Shop ground through my bases

[farmer]

So I took my 2nd hand (but unused) bro blems (happy, vitamin I?) in to get baseground and mounted, to what I was told by several people is the best shop around to get any work done. I got a call today, asking me to come down and take a look, as the bases were super thin, and they ground through the p-tex in one spot on the first pass when they went to try flatten the bases and get rid of all the little hairs that were sticking up from the base. the spot is just elow the tip, right where the running surface starts

what do I do now??? there is about a quarter size spot in the p-tex that is almost (as in 99.9% of the way) through to the core. they also noticed several other spots on the other ski that they figured were too thin to chance grinding that one. so i have 1 ski with a hole in the base, and about an inch of flat area along each edge, and still concave+ hairy in the middle, and another that is quite concave, covered in little p-tex hairs, with really thin bases. as in you can see the cross-hatch pattern from he glass/ carbon thin.

edit for more info: these were bought of the gearswap, not through pmgear. They were never used/ mounted, so they were essentially new. they were also blems, but I was told that the blem was just a thin spot in the top sheet (about a 1cm dimple, just below the tip (about 20cm below the hole) that is purely cosmetic. maybe thin bases was part of the blem that I just didn't know about. I don't know. since I didn't buy em off splat, I don't think I should be contacting him about it.

[Conundrum]

Maybe contact pmgear?

[JayPowHound]

A) Call Pat and find out the details about the skis you bought. As long as you know who you got them from, I would assume someone there should be able to track down the information about what they are. Ski's change hands. I'm sure he'd be happy to talk to whomever the current owner is about a pair of skis that he made.

B) Assuming he says your skis should be legit, insist that the shop replace them. If there wasn't anything wrong with them when you brought them in, and a major problem when they returned them to you... they should be held responsible. Who knows, maybe a jong shoprat ate the shit out of your bases with the belt grinder...

[Core Shot]

It may not be the shop.

Seriously.

I have seen it myself.

[Vitamin I]

...what do I do now???...

1. Edit the FIRST sentence in your post to say "my second-hand blem bro's" instead of "my new bro's". C'mon, be upfront and fair to the manufacturer in a blem situation.

2. Pursue your idea of dealing with the shop and original owner first (instead of the manufacturer) to determine if either of those parties were negligent/fraudulent. To that end...

...maybe thin bases was part of the blem that I just didn't know about. I don't know...

If you determine the original owner misrepresented the item when selling to you (intentional or not), and if that orginal owner refuses to work it out with you, then it seems OK to out that GearSwap seller.

3. If you cannot assign negligence/fraud to shop or original owner, then finally contact the manufacturer to ask if they have any blem warranty for 2nd-hand blem cases like yours, or ask if the manufacturer can provide any information that might prove the original owner was negligent/fraudulent in their representation of the item you bought.

4. If you determine nobody is accountable except yourself, then you could beg the manufacturer for charity/hookup (even if they are not obligated), or just ski your blems (your choice whether to have work done on them, or try to scrub off the hairs with coarse side of green sponge, or just ski them convex/hairy/blemmed), or else try to re-sell them with full disclosure and move on.

.

[tuco]

My bet is they were thin to begin with(came from factory that way)and not the shops fault as it should take quite a bit of grinding to wear through a base(especially on a brand new ski). You say the ski has two flat areas along edge with the patented 'p-tex skins' in the middle. That is a ski that is not flat, and if you are already though the base,I would most definetly say manufacturer error, not shops fault. I would contact original seller first(I don't think he knew about them either, because he said they needed a stone grind in his ad) and then PM Gear(who has probably already read this). Almost bought these skis also, kinda glad now the rug was pulled out from under my feet.

[Conundrum]

Sorry, when he said new, I was assuming new from pmgear. Didn't know they were second hand.

