Environmentally Safe Ski Wax Options

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks, as long as I'm not left behind on the catwalks & traverses

I noticed Hertel mentions irons on the main page (and sells one) as well references as in his downloadable PDF file. I'll take the big plunge on a T8 & some Hot Sauce & likely the thermostat's range will work with it ... I hope.

Cheers,
Thom

[XXX-er]

if you got the coin and you want a great toy go for the T12, i never tire of the digital readout giving me the ambient temp when I plug it in

[galibier_numero_un]

Sounds like a plan. It's not as if I spend the money on beer ... did I just say that?

Cheers,
Thom

[raueda1]

I'm puzzled about why anybody would be concerned that fluoro-waxes are toxic. I'd expect exactly the contrary. They're chemically similar to teflon, which is about as chemically inert as it gets. Even the hydrocarbon waxes are pretty benign. All they are is wax. In fact, soy-based or other natural stuff is also wax by the time it's in a form you apply to your skis.

[Gepeto]

I'm puzzled about why anybody would be concerned that fluoro-waxes are toxic. I'd expect exactly the contrary. They're chemically similar to teflon, which is about as chemically inert as it gets. Even the hydrocarbon waxes are pretty benign. All they are is wax. In fact, soy-based or other natural stuff is also wax by the time it's in a form you apply to your skis.

Waiting for more insight along this train of thought.
Buying earth/lung friendly is for someone else to do next time around.
And I can't tell the difference in product.
If anything the temp ranges are narrower.
I just won't breath for 200 secs it takes for now.

[raueda1]

I retract my remarks:
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.o...-wax-chemicals

[rsknight1]

Anyone here tried Kickin Chicken universal wax?
http://kickinchickenwax.com/

[galibier_numero_un]

I retract my remarks:
http://www.environmentalhealthnews.o...-wax-chemicals

Thanks for the reference.

These discussions can be interesting (and sometimes contentious), all of which can be fun.

Apart from all that, my take is, if I'm out of wax, the reports are that stuff like Hertel's performs about the same, I'm not a racer searching for hundredths of a second, but I want to smoke my buddies (who are too lazy to wax regularly) on catwalks, and it costs about the same, then why not try it?

I've worked around too many noxious chemicals at one time, and some folks I know have developed various degrees of multiple chemical sensitivity, so you might say that I have a heightened awareness about stuff like this. No one ever called me a quick study, however.

Cheers,
Thom

[ZomblibulaX]

Monitoring your iron temp, keeping an eye on ventilation and minimizing fluoro particle exposure is enough to keep recreational ski tuners safe. Fluoro's are for acceleration. They're not durable enough for general use. You can make a ski go plenty fast with HC and microcrystalline waxes (and even some of the hippy-dippy soy stuff) if you do it right. Not that paraffin is exactly healthy, its still crude oil.

Not to be a dick, but if you're terribly concerned about the impact waxes have on the environment, you might look in to not skiing. Not that eco waxes don't have merit, but ski and boot manufacturing aren't exactly green industries.

Per health concerns:
If your iron starts smoking, turn it down.
If you're working in a confined space, open the door/window and turn on a fan.
If you think you need a rotobrush for daily use, spray water on your bases to keep the particles from going airborne.
Don't snort Cera-F.

Hertel's good, low melting temp. Not super-durable, but plays well with just about anything. New, dry snow is about its only weakness.

[TahoeJ]

That was my biggest surprise about Hertel's when I switched... such a low melting temperature I had to turn my ski iron down about as far as it goes. Performance wise I really can't tell any difference from Swix CH-8 (red wax) except it's actually a little better in spring slush.

[stuckathuntermtn]

You guys use floro waxes?

[LightRanger]

^^^ I did when I raced nordic and we were sticking thermometers in the snow all the time.

Now I just use whatever shit is cheapest and on hand, in the rough temp range I expect to encounter.

[galibier_numero_un]

That was my biggest surprise about Hertel's when I switched... such a low melting temperature I had to turn my ski iron down about as far as it goes. Performance wise I really can't tell any difference from Swix CH-8 (red wax) except it's actually a little better in spring slush.

I notice the two Toko irons I'm considering (T8 & T14) range from 100C to 160C. I think this is somewhat standard. Do you happen to have a temperature associated with the bottom end of your iron?

Thanks,
Thom

[galibier_numero_un]

^^^ I did when I raced nordic and we were sticking thermometers in the snow all the time.

Now I just use whatever shit is cheapest and on hand, in the rough temp range I expect to encounter.

That's been my approach for years. The late great Doug Coombs said it best in his Q&P video. It's going to be right somewhere on the mountain ... words to that effect. Gonna give some of those eco waxes a try, but in no way will I return to going crazy about temperature range choices.

Cheers,
Thom

[TahoeJ]

I notice the two Toko irons I'm considering (T8 & T14) range from 100C to 160C. I think this is somewhat standard. Do you happen to have a temperature associated with the bottom end of your iron?

Hertel's melting point is 90 - the lowest I've seen - and that's the very bottom of the range on my TOKO iron. Although I usually crank it up to 100 because I find it melts and spreads a little better that way. Either of those should be fine.

[avitas]

We started carrying Wend waxes in the shop. People like them.

Their HF wax performs like a swix LF wax, as reported by a few customers. The meadowfoam and liquid hot box are where its at with them.

