lunging at, Hugh? And for god's sake, why?

What exactly was your point?

[focus]

Which point? Where I was commenting on you being deliberately obtuse? Or where I was remarking on how the generic consumer makes sweeping, final, often tragic pronouncements about an institution or individual on relatively inconsequential bases? I mean, shit, I don't go to a ski area to eat lunch. Not to invalidate THEIR point - but it's interesting, nonetheless. A useful data point, even.

[Severine]

Are you kidding? Ever ski at MRG or Sugarbush? Do you like having your ticket scanned EVERY run, even if there are only ten people riding the chair, and you've been running laps for six hours? That's what happens at the 'Bush. MRG is a community of diverse owners, running an experiment that just happens to be a success. There are assholes in every community, but i'd argue that on the whole, Sugarbush is run by the assholes, MRG is run by a bunch of freaks. But, freaks in a good way.

So a ski area active in loss prevention = asshole in your book?
It's not just to check passes; they use that data for other means as well in projecting costs/usage/etc.

Just curious. I realize it's a minor inconvenience, but I can't see how that automatically translates to asshole.

[dumpy]

Are you kidding? Ever ski at MRG or Sugarbush? Do you like having your ticket scanned EVERY run, even if there are only ten people riding the chair, and you've been running laps for six hours? That's what happens at the 'Bush. MRG is a community of diverse owners, running an experiment that just happens to be a success. There are assholes in every community, but i'd argue that on the whole, Sugarbush is run by the assholes, MRG is run by a bunch of freaks. But, freaks in a good way.

So a ski area active in loss prevention = asshole in your book?
It's not just to check passes; they use that data for other means as well in projecting costs/usage/etc.

Just curious. I realize it's a minor inconvenience, but I can't see how that automatically translates to asshole.

Severine nailed exactly what I thought when I read VTCBC's post. The pass scanning for a resort of that size really isn't unusual and isn't really a big deal to me. the lifties have always been cool when doing it and it adds maybe 4 seconds and a friendly "hello, hows your ski day" to my wait in the liftline. Fuck that sucks. What a bunch of dicks. How dare they create liftie/skier interaction.
Unfortunately I've never been the the Bush on a day when only 10 people are there, gotta say I might find it a bit annoying under those circumstances, but by no means rude or reason to write management off as assholes. There are enough ski area managers I think are assholes, no reason to add another one to the list for something incredibly minor.

BTW the MRG thing was kind of a joke

[Eleventy]

Maybe its just the business part that collides with the fun part and ends up making some pretty good people end up acting like or looking like assholes

I've never been a huge fan of the Boyne/Kircher employed management of Big Sky, especially when they do things like jack around with Dirtbag royalty and the Tram. I guess that in my opinion, managements become assholes when they favor the business over the fun for arbitrary reasons instead of valid business ones.

That being said, I've never had any real issues with Moonlight. They are a great counter-point to Big Sky, and I'm glad they get along better with each other these days. Also, Lost Trail straight up kicks ass. Fucking awesome place.

[vtbcskier]

Both points well taken, and I guess it's a bit harsh to use the ticket scanning business practice as an example of how corporate/assholeish a ski area is, however it seems like a joke when you are literally one of only a handful of skiers riding the lift and you're running laps all day. I'm not sure how this informs the company of usage/costs. The lift is already running. How's about the lifty just writes down "ten skiers on lift today." I feel embarrassed for the lifty. Plus, he's probably getting piss tested, and had to cut his hair to qualify for the job. Imagine that. No thanks!

[vtbcskier]

Severine nailed exactly what I thought when I read VTCBC's post. The pass scanning for a resort of that size really isn't unusual and isn't really a big deal to me. the lifties have always been cool when doing it and it adds maybe 4 seconds and a friendly "hello, hows your ski day" to my wait in the liftline. Fuck that sucks. What a bunch of dicks. How dare they create liftie/skier interaction.
Unfortunately I've never been the the Bush on a day when only 10 people are there, gotta say I might find it a bit annoying under those circumstances, but by no means rude or reason to write management off as assholes. There are enough ski area managers I think are assholes, no reason to add another one to the list for something incredibly minor.

BTW the MRG thing was kind of a joke

So a ski area active in loss prevention = asshole in your book?
It's not just to check passes; they use that data for other means as well in projecting costs/usage/etc.

Just curious. I realize it's a minor inconvenience, but I can't see how that automatically translates to asshole.

Above post was supposed to include this and the previous quote. Still stumbling about here, but picking it up along the way.

