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  1. #26
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    I have a Border Collie, Australian Shepherd mix. He is what you described.
    a positive attitude will not solve all of your problems, but it may annoy enough people to make it worth the effort

    Formerly Rludes025

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    You def need a Belgian Tervuren - know many and they are FAB dogs (My GF raised and showed them)

    Wow. New dog that I never see around here. Will look into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by shredgnar View Post
    Great looking dog. The belly coloring is great.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeanDip4All View Post
    ugly- have you considered a corgi? fits all your requirements to the letter. i am surprised hasn't been mentioned yet...

    likes water
    I remember seeing some other crazy pictures of your Corgi and if it has all those attributes it must be a great dog. I forgot to mention that my wife likes dogs with long legs
    Last edited by uglymoney; 10-14-2009 at 07:02 PM.

  3. #28
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    smooth coated collie.
    "if the city is visibly one of humankind's greatest achievements, its uncontrolled evolution also can lead to desecration of both nature and the human spirit."
    -- Melvin G. Marcus 1979

  4. #29
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    A lot of the stuff you describe is more individual dog specific rather than breed specific.

    I would usually suggest just going to a shelter and walking dogs till you find one you like, but I think that there are too many breeders these days breeding for show or just for whatever, I think the best bloodlines for real working dogs are being diluted and lost. I don't know of any breeders who breed real working dogs, but I know there are some out there and I think they should be supported so their art, and the best dogs' bloodlines are not both lost.

    Dog breeding used to be about making the best damn dogs you could, but it has become either indiscriminate breeding not intended to produce any special traits, or show breeding just to produce a certain appearance and nothing else. I think that's sad.


    I have a blue heeler german sheperd mix that is a wonderful pup, both personality and capability wise. He's getting older, but in his youth (up to about 10-12 years old) his intelligence endurance obedience, loyalty and tenacity were excellent.

    Like I already said, I don't know of any specific breeders, but I do know that a little over half a century ago some American breeders decided that the current crop of heelers was too "watered down" from the original breed, so a concerted effort was made to reintroduce the diluted dingo blood back into the breed, with good results. Sometime after this, the "new" heelers were also breed with other breeds, like german sheperds, to make the heelers better cold weather herding dogs for places like montana.

    I don't know for sure that my dog is from these bloodlines, but I'd like to think he is. I know when he was real young he was a working cattle dog, or at least that's what the people I got him from said, and he characteristics match what I have learned of these breeds.

    So I guess, after that bit of rambling, is to look for a breeder of working dogs in montana. Maybe try to contact some cattle ranchers up there and see if you can get a suggestion from them.
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  5. #30
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    Our corgi mix is the best dog we've ever had (Westie, spitz/GS mix, former-show Wire-Haired Fox, Jack Russell, corgi mix). Picked her up at the shelter when she was two or three. She kinda looks like a shepherd mix because she has GS coloring and she's a bit bigger.

    When I'm home for the holidays... "Fiona, is Santa finally bringing you legs for Christmas this year?"

    Honestly though, cool dog.
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  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    Wow. New dog that I never see around here. Will look into it.
    BTW - those ears are natural - no cropping!!! If you want/need a breeder recommendation let me know!





    Belgian Tervuren

    AKC MEET THE BREEDS®: Belgian Tervuren
    Intelligent, courageous and alert, the Belgian Tervuren is marked by its devotion to work and family. Elegant in appearance, the Belgian Tervuren’s color is a rich fawn to russet mahogany with black overlay. The Terv owes its name to the Belgian village of Tervuren, the home of M.F. Corbeel, an early devotee of the breed. Excelling in obedience and agility competitions, this breed also makes an excellent therapy or guide dog for the disabled, as well as being outstanding at their original job of herding.

    A Look Back
    The Belgian Tervuren is known in its country of origin as the Chien de Berger Beige. Prior to the Industrial Age, the rural farmers of Belgium had a great need for a general purpose herding and guard dog. The protective instinct of these dogs provided security for the farm and the family, and their herding abilities assisted with the daily maintenance of the stock. With industrialization, the rural farm dog became less important, but the Terv continued to be cherished as a family companion.
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  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rludes025 View Post
    I have a Border Collie, Australian Shepherd mix. He is what you described.
    I'll second that, but mine's a she, and I'm slightly partial.


  8. #33
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    Unless you are herding livestock in which case you wouldn't need to ask ... isn't "the perfect herding dog" an oxymoron ?

    we have a saying up here at the ski hill when buddy is getting his panties all in a knot ...
    Don't go border collie on me man

  9. #34
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    If you decide to investigate Belgian Shepherds further, have a look at the black ones. Beautiful, loyal, highly intelligent dogs. Different name, though ...Gronendel...something like that.

    I don't have any scanned pictures of my dog from many years ago, but I found these on the internet. That puppy pic nearly brings tears to my eyes- looks just like my old boy.
    ¡Órale, vato!