What is Meadowfoam?
WEND Meadowfoam Snow Wax is derived from the seeds of commercial Meadowfoam flowers (Limnanthes alba) grown in Oregon’s Willamette Valley. Meadowfoam Seed Oil is a fully refined triglyceride composed of over 98% fatty acids with chain lengths of 20 carbons or more. The wax is a light-colored, odor free product prized for its exceptional oxidative stability and functionality in a wide range of products and formulations. WEND has exclusivity of Meadowfoam—it meets the industry standard & company standard for durability and repellency in quality snow wax.

check it out if ya want

http://www.wendperformance.com/

http://www.wendperformance.com/faq/

[XXX-er]

The top end of my T-12 for skin re- glue is max'ed out at 320, you use higher temps than waxing for heating glue

I did voly at the ski cross champs where i hung out at the top waiting for something to need doing, I talked to the guys who are getting paid to wax skis buddy sez they do a wax in town with whatever but at the start line they crayon that high fluro into the bases and polish really hard with the power brush, it seemed to be all about a clean base structure

[Gepeto]

Never had a ski iron I liked. use a 30yo household with the perfs.
Don't look at wax temps as it relates to heat.
Just hot enough to lay wax with no burn off.
Bigger surface heats quick so no pre-heat to create the special cloud to work in.

I've been exposed to the guru leading edge science that is wax and learned to appreciate what it means to get it right.

Tried 2 $$ Non-PFCs this season. When skied out of temperature range it was beyond suck ime. Fly paper is less tacky.

Trials terminated.

[XXX-er]

I also got an old iron with no holes that I bought in a 2nd hand store for 5 bucks, already had the wax on it but IME clothes irons tend to be too hot and it was always a pain to use, I tire easily of this bull shit in my autumn year so wtf buy the best

as that guy used to say " if you don't do it now you will just be another year older when you do"

[galibier_numero_un]

Hertel's melting point is 90 - the lowest I've seen - and that's the very bottom of the range on my TOKO iron. Although I usually crank it up to 100 because I find it melts and spreads a little better that way. Either of those should be fine.

Thanks!

I also got an old iron with no holes that I bought in a 2nd hand store for 5 bucks, already had the wax on it but IME clothes irons tend to be too hot and it was always a pain to use, I tire easily of this bull shit in my autumn year so wtf buy the best

as that guy used to say " if you don't do it now you will just be another year older when you do"

Good tools are a pleasure to use, and I don't like not being able to control wax from smoking. How many $10 bills do I have to throw away on cheap irons to maybe find one with a good enough thermostat? For what? To suffer and prove a point at no net savings ... ending up with an inferior tool in the end (maybe I should rephrase the last part ).

The top end of my T-12 for skin re- glue is max'ed out at 320, you use higher temps than waxing for heating glue

I did voly at the ski cross champs where i hung out at the top waiting for something to need doing, I talked to the guys who are getting paid to wax skis buddy sez they do a wax in town with whatever but at the start line they crayon that high fluro into the bases and polish really hard with the power brush, it seemed to be all about a clean base structure

I've never done a re-glue. Another point I thought about this morning ... the idea of waxing glop stopper on my skins scares the living daylights out of me. I've done it with my cheapo, but it always feels risky, and I'm pretty coordinated. How much does a burned skin ruin your day?

That crazy guy over at SkiVisions doesn't even wax ... just believes in structure and nothing more. He's quite the nerd.

Cheers,
Thom

[XXX-er]

..
I've never done a re-glue. Another point I thought about this morning ... the idea of waxing glop stopper on my skins scares the living daylights out of me. I've done it with my cheapo, but it always feels risky, and I'm pretty coordinated. How much does a burned skin ruin your day?

That crazy guy over at SkiVisions doesn't even wax ... just believes in structure and nothing more. He's quite the nerd.

Cheers,
Thom

I've never hot waxed a skin just rubbed wax on but now I use Nikwax ski skin proof couple times a season which i put it on at home and the skin never wets out take them off and the plush is dry SO they never ice up, I still carry wax but haven't used it since using this stuff

we got some real racer nerds locally including a proffesional coach for the ski club they are all about the structure and the power brush of course ... now I'm lusting after the power brushes

[galibier_numero_un]

Thanks. That's good feedback on Nikwax. I've been wondering about it as it might simplify my life. Gotta check it out ...

... Thom

[LightRanger]

We started carrying Wend waxes in the shop. People like them.

Their HF wax performs like a swix LF wax, as reported by a few customers. The meadowfoam and liquid hot box are where its at with them.



check it out if ya want

http://www.wendperformance.com/

http://www.wendperformance.com/faq/

Interesting. I'd been wondering about Wend as the new kids on the block. They're certainly hyped up by all their sponsored athletes. At least those in the Tahoe area...

[galibier_numero_un]

We started carrying Wend waxes in the shop. People like them.

Their HF wax performs like a swix LF wax, as reported by a few customers. The meadowfoam and liquid hot box are where its at with them.

check it out if ya want

http://www.wendperformance.com/
http://www.wendperformance.com/faq/

This is making me crazy(er). 60C. melting point, or 40 deg. below the minimum setting of the standard waxing irons. I really don't want to start a waxing iron quiver I'll just get the Toko & use a sauna as a hot box ;-)

... Thom

[creaky fossil]

I'm puzzled about why anybody would be concerned that fluoro-waxes are toxic. I'd expect exactly the contrary. They're chemically similar to teflon, which is about as chemically inert as it gets. Even the hydrocarbon waxes are pretty benign. All they are is wax. In fact, soy-based or other natural stuff is also wax by the time it's in a form you apply to your skis.

so "teflon" exists naturally and isn't synthesized?

go to your elemental table and look at Fl and tell me what that particular element is known for, would you please?