[farmer]

Sorry, when he said new, I was assuming new from pmgear. Didn't know they were second hand.

or that they were blems to begin with.

that's my bad. I was pretty pissed when i got home from the shop yesterday, didn't put all the info in the O.P. that I definatly should have. its edited to reflect that now.

anyways, I pm'ed pat. as I expected, he can't remember exactly every pair that they sell, so pm to origional owner to find out if I just misunderstood him, or what the deal with that was.

[tuco]

In the end these were unmounted skis, so brand new. But maybe the blem was the thin bases to begin with. Anyway you look at it, it sucks.

[huckster989]

it takes a lot of passes on a wet sander to get through the base. I have used the same test ski to set up our machine for the last 3 seasons as a result it has seen the belt and stone atleast 30 or 40 times and I have not gone through the bases. I doubt it was shop error unless the skis show tell tale signs that they forgot to turn on the coolant (ie melting / hairy bits in the ptex from it over heating) but from what you said about the bases already having hairs on them it sounds like the blem was probably a thin top sheet as well as bases and thats why PM gear never finished them off on the grinder.
just my opinion. you bought a blem from a second hand source (not manufacturer) you took a risk and it didn't pay off. hopefully they are not lhasas

[volklpowdermaniac]

Just for the record

These were:

Sold to original owner as BLEMS.

Never used or mounted.

Sold to current owner.

So when they got to current owner they had never been mounted or seen snow, but were still blems.


Is that correct? I'm seriously confused, but feel that clarification will help the situation tremendously.

[BSS]

Blems or new or whatever... All I know is ONE pass on a grinder will not rip a new ski to the wood. I mean, even with the stone/belt bone dry and the feeder arm cranked down to the max I still have a hard time imagining that being possible. If a base were that thin to begin with, a retard would be able to notice.

Either they're lying to you or your skis were already fooked to begin with.

[hutash]

What generation skis were these? I have heard of similar problems with the first couple seasons of Bros, but not with the later skis. I don't know who is responsible here, but I will say Pat and PM Gear are real stand up about their products, so I hope all turns out well.

Good luck.

[Shin-to-Win]

This is just speculation, but my guess is that the base on the Bros were concave to begin with and the shop was trying to get them flat.

My first season Bros came that way and I have always made a point to the shop techs when I bring them for a tune to NOT try to get them all the way flat since that would take off a bunch of base and cut down on the life of the skis.

Shop techs chime in here . . . would it be possible to measure the current edge depth to see how much the shop ground down the base? The starting edge depth should be pretty standard from the factory . . . unless they hit the skis with a grider on the way out the door.

[farmer]

Just for the record

These were:

Sold to original owner as BLEMS.

Never used or mounted.

Sold to current owner.

So when they got to current owner they had never been mounted or seen snow, but were still blems.


Is that correct? I'm seriously confused, but feel that clarification will help the situation tremendously.

exactly

shin-to-win:
I don't know which gen they are. they have the same red topsheets as the ones on the website do, if that helps.

they were trying to get the concave base mostly flat. they said that it probably wouldn't be all the way, but that there looked to be enough base (from looking at the thickness of the edges) that they should be able to get them pretty good.

[Teh Poacher]

it takes a lot of passes on a wet sander to get through the base. I have used the same test ski to set up our machine for the last 3 seasons as a result it has seen the belt and stone atleast 30 or 40 times and I have not gone through the bases. I doubt it was shop error unless the skis show tell tale signs that they forgot to turn on the coolant (ie melting / hairy bits in the ptex from it over heating) but from what you said about the bases already having hairs on them it sounds like the blem was probably a thin top sheet as well as bases and thats why PM gear never finished them off on the grinder.
just my opinion. you bought a blem from a second hand source (not manufacturer) you took a risk and it didn't pay off. hopefully they are not lhasas

Ditto.....

However, this could also be a case of an unseasoned belt + rookie operator. Improper set-up can do massive damage in only a few passes. Take some hi-res pic's of both skis (close-ups) and post em up on Photobucket. Inquiring minds want to know (see).

