Stripped binding hole - best epoxy filler (steelwool, colloidal silica, fiberglass)

[Dkla52]

Epoxy a helicoil in the stripped screw hole.
That's what they are made to do.

which one? Brass, alpine, 9mm se, ..etc?

[D(C)]

Why over think what is in reality a "field repair?" No ski shops are using steel wool, saw dust, or putty in their repairs.

Helicoils are effective. No argument there. But for a very minor stripped hole (screw threads in but won't bite tight, no vertical play), glue and filler can be effective and a much less invasive repair. And if it fails, you can always helicoil after. Just be sure to check the screws before they fail catastrophically on the mountain.

[Alpinord]

which one? Brass, alpine, 9mm se, ..etc?

An alpine heli-coil.



Heli-coils are 'springs' made from coiled wire and sized for a huge variety of threads and originally developed for thread repairs in the aircraft industry. The installation tool 'loads' the spring and releases it into the tapped thread and locking it into place. Coupling that with epoxy provides a tried and true ski (or snowboard 6/9mm) repair.

Tap-ins are brass or nylon and pounded/hammered into the ski, board, whatever...and matches the fastener thread. (A drywall anchor is another common type of tap-in insert.)



Threaded inserts (ss, Binding Freedom), brass or other metal are installed via an installation tool into a tapped hole. Some threaded inserts (ie, for wood and skis) are self-tapping. Tapping in skis is always recommended.

[Dkla52]

Helicoils are effective. No argument there. But for a very minor stripped hole (screw threads in but won't bite tight, no vertical play), glue and filler can be effective and a much less invasive repair. And if it fails, you can always helicoil after. Just be sure to check the screws before they fail catastrophically on the mountain.

D(C) is right. Plus heli coils make the hole bigger ( you gotta drill 8 mm) which may not be a desirable outcome depending if the skis have other hole pattern close to that hole in question... D(C) based on what you wrote earlier, it might not be a bad idea to use a lil bit of colloidal silica to the steelwool+ epoxy method. That way you'll get everything you ask for: steelwool to act as wedge to fill up the space between the hole and the screw, and then epoxy and colloidal silica (very little)to become a bomb proof glue. Only problem with this combo is that getting the screw out might be difficult... What do you think D(C)?

[Dkla52]

An alpine heli-coil.



Heli-coils are 'springs' made from coiled wire and sized for a huge variety of threads and originally developed for thread repairs in the aircraft industry. The installation tool 'loads' the spring and releases it into the tapped thread and locking it into place. Coupling that with epoxy provides a tried and true ski (or snowboard 6/9mm) repair.

Tap-ins are brass or nylon and pounded/hammered into the ski, board, whatever...and matches the fastener thread. (A drywall anchor is another common type of tap-in insert.)



Threaded inserts (ss, Binding Freedom), brass or other metal are installed via an installation tool into a tapped hole. Some threaded inserts (ie, for wood and skis) are self-tapping. Tapping in skis is always recommended.

Thanks Terry. I'm putting an order on your site as we speak. So just out of curiosity, you don't need to put epoxy in the hole in which you wanna put brass or nylons heli coils since you just hammer them down, right?

[Alpinord]

For brass or nylon, you still need a sealant. Binding Glue/Sealant works fine.

(FTR, the brass threaded insert is installed slot down. It's installed with a threaded installation tool not slots up as commonly thought.)

[Alpinord]

Helicoils are effective. No argument there. But for a very minor stripped hole (screw threads in but won't bite tight, no vertical play), glue and filler can be effective and a much less invasive repair. And if it fails, you can always helicoil after. Just be sure to check the screws before they fail catastrophically on the mountain.

Or a machinable epoxy, redrill and tap.

[LightRanger]

I love the nylon inserts for basic stripped holes. So easy, and gnarly pullout strength per that old test that was floating around.

[XXX-er]

. Only problem with this combo is that getting the screw out might be difficult... What do you think D(C)?

Use some heat, IME the good epoxy is so good it will usually need heat, if you don't have a good hot soldering iron just run the shank of a drill bit at high speed against the screw head

SO, unless you mounted the binding you don't actualy know what was used to mount your binding so instead of stripping the head, at the 1st sign that you can't break a screw loose ... use heat

[tuco]

Helicoils are effective. No argument there. But for a very minor stripped hole (screw threads in but won't bite tight, no vertical play), glue and filler can be effective and a much less invasive repair. And if it fails, you can always helicoil after. Just be sure to check the screws before they fail catastrophically on the mountain.

Could not agree more.

[shafty85]

Bumping a relatively old thread to ask for a little more detail regarding a few methods of filling a hole. For my purpose, I want to fill old holes that will be in close proximity/partially conflicting with a new mount, which will be done using BF inserts.

1. Is slow cure epoxy, such as Hardman Orange, with steel wool the way to go? There will likely be a location where the insert threads will be biting into whatever I use to fill with. Is a hardwood dowel of any benefit?
2. When mixing epoxy and steel wool, do you want long strands of the steel wool, or fine 'shavings' or cut offs of the steel wool?
3. I've also heard that slow cure epoxy and wood shaving/sawdust is a good combination - any comment?
4. How much filler (steel wool/wood/etc) do you want in proportion to the epoxy? 1:1? 3 parts epoxy: 1 part filler?

