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  1. #1
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    2008 vs 1009 Turner 5 Spot - advice needed!

    So, has Turner revolutionized the 5 Spot with the dw link rear suspension so dramatically that it justifies buying the '09 bike? It seems like there's an efficiency improvement and weight reduction, but I can't decide what's marketing hype and what's real. At the very least, everyone seems to agree that the '09 is an improvement, but I am wondering if it justifies spending an additional $800 on the frame . . .

    FWIW, I am not a racer, not on team "get rad," and just ride for fun. I love long days, but ride a lot on my backyard cross country trail. I think I'm pretty sold on the Spot as a very versatile bike that will provide a damn good time!

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks a ton!

  2. #2
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    2003 5Spot owner here and love it, wouldn't change a thing. 2008 was the TNT version. Depends on your budget, I guess...$800 is a really nice fork, some nice hubs, new shoes, etc...but rest confident that you'll have an incredibly solid frame, super geo, and great CS to back up your purchase.
    Let me lock in the system at Warp 2
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  3. #3
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    if your trails are as techy as bham trails go dw link all the way. if you could rock them on a hardtail without problems i would say save the money. the dw link bikes are awesome at getting up to and maintaining speed on techy trails and pedal amazing through rough stuff since the suspension is always fully active. on smooth trails a locked out rear end or tons of propedal is probably faster. either way you are going to win.
    smoke crack and worship satan

  4. #4
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    once you get spoiled by DW link riding anything else kinda of doesnt work....

  5. #5
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    If it's possible for you money-wise, no question get the dw. The dw/VPP/Maestro/any other knock off any of these is the only current suspension design in my opinion - at least for long travel trail bikes that need to be active yet pedal efficiently. Any company who is using anything different is just milking a few more years and money out of their current molds while R&D hustles to keep up with Turner, SC, Intense, Ibis, Niner, Giant, and even (gasp!) Haro. Also watch your dw bike hold value while single pivots and four-bars go the way of the dinosaur.

    This is my very humble opinion, however. I'm no expert.
    Chocolate? This is doodoo, BABY!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dside11-11 View Post
    Also watch your dw bike hold value while single pivots and four-bars go the way of the dinosaur.
    that's funny.

    yeah, and remember -- throw away that pen and paper. you have a cell phone now.

    +++++++++++++++++

    Here's the skeptic's view.

    It all depends on what you want in a bike. Dside has his own opinion, and he holds it with convincing conviction, but it's just an opinion. Dside probably doesn't realize that the VPP/Outland design has been around for a long time, and it's only recent fads -- superb marketing by Dave Weagle, linked with Sam Hill's success on the Iron Horse Sunday -- that has people saying all other suspension designs are "dead."

    They're not dead. The fact that Turner moved to the DW-Link doesn't prove things are dead outside dw-link. It's more a reflection of Turner following fads.

    The VPP design bikes I've ridden, I did not like at all. I do not want to feel disconnected from the trail. I don't like that feeling. I don't know why anyone would want that feeling. The whole point of MTB riding is to have to deal with irregular terrain, in my view. The more a FS bike nullifies the feeling of terrain irregularity, the more it makes MTB riding like road riding. And while road riding is its own kind of fun, it's also really boring. The challenge has to do more with psychology, and not with technique. Technical challenge is why I ride MTBs.

    And I think VPP/Maestro/dw-link bikes dumb down the technical challenge too far, for me, for what I like in a bike.

    However, every person I know who has ridden a dw-link Turner has raved about it.

    At the same time, Turners have got rave reviews in every suspension platform they've used, so I'm not so sure it's all about dw-link.

    I think you'll be happy with either the 08 or the 09. Get the 09 if you want a Cadillac ride, the 08 if you want a VW/Audi ride.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle crud View Post
    that's funny.

    yeah, and remember -- throw away that pen and paper. you have a cell phone now.

    +++++++++++++++++

    Here's the skeptic's view.

    It all depends on what you want in a bike. Dside has his own opinion, and he holds it with convincing conviction, but it's just an opinion. Dside probably doesn't realize that the VPP/Outland design has been around for a long time, and it's only recent fads -- superb marketing by Dave Weagle, linked with Sam Hill's success on the Iron Horse Sunday -- that has people saying all other suspension designs are "dead."

    They're not dead. The fact that Turner moved to the DW-Link doesn't prove things are dead outside dw-link. It's more a reflection of Turner following fads.

    The VPP design bikes I've ridden, I did not like at all. I do not want to feel disconnected from the trail. I don't like that feeling. I don't know why anyone would want that feeling. The whole point of MTB riding is to have to deal with irregular terrain, in my view. The more a FS bike nullifies the feeling of terrain irregularity, the more it makes MTB riding like road riding. And while road riding is its own kind of fun, it's also really boring. The challenge has to do more with psychology, and not with technique. Technical challenge is why I ride MTBs.

    And I think VPP/Maestro/dw-link bikes dumb down the technical challenge too far, for me, for what I like in a bike.

    However, every person I know who has ridden a dw-link Turner has raved about it.

    At the same time, Turners have got rave reviews in every suspension platform they've used, so I'm not so sure it's all about dw-link.