[farmer]

they still have the skis, as they still ned bindings put on. should have them soon enough, and then I'll post up pics

[Shin-to-Win]

It's hard to fault a shop for trying to make the skis flat. A savvy tech might have given them a quick look and asked if you wanted them to try to get them flat, but since the skis were new, it probably wasn't expected to be an issue.

Anyhow, the original question was what should you do now? Has the shop offered any kind of remedy? Can they cut into or grind into the base material and then baseweld a patch that would be thick enough to last a few seasons? You could go that route but it might be best to just ski them as is and see how they hold up before attempting a fix. Mine are on their fourth season and still going strong.

[GeezerSteve]

It may not be the shop.

Seriously.

I have seen it myself.

Me too. My buddy's early production 183 Bros have some spots on the base with very thin p-tex. Pro Ski advised against grinding them lest they would have exposed the stringers.

[old goat]

Skis with concave bases and thin bottoms are not "blems". Blems are cosmetic defects. Whoever first called these skis "blems" misrepresented the situation, knowingly or unknowingly. Sounds like a manufacturing defect that a reputable manufacturer should be willing to make right--ie new skis at a sizable discount--you pay the difference between what you paid for them and MSRP.

[time2clmb]

If it were me I would not let the shop charge any more money to do anything else to the skis before you sort out some sort of remedy to all of this and figure out who caused what. Plus, if you do end up sending the skis back to wherever, you are just going to end up taking the bindings back off anyways.

they still have the skis, as they still ned bindings put on. should have them soon enough, and then I'll post up pics

[volklpowdermaniac]

I would not have bindings mounted. Definitely not.

[jmf]

^ you think? I'm almost thinking this is some sort of troll - the guy has an issue with some new skis, but he's waiting until after he drills them to follow up with the seller or manufacturer? WTF?

[Tye 1on]

Skis with concave bases and thin bottoms are not "blems". Blems are cosmetic defects. Whoever first called these skis "blems" misrepresented the situation, knowingly or unknowingly. Sounds like a manufacturing defect that a reputable manufacturer should be willing to make right--ie new skis at a sizable discount--you pay the difference between what you paid for them and MSRP.

In general, i agree with you. And, this is all hypothetical since i don't know what the deal is/was with the skis in question.

FWIW, PMGear has, over the years, passed along a lot of skis with not insignificant manufacturing blems. I almost bought a pair. However, the exact condition of the 'blem' on each pair was fully disclosed up front, with color pictures with x's and arrows indicating what was messed up. And, as the significance of the blem went up, the price went down, way down. [example, there were a couple pairs with 'popped' edges, that sprung away from the base at the tips and tails, not on the running surface tho...]

Upside, many people, like me, got in to a pair of Bros at a price they could afford. And, the skis didn't just get thrown away.

Downside, if you buy a pair from other than the factory, you don't really fully know what kind of blems they were, unless the original buyer recalls and is upfront about it.

[skifishbum]

Skis with concave bases and thin bottoms are not "blems". Blems are cosmetic defects. Whoever first called these skis "blems" misrepresented the situation, knowingly or unknowingly. Sounds like a manufacturing defect that a reputable manufacturer should be willing to make right--ie new skis at a sizable discount--you pay the difference between what you paid for them and MSRP.

Thats bullshit Spats got a good eye as far as blems and sells them at blem prices. without knowing the whole story as to what they were sold to you at or how they were described or pics before the grinding it's hard to say.
Fwiw I personally over ground my 1st pair of super stiff caknuckle head models and they were still a bit concave I threw some flimsy ass silverttas on em and skied the shit out of em before kicking them down to Icemans buddy who is still skiing them.

Post some pics of these skis and what's the flex. I have a few pair of 188 blems floating around I'm not in a financial position to eat shipping but I'll swap ya the concave/ ground ones for what I got cause that's the way the way the maggot brogram works.