[Johnny Deep]

Are they still assholes if you give them your money?

[Shredhead]

I also have to give props to Aspen Ski Corp. All of the mountain managers are skiers. They do a lot of cool things that don't add to the bottom line. Like running Bell Chair on weekends and till 5pm in the spring, on nice days.

We pay a lot for our passes, but I don't hear many locals bitching about it and I don't see any moving to Vail.

[XavierD]

Kircher at crystals a good guy...

Kircher is about as low as you can go.
That guy has a higher sense of self importance and entitlement then everyone else in the state combined.

[monkfish]

Are you kidding? Ever ski at MRG or Sugarbush? Do you like having your ticket scanned EVERY run, even if there are only ten people riding the chair, and you've been running laps for six hours? That's what happens at the 'Bush. MRG is a community of diverse owners, running an experiment that just happens to be a success. There are assholes in every community, but i'd argue that on the whole, Sugarbush is run by the assholes, MRG is run by a bunch of freaks. But, freaks in a good way.

I've fairly recently become an MRG asshole/freak, limited experience with the 'Bush, but dumpy's point was how management there engages with the community and I think that's true and somewhat unusual. For one thing, Win Smith, Sugarbush president/CEO, is pretty active on a couple skiing message boards and seems to shoot straight from what I can tell. Yes he's also a former Wall St big shot running a business and trying to make money. I realize having a ticket scanned detracts from the sense of being completely one with nature that we get once we're finally scooting up the mountain on a HSQ, but I'm also a data pig by profession so I'm conflicted on this point.

[monkfish]

I managed to post my reply above before clicking through to the last page ... but what I said stands. p.s.

Both points well taken, and I guess it's a bit harsh to use the ticket scanning business practice as an example of how corporate/assholeish a ski area is, however it seems like a joke when you are literally one of only a handful of skiers riding the lift and you're running laps all day. I'm not sure how this informs the company of usage/costs. The lift is already running. How's about the lifty just writes down "ten skiers on lift today." I feel embarrassed for the lifty. Plus, he's probably getting piss tested, and had to cut his hair to qualify for the job. Imagine that. No thanks!

I can see skier-level data from low-traffic days being valuable too, both for near-term mountain ops and longer-term planning/forecasting. Maybe RFID is less intrusive in practice than bar-code scanning, but that's probably fodder for a separate thread. In fact I bet I'd find it already has been discussed here if I weren't boycotting those assholes at Ski Searchfunctionjong.

[DoWork]

Magic should be on this list. Jim is a pretty fuckin rad dude. Super nice and very unassuming, if nobody told you he ran the place, you'd have no idea. He was working and cooking burgers and dogs/ passing out beers on the volunteer days. Never hung out with a mt owner before but I feel like he's the exception to the rule.

[neckdeep]

To the O/P.

What makes someone an asshole.

Reason I ask is that many of the names I have seen here as examples of not being assholes, other people have said what an asshole they are.

And I am SURE that there are people who will say that at times I have been an asshole to them.

In the context of resort ownership, you are an asshole if you see the mountain as little more than marketing for McMansions and obscenely priced townhomes. You are an asshole if your plans to reap huge, one time, short-term profits off of real estate leverage the resort into a cycle of minimal profitablity and ever increasing lift ticket prices and price out the locals who supported the skiing in the first place. You are an asshole if you see customers as a captive market to be gouged with $10 burgers and $4 cans of pbr. You are an asshole if you continously raise prices without providing any increase in services, and, in fact, elimnate services like terrain parks. You are an asshole if your mountain has minimal grooming, no terrain park, no snowmaking, a handful of lifts and relatively few employees, yet you still charge as much for a day ticket as the resorts that have big infrastructure and employees costs. See, I know this cuz the local resort owner is a spoiled asshole brat with big plans that defy the logic of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

[uppernotmaster]

Magic should be on this list. Jim is a pretty fuckin rad dude. Super nice and very unassuming, if nobody told you he ran the place, you'd have no idea. He was working and cooking burgers and dogs/ passing out beers on the volunteer days. Never hung out with a mt owner before but I feel like he's the exception to the rule.

Not to mention he kills it on the hill too. Great skier & yes a great guy.

While I enjoy the Dead Pinhead I think we need a new CD for this year. That one was in there all season!