Seems to me that the steel wool would be best if you could separate the strands so that you have long-ish strands of steel wool mixed with the epoxy, or would they just clump up and be similar to using

[GeezerSteve]

Whatever resin/fill mix you use, consider this old-timer tip: If you install the screw while the epoxy is still wet, turn the ski base-up so that the epoxy forms a plug around the screw and up against the binding plate. Think: creating an epoxy/fill nut into which the screw is threaded to hold the binding to the binding plate. If you don't let the epoxy set base-up the epoxy can percolate into the ski core and the screw has less cured epoxy to bite. Not a bad idea to turn the ski base-up after all mounts to let the epoxy/fill/core harden into a plug where it does the most good. Turning skis upside down after screwing until the epoxy sets was standard procedure when I was a shop rat installing bindings on 100s of Nordic skis a few decades ago.

Hexcel mounting instructions required a void to be created below the binding plate with a hook tool, oodles of epoxy to be injected and then the skis turned base-up while the epoxy dried, thus forming a plug below the binding plate into which the screw was threaded. Worked amazingly well for a core that otherwise has virtually zero purchase on the screw.

Although I have had success dealing with spinners re the foregoing technique, I usually install a ski helicoil (purchased from Slidewright) whenever I encounter a spinner or anything close to it. Properly installed ski helicoil is bomber yet (unlike BF or PL inserts) has enough slop to allow a bit of adjustment on the binding location if the holes are not perfectly positioned. Also, a #12 sheet metal screw mates up well with a ski helicoil if you need extra long screws when installing shims under your bindings.

[swerve]

You along with most people over think this way too much. I've filled close and overlapping holes with regular wood glue and been just fine. That's not the best way but it will work. Any of the solutions you outlined will work so pick based on the materials you already have. On the epoxy with filler, go with more epoxy than filler to make it easier for the epoxy to flow into the hole and let air bubbles rise to the top.

[GeezerSteve]

wood glue (e.g., Titebond II, Titebond III, etc., etc.) = rusted screws every time IME. Maybe it's a wet PNW thing, but that's where I am. Once you've seen rusted screws it's tough to go back to wood glue.

[wolfelot]

Thanks for bumping. I plan to just use epoxy and steel wool for some mild spinners on a pair of Volkl Brides. Wish me luck. I'll report back if I get mangled.

[Bobcat Sig]

Good info in this thread; copied down for future use.

Crosslink as they are very much related: http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...n+fucking+skis

[ctsmith]

I've had good luck with G/flex epoxy (west system). It has typical epoxy strength, but is very flexible when cured as well. I add some small strands of carbon fiber to the holes also.

[zeroforhire]

Anyone else here use outdoor goop? I love that stuff.

[~mikey b]

What about the Hardman machinable epoxy? That's what I'm planning to use for a similar mount. Seems like no need to add steel wool or CF or anything.

[zeroforhire]

^ where can you get that?

[shafty85]

What about the Hardman machinable epoxy? That's what I'm planning to use for a similar mount. Seems like no need to add steel wool or CF or anything.

Is it flexible, though? Can't seem to determine that? Seems like it would be a great product for it, though, if it did have some flexibility to it but that seems unlikely, to me, due to the fact that it is machinable.

^ where can you get that?

http://theepoxysource.com/Epoxy.htm#04002

This is where I purchase my epoxy. Dunno if it's the best or not, but they have a good selection.

[~mikey b]

I'm filling old holes. Does it really need to be flexible?

I got mine at SlideWright. Buy from a Maggot.

http://www.slidewright.com/weblog/sk...lection-chart/

http://www.slidewright.com/ski-and-s...lue-and-epoxy/

[XXX-er]

In general the slower the set time for an epoxy the stronger/more flexible it is and unless you are out on the trail or sft what is your hurry, so why not just buy the slowest set and use it for everything ?

For filler get some fibreglass cloth (not building insulation) cut the strands into 1/2" lengths mix them into the epoxy, saturate the FG but not too resin rich, cram it into the spinner hole, run the screw in till its about to spin, let cure for a day and crank it down hard ... simple

[MagnificentUnicorn]

wood glue (e.g., Titebond II, Titebond III, etc., etc.) = rusted screws every time IME. Maybe it's a wet PNW thing, but that's where I am. Once you've seen rusted screws it's tough to go back to wood glue.

I would agree and I think for a regular binding mount the glue really just act as a lubricant and sealer for the screw. I usually use Roo Glue and it seals better and stays more flexible than any wood glue. I usually refrain from epoxy unless there is some issue with screw purchase and then I usually drop a helicoil in there. A helicoil seems to be the most bomber method for putting screws in skis.

[tuco]

Hexcel mounting instructions required a void to be created below the binding plate with a hook tool, oodles of epoxy to be injected and then the skis turned base-up while the epoxy dried, thus forming a plug below the binding plate into which the screw was threaded. Worked amazingly well for a core that otherwise has virtually zero purchase on the screw. .

That's because they have a honeycomb core, so there is zero purchase, the topsheet is where the screw purchase is, until your epoxy plug cures.

In general the slower the set time for an epoxy the stronger/more flexible it is and unless you are out on the trail or sft what is your hurry, so why not just buy the slowest set and use it for everything ?

For filler get some fibreglass cloth (not building insulation) cut the strands into 1/2" lengths mix them into the epoxy, saturate the FG but not too resin rich, cram it into the spinner hole, run the screw in till its about to spin, let cure for a day and crank it down hard ... simple

This. Steel wool is guna rust also, use glass. Might have to let the epoxy set up a touch(in the hole) then cram, as it will be more viscous and not just exit the hole around your cramming tool

If this were my ski I would probably just use a 5 min epoxy because you won't have to wait forever for the epoxy to set up(for cramming purposes) and extra flexibility is not needed in this situation, unless you already have the other epoxy of course