  10. #35
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    I have two herding dogs (kelpie mix and aussie mix) and they couldn't be more opposite from what you are looking for. One loves the water and will swim even if snow is on the ground, the other barks at the waves till i have to tell pissed off beachcombers that she had some sort of traumatic water accident. She obviously didn't. Neither fetch. They run after balls and then sit patiently until I walk my ass over to them to retrieve the ball. Squirrels run their lives. I can walk one moderately well off leash, the other I wouldn't trust my life on. I can't leave food lying around cause it will disappear in seconds. They bark at most moving objects until I break out the squirt bottle. But I love them and wouldn't trade them for all the money in the world.

    I know dogs have certain traits specific to their breed, but in the end it really is one big crapshoot. Instead of searching for that one perfect breed, search for the perfect dog. Volunteer at your local humane society to walk dogs. It's ridiculously rewarding and you'll get to know each dog so much better. How they walk on leash, socialize with people, act around other animals, etc. Eventually you'll find your new best friend.

    My dogs aren't perfect by any means, but I found each of them by volunteering at the humane society. I wanted friendly dogs that love to run, like kids, don't chase cats, snuggle at night, enjoy car rides, dominate snow and warm up to strangers quickly. That's exactly what I got. I know you are looking for breeds - and it was a total coincidence that I adopted herding breeds - cause I was just looking for the right dog.

    *End with violin music, tears, and a buttload of corny*
    Take it easy ... if it's easy take it twice.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanDip4All View Post
    ugly- have you considered a corgi? fits all your requirements to the letter. i am surprised hasn't been mentioned yet...
    I not a fan of small dogs, but Corgis are very cool and wicked smart too. At least the ones I knew. My boss had an older one and got two pups while I worked for her. They were awesome. Never underfoot in the kitchen/warehouse that we worked out of. the health dept.

    The older one knew that we called her bath mat due to her low height and rather expansive coat. If we even called her that within earshot even when she was looking away, she would give us a disappointed look and turn her back and walk away. I couldn't do it after a couple of times of that.

    My wife is determined to get a Newfoundland or a Newfie/Golden cross and I have no say in the matter at all.

    Good luck. I love dogs.
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  12. #37
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    One more thought....if you're turned off by the coat of the Tervuren you might consider the Belgian Malinois:



    AKC MEET THE BREEDS®: Belgian Malinois
    One of the four types of Belgian sheepherding dogs, the Belgian Malinois is an alert, high-energy breed, popular as both a police and military working dog. Although sometimes mistaken for the German Shepherd Dog, the Malinois is more elegant in build and lighter-boned, but does not lack for strength, agility or herding ability. Active participants in conformation, obedience, schutzhund, herding, sledding, and tracking, the breed ranges in color from rich fawn to mahogany, with black tips on the hairs and a black mask and ears.

    A Look Back

    Developed in the city of Malines, where it got its name, the Malinois shares a common foundation with the Belgian Sheepdog and the Belgian Tervuren. In fact, the Belgian dogs share a breed standard in all countries except the United States. The original breeders prized the Malinois’ working character, and historically, the breed has been the favorite type of Belgian Shepherd in its native country.
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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    One more thought....if you're turned off by the coat of the Tervuren
    Turned off? Not a chance. Those dogs are spectacular. Summit had some layers so I'm used to big hair.





    I don't have time to respond to everyone who has dropped in to this thread today and late last night because I'm working and packing for a trip tomorrow but I've read everything and enjoyed the different perspectives on dog selection and especially reading about your herders.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    Turned off? Not a chance. Those dogs are spectacular. Summit had some layers so I'm used to big hair.

    My GF who shows them just told me she know of a girl Terv who is looking for a home. She would not recommend a dog that wasn't tops in obedience.
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  15. #40
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    corgi's are an interesting mutt for sure. The more i see of them the more I like. I have a 9mt old heeler and the beast is fantastic. Remarkably trainable and listens to the point that it's shocking. Is able to walk w/o a leash around other dogs and people and doesn't seem to really care about either, only where I am and what i'm saying. He'll sniff if it happens but never chases and again, sniffs and is like, whatever. Unless a corgi is around. If a corgi is in the mix the two beasts will run and chase each other silly if he isn't reprimanded not to bother the corgi. The corgi's usually crap out first i think simply b/c they are smaller as both mutts are designed for the haul or a 9mt old heeler has limitless energy.

    He is all heeler and i do think it's a roll of the dice, i happened to luck out.

  16. #41
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    I've got 2 pure aussies, never have another type of dog, period. But like others have said got to the breeder or whatever and watch the pack a few times. Pick out the mellow one and run with it. Worked like a charm w/ our black tri, he's more like a lab than an aussie (except he has a brain). They will follow you to hell and back. Slay powder and mountain bike till you puke. The most loyal dog out there. But be prepared for a little bit of exercise.

