Is there a God... of Karma?

**NorthernSpotted...** · 09-11-2009, 05:49 AM

This is sort of a response to the "Talking with God" thread...

It seems that there are a lot of you around here who are atheists, or at the very least, secular. However, many of you seem to believe in Karma, which is an idea with origins in the Eastern religions, i.e. Hindu, Buddhism, etc. I acknowledge that karma is an idea completely foreign to the religions with which most of us have experience, but I'm still wondering: What's up with that?

**Tuckerman** · 09-11-2009, 06:18 AM

Yeah, Karma God (KG)

**dumpy** · 09-11-2009, 08:43 AM

Coming from an Agnostic point of view, I'm not sure how it fits, but I do believe in some form of Karma. Assuming the definition of Karma is "what goes around, comes around".

It could be as simple as, "if you're a dick, people will be a dick back to you", human enforced Karma. I think this could fit into an atheistic view. Or it could be something more supernatural. Again I'm an Agnostic because I don't want to spend too much time on these types of issues. Live well, treat others right and wait to see what happens.

**Poop~Ghost** · 09-11-2009, 09:31 AM

I think that "generic" belief in karma probably falls much closer to the golden rule ~ treat others as you'd have them treat you.

There's been quite a bit said about the usefulness of such a social theme/meme in evolutionary biology.

I would guess that the number of people westerners that truly believe in a God keeping track of your deeds in the Karmic sense are few and far between.

To be honest - I think that the number of people who believe that there really is a god is really small. If somebody TRULY believed that their eternal salvation was dependent upon picking the right religion/god - I think they would be completely versed in every possible religion. They wouldn't be spending time working or doing much other than preparing themselves for the afterlife.

We are talking about eternity right? So the first 60-100 years of eternity is what? It's nothing. If you believed that this life was the chicken scratch before an eternal life - you would want to make damn sure you bet on the right pony.

**Poop~Ghost** · 09-11-2009, 09:33 AM

**JONg Doe** · 09-11-2009, 11:00 AM

Herr, I've wondered the same thing too. You see the word 'Karma' used so frequently in pop-culture that it's really taken on a new meaning. I'm probably stepping on toes here, but I've also wondered how many prayer flag hanging home owners are truly Buddhist? - or simply climbing enthusiasts?

**BlindShooterSSS** · 09-11-2009, 12:03 PM

Damn I know how you feel man. I get called Scottish and Swedish and Swiss and the God damn time. Its Irish for crying out loud. I expect its a lot worse for you though man; I see how that is.

**Liveezy** · 09-11-2009, 12:11 PM

I believe in Karma, i don't think there is some God controlling it though.

Your positive feedback principle is probably the most logical explanation, although i would like to think of it as a more natural and mystical force.

**bluejet59** · 09-11-2009, 12:59 PM

Buddhists don't believe in god. Karma is your own creation and up solely to you to erase.
No outside forces at work.

**PNWbrit** · 09-11-2009, 01:08 PM

My horoscope said that I wouldn't believe in karma today.

**ski_adk** · 09-11-2009, 01:20 PM

Not sure if there is a specific "God of Karma", however one could easily argue that almost any god is the keeper of such things. I've encountered this many times in my Christian background where many hold the belief that God is a god of justice who smites the wicked and rewards the good. In the limited exposure I've had with Islam, it's the same thing. If someone gets what's coming to them, it's not referred to as Karma, but it's pretty much the same thing. On the other end of the spectrum, if a holy person finds a lot of rewards in this life, you'll often hear them talk about being "blessed by God".

**bklyn** · 09-11-2009, 02:04 PM

Yes, Newton.

**highangle** · 09-11-2009, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Herr Doktor

This is sort of a response to the "Talking with God" thread...

It seems that there are a lot of you around here who are atheists, or at the very least, secular. However, many of you seem to believe in Karma, which is an idea with origins in the Eastern religions, i.e. Hindu, Buddhism, etc. I acknowledge that karma is an idea completely foreign to the religions with which most of us have experience, but I'm still wondering: What's up with that?

karma is an expression of hopes and wishes

we want it to be true, so for many people it is

i think the scientific name for it is Observer Bias

**NorthernSpotted...** · 09-11-2009, 07:04 PM

I like where your mind is at, highangle. By the way, you've become a lot less pretentious and douchey since your arrival. Huzzah and kudos to you, sir.

Originally Posted by bluejet59

Buddhists don't believe in god. Karma is your own creation and up solely to you to erase.
No outside forces at work.