[Big Snowballs]

In the context of resort ownership, you are an asshole if you see the mountain as little more than marketing for McMansions and obscenely priced townhomes. You are an asshole if your plans to reap huge, one time, short-term profits off of real estate leverage the resort into a cycle of minimal profitablity and ever increasing lift ticket prices and price out the locals who supported the skiing in the first place. You are an asshole if you see customers as a captive market to be gouged with $10 burgers and $4 cans of pbr. You are an asshole if you continously raise prices without providing any increase in services, and, in fact, elimnate services like terrain parks. You are an asshole if your mountain has minimal grooming, no terrain park, no snowmaking, a handful of lifts and relatively few employees, yet you still charge as much for a day ticket as the resorts that have big infrastructure and employees costs. See, I know this cuz the local resort owner is a spoiled asshole brat with big plans that defy the logic of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Well said.
I think we need to form a Ski CO-OP.
Lets pool all our money together and run them like some Autonomist Collective. Imagine being able to take the entire family Skiing without breaking the bank. If only we lived in a perfect world.

[72Twenty]

My local hill is finally NOT run by assholes. It was for a long time, but they almost ran it into the ground and finally the bank took it from them. Local bank here in town. Instead of keeping it closed, the bank decided to run it themselves while looking for a buyer. This is the second season they have been running it, knowing that there are people in the local community that really appreciate it. They have been giving big discounts on season passes and are actually trying to promote it to the locals. The previous owners seemed like they couldn't care less about the locals; all their advertising and promotion went into Nebraska (where they are from) to try to get "vacationers". Now that the bank is running it (with help from the city and the University) it really feels like a "local" hill again.

[powder_prophet]

More praise for Monarch. I've never had a problem either eating sack lunches downstairs - though I have seen signs posted.

One more thing to add - if there were an award for best "ski ambassador" (you know, the guys/gals who greet and ride lifts for PR), I would nominate Monarch's Joe. I guarantee if you have been to the place more than once or twice, you have met Joe - and his joy for skiing is infectious.

Hehehe, I'm gonna agree on both points. Monarch is run by great people who give a shit about SKIING. Okay, maybe they are dicks about using their lodge for sack lunches. But I've eaten plently of lunches in the bar, and they are happy as long as you buy a pitcher or something. And besides, who the fuck really cares?!? Its about skiing; the on-mountain experience, and Monarch has that dialed. They do a great job of making really fun skiing out of the moderate terrain that they have.

And Joe is the man. That guy is always stoked, and we have a blast yelling back and forth on a deep day.

"WOOOOOOO, gotta love that Monarch Corbel!!!!!"

My local hill is finally NOT run by assholes. It was for a long time, but they almost ran it into the ground and finally the bank took it from them. Local bank here in town. Instead of keeping it closed, the bank decided to run it themselves while looking for a buyer. This is the second season they have been running it, knowing that there are people in the local community that really appreciate it. They have been giving big discounts on season passes and are actually trying to promote it to the locals. The previous owners seemed like they couldn't care less about the locals; all their advertising and promotion went into Nebraska (where they are from) to try to get "vacationers". Now that the bank is running it (with help from the city and the University) it really feels like a "local" hill again.

Really, really glad to hear that things have turned around up there. The Range is such a cool little spot. That place had everything going for it, EXCEPT good ownership. Seemed like they were completely counter-productive to making that place live up to its potential. Is it sill the same management crew?

And while my mind is on small WYO hills, I always got nothing but good vibes from both Hogadon above Casper (fantastic grooming!!!! good terrain, though unbearably short, and nice people working throughout the hill. Still bumping music at the lift!), and White Pine above Pinedale (great terrain, great snow, simple & affordable lift system [sometime one lift is all you need!]). Maybe I'm just waxing nostalgic, as White Pine was the home of my first true-blue powder day. I realize snow and terrain have nothing to do with ownership, and maybe some locals would disagree with having these two on the list, but the few times I skied at each were great experiences.

[cw]

baker absolutely. also some of the smaller places around the pnw, like hurricane, hemlock, manning park, cain and so on are rad...anywhere that relies on local community and caters to it, really. Whitewater has always seemed good too, but havent been since the change in ownership...

[mercuryhg]

A few years ago Big Mountain went from a ski area to a "mountain resort." I expect it to have gone downhill noticeably when I return this winter.

Now it's not even Big Mountain any more. POS.

Montana Snowbowl, where you have to love everything you hate about it. Well, except Pat MacKay, that one you just gotta tolerate. barely. Brad's just a shy guy, get that for an ex-doctor. Ronnie? She's just tired of the never ending generation of drunks I suppose. At least they bought it back in the day, and run it, and keep it running even in spite of everything. At least they didn't let Pat cut the new runs, and they almost follow the fall lines. I sure do miss the old bar, and the boils though.