    Last edited by FreakofSnow; 10-16-2009 at 09:10 PM.

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreakofSnow View Post
    I've got 2 pure aussies, never have another type of dog, period. But like others have said got to the breeder or whatever and watch the pack a few times. Pick out the mellow one and run with it. Worked like a charm w/ our black tri, he's more like a lab than an aussie (except he has a brain). They will follow you to hell and back. Slay powder and mountain bike till you puke. The most loyal dog out there. But be prepared for a little bit of exercise.
    Cute pup, more pics?

  18. #43
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    Every breed of dog has good and bad points, and any given dog can have a personality different from the breed. But, dogs have been breed to have certain characteristics which is why they are breed. Herding dogs have herding personalities, guarding dogs have guarding personalities. Retrievers like to retrieve, and so on. Because of these basic breed personalities you should be prepared to deal with them. It doesn't mean any given dog can't be great, but there is a reason boarder collies are the number one behavior problem dog. There is a reason rottweilers tend to bite and growl a lot, or that labs will drive you crazy with balls and sticks.

    While Belgian's can be great dogs, they are not for everyone. I have seen plenty that are down right nasty, even with well trained handlers. I would be very cautious of any guard breed like Belgian's, GSD, rott's (they are called rottenweilers for a reason), etc.

    Herding breeds can make great pets as well, but they are pron to behavior problems mostly because of pent up energy and unfulfilled desires to herd. Many can also be nippy, both because they like to nip when they are herding, but also because they are somewhat of a guard dog (i.e. guarding the flock.)

    I, personally, prefer hunting breeds for these reasons. Over all they tend to be much more easy going, yet have plenty of energy and stamina. Most are much less likely to bite, and therefore make better family dogs.

    Just some things to think about from somebody who sees a dozen different dogs a day. And for god's sake don't get a chihuahua, the worlds most useless breed, except as a boot target

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leah View Post
    I have two herding dogs (kelpie mix and aussie mix) and they couldn't be more opposite from what you are looking for. One loves the water and will swim even if snow is on the ground, the other barks at the waves till i have to tell pissed off beachcombers that she had some sort of traumatic water accident. She obviously didn't. Neither fetch. They run after balls and then sit patiently until I walk my ass over to them to retrieve the ball. Squirrels run their lives. I can walk one moderately well off leash, the other I wouldn't trust my life on. I can't leave food lying around cause it will disappear in seconds. They bark at most moving objects until I break out the squirt bottle. But I love them and wouldn't trade them for all the money in the world.
    This describes my little herding monster (aussie mix rescue mut).I think you may walk your dogs on my street - 41st SE over by Reed/Woodstock. My house is the one with the cattle dog that barks at yours. I think we used to see you on our morning runs sometimes, too. That or you have doppleganger with the same dogs.
    another Handsome Boy graduate

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    Every breed of dog has good and bad points, and any given dog can have a personality different from the breed. ......

    Herding breeds can make great pets as well, but they are pron to behavior problems mostly because of pent up energy and unfulfilled desires to herd. Many can also be nippy, both because they like to nip when they are herding, but also because they are somewhat of a guard dog (i.e. guarding the flock.)

    I, personally, prefer hunting breeds for these reasons. Over all they tend to be much more easy going, yet have plenty of energy and stamina. Most are much less likely to bite, and therefore make better family dogs........
    There are no bad dogs...only bad owners.....

    That said...I *THINK* the title of this thread is something like "help me find a HERDING dog"
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  21. #46
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    ¡Órale, vato!

  22. #47
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    Believe me, there are plenty of bad dogs. Some of them are just wired wrong.

    I know the thread asked for herding dogs, but my point was to consider what one may get with herding breeds.

    I don't know the complete history of Belgian's but I consider them more of a guard dog then a herding breed. At least most of the ones I see have come from that line of dog. They are real popular now for police departments, and seem to be slowly gaining popularity over GSD for local law enforcement.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    There are no bad dogs...only bad owners.....
    I don't know if you were being serious but I'll respond as if you were because so many people believe what you wrote, but it's total bullshit.

    It's just as easy for a dog (or a cat, or a llama...) to have a chemical imbalance in its brain as it is for a human to have one. There ARE bad dogs.

    That said, most bad dogs are the result of bad training/environment. Most but definitely not all.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
    I don't know if you were being serious but I'll respond as if you were because so many people believe what you wrote, but it's total bullshit.

    It's just as easy for a dog (or a cat, or a llama...) to have a chemical imbalance in its brain as it is for a human to have one. There ARE bad dogs.

    That said, most bad dogs are the result of bad training/environment. Most but definitely not all.
    I was being phunny but I appreciate your point
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  25. #50
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    I <3 my collie. He is a wonderful ski dog and he is sharp as a tack. He does not fulfill your requirements of liking water or playing fetch. He really doesn't like to swim and he will play fetch mostly because I taught him to. He prefers to play chase instead of fetch.




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