My thread title was sort of rhetorical. I know there's no god of karma and I know Buddhists don't believe in god the way most major religions do. My point was this:

Implicit in the concept of Karma is that there is some greater power out there determining whether your actions deserve to be rewarded or punished. Ultimately, that is very similar to the Judeo-Christian-Islamic belief that a virtuous life will be rewarded with eternal bliss in the after-life. I guess the nice (and comforting) thing about Karma, in contrast to Western religious beliefs, is that rather than just one lifetime, you supposedly get an infinite number of chances to get it right. Lets face it, though, I'm not refering to those who believe in Karma as a tenet of their faith, or religious philosophy if you prefer; I'm speaking of those that believe in the mechanism of Karma but don't believe in a higher power. I just think it's paradoxical.

**NorthernSpotted...** · 09-11-2009, 07:45 PM

^^^^
Stop it. You're making me blush.

**leroy jenkins** · 09-11-2009, 08:01 PM

I believe in karma in a sense I guess, but not as some mystical supernatural force. I think if you're an angry pissed off confrontational person who goes through life getting self righteous and indignant with everyone, even if you don't express your feelings verbally, I think people can pick up on your attitude and the way they treat you will be different if you're a total douche. I think if you go through life as a kind selfless person, you'll attract people to you that behave in the same way.

Originally Posted by JONg Doe

Herr, I've wondered the same thing too. You see the word 'Karma' used so frequently in pop-culture that it's really taken on a new meaning. I'm probably stepping on toes here, but I've also wondered how many prayer flag hanging home owners are truly Buddhist? - or simply climbing enthusiasts?

Prayer flags are funny. A lot of the people that hang them up really don't know that traditionally you're supposed to let them disintegrate in the wind, that is how the prayer is "transmitted to the universe". Or they're just decoration, who cares.

**highangle** · 09-11-2009, 08:39 PM

there is no Zen on the mountaintop but the Zen you bring

**Meanfruit** · 09-12-2009, 10:18 AM

Do North American folks actually hang prayer flags on there homes? And are most(any?) Buddhists, or do they just fancy the idea of having good karma as they scale the shiplap while making the crux move at the raingutter? Weird

doughboyshredder · 09-12-2009, 11:19 AM

belief in karma with no proof is not much different than belief in a god(s) without proof. A lot of people seem to think that karma is some mystical force that responds to energies etc.... etc.... blah blah blah. Life is life. There is not some person or force controlling it, besides you.

Anyone that is adamant about karmic spirituality is just as loopy as someone that is adamant about any other religion.

Don't forget bad shit happens to good people all the time. Yet, when good shit happens to good people it's karma. nonsense.

**hutash** · 09-12-2009, 11:31 AM

I believed in karma in my past life, but not this one. Who knows, next time I might be a Christian, (or a cockroach.)

**MultiVerse** · 09-12-2009, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by bklyn

Yes, Newton.

Newton's epitaph:

"Nature and Nature's laws lay hid in night:
God said, 'Let Newton be!' and all was light."

**leroy jenkins** · 09-12-2009, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by doughboyshredder

belief in karma with no proof is not much different than belief in a god(s) without proof.

Also not much different than the people who believe there is no god without proof. I actually knew someone once who said they had "faith there is no god" those were their exact words. Moron.

**hutash** · 09-12-2009, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Also not much different than the people who believe there is no god without proof. I actually knew someone once who said they had "faith there is no god" those were their exact words. Moron.

It is not inconsistent to have faith there is no god, just as you can have faith the sun will rise tomorrow. The difference is some people who have faith there is no god base their faith, belief, hypothesis, what ever that there is no god is more based in evidence and reason.

Faith in a religious sense that there is no god, though does not make sense. Since in a religious sense you need a god to tell you to believe in him, which obviously can't happen if there is no god.

In other words..."I am god and I don't exist" just doesn't make sense.

The word faith is not exclusive to religion only

**highangle** · 09-12-2009, 01:23 PM

Leroy's atheist had probably made the mistake of letting some christian define 'faith' for him...

what he should have said was that he had a strong conviction that there is no God

let a religionist define faith, and pretty soon it means "everything it needs to mean to make religionists absolutely correct"

**leroy jenkins** · 09-12-2009, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by hutash

It is not inconsistent to have faith there is no god, just as you can have faith the sun will rise tomorrow. The difference is some people who have faith there is no god base their faith, belief, hypothesis, what ever that there is no god is more based in evidence and reason.

Go ahead and try to prove to me, using evidence and reason, that there is no God.

I don't think there is any more rational evidence to disprove existence of a higher power than to prove it. You can refute aspects of certain religions or mythologies, but there is no evidence to prove there is no god, except people's gut feeling, which is just as silly as the people who believe every word in the bible just because of their gut feeling.

I won't say I KNOW, but I will say that the more I learn about science/the way the universe works, the more I think the only LOGICAL conclusion is that there must be something greater. However, I understand and admit that this may just be my mind's way of dealing with the fact that the universe is just too fucking hudge for me to come to grips with.

Go ahead though, I'm waiting.