    I think you'll be happy with either the 08 or the 09. Get the 09 if you want a Cadillac ride, the 08 if you want a VW/Audi ride.
    I agree with you on a lot crud but this is bull crap and you know it.

    well I enjoy my hardtails, my trance(old, short travel, heavy, steep geo bike) for all off those short comings the suspension design simply put, makes pedaling though rock gardens and up rooty climbs really easy and FASTER. The suspension is designed to work and not be lock out and feels like it goes though the trail instead of over it. while companies like Kona and Specail Ed do their best to hide the rear suspension, companies like those mentioned by Dside make bikes that have rear suspension that pedals great up and down, doesnt brake jack, and smooths out the trail better than anything else.

    bascially your saying that the new VVP style bikes make technical riding so easy that noone should buy them. is this not the point? If they make the stuff you use to be ride easier then guess what, find harder stuff to ride.

    your logic is the same logic some of the epic peeps use to defend skinny skis(for all use). Last I checked your werent anything like those people.

  8. #8
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    Of what I know of Kelly and your general stoke level on most things...

    I kinda see this two ways.

    You aren't much the type to bike nerd and switch frames up every or every other year. So for that reason if you can swing it why not splurge and buy the latest DW clad frame and love it dearly for years to come. I doubt you would regret getting the DW. People do seem to heart the new frame.

    On the other hand the 08 is still a really awesome bike and I'm certain you would have a ton of fun on it too. $800 is a notable chunk of money that could be used for other things or even saved.

    I think you will be happy which ever way you go. Treat yourself to the latest and greatest or save some money. You will still have a ton of fun and love your new bike regardless of 08 or 09.

  9. #9
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    the real question is what color she's gonna get...

    http://www.turnerbikes.com/010/010colors.html
    Let me lock in the system at Warp 2
    Push it on into systematic overdrive
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  10. #10
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    Everyone is going to have their own opinion on this....

    It really comes down to how sensitive you are to suspension design. Most every design from a legit manufacturer after 2005 has been *pretty* good. Even the single pivot stuff works gobs better thanks to advances in shock deisgn/valving etc.

    That being said I do believe VPP/Maestro/DW is the best design out there as far as having an "active" bike that stays neutral while pedaling. It's really really good. If you have a lot of really rough terrain that you are often pedaling through, it might be worth the money from a performance standpoint alone.

    If you just have "rough" terrain when descending, I think the money would be just as well spent on a kick ass shock (PUSH'ed DHX w/MX tune for instance.)Overall, I think once you get a feeling for the bike (either one) you'll find yourself enjoying them about equally.

    D-Sides point of resale is one to to take note of however....not to mention the placebo effect of riding the "latest and greatest".

  11. #11
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    I also have a 2003 turner 5 spot, stans no tubes, all xtr and replaced the coil rear shock with a fox. Fox is lighter but love the feel of a coil.
    Love this bike and it is bomb proof.
    Real interested to hear about the how the new linkage rides.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post
    I agree with you on a lot crud but this is bull crap and you know it.

    well I enjoy my hardtails, my trance(old, short travel, heavy, steep geo bike) for all off those short comings the suspension design simply put, makes pedaling though rock gardens and up rooty climbs really easy and FASTER. The suspension is designed to work and not be lock out and feels like it goes though the trail instead of over it. while companies like Kona and Specail Ed do their best to hide the rear suspension, companies like those mentioned by Dside make bikes that have rear suspension that pedals great up and down, doesnt brake jack, and smooths out the trail better than anything else.

    bascially your saying that the new VVP style bikes make technical riding so easy that noone should buy them. is this not the point? If they make the stuff you use to be ride easier then guess what, find harder stuff to ride.

    your logic is the same logic some of the epic peeps use to defend skinny skis(for all use). Last I checked your werent anything like those people.
    you've misread me here. I made it clear I was talking about FOR ME and that I was offering a skeptic's view.

    as to analogy to skis -- I don't ski the wide shit some Maggots ski. I know there is a place for challenge. I don't want skiing to be ridiculously easy. you want to get on planks that make the whole mountain one big fluff pile and eliminate half the challenge, go ahead. you want to get VPP suspension so that you can ride a Cadillac down the trail, go ahead. it's not for me, not with super-fat skis, not with VPP suspension. not for me.

    got it?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle crud View Post
    you've misread me here. I made it clear I was talking about FOR ME and that I was offering a skeptic's view.

    as to analogy to skis -- I don't ski the wide shit some Maggots ski. I know there is a place for challenge. I don't want skiing to be ridiculously easy. you want to get on planks that make the whole mountain one big fluff pile and eliminate half the challenge, go ahead. you want to get VPP suspension so that you can ride a Cadillac down the trail, go ahead. it's not for me, not with super-fat skis, not with VPP suspension. not for me.

    got it?
    if the fat skis or the plush suspension make it too easy for ya, you aren't going fast enough.

  14. #14
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    only you can decide whether the extra $$ is worth the extra performance. dave turner is a no-BS guy, and he simply feels that DW's design is a tool that is enabling TUrners to come a step closer to the ideal bike behavior he's been striving for for years.

    since the dw RFX is not out, and since the dw spot isn't what i'm looking for in terms of geo and travel, i got the new nomad & compared to all the single pivot bikes i've ridden it is pretty amazing. i've done some 40+ mile / 5,000 ft climbing rides recently, and it is just so damn sweet to have a 160 mm travel bike that doesn't require gobs of compression damping for the uphills. You just leave it in one mode, and on the tech parts of the climb (or short descents that interrupt the climb) the bike eats up the rocks no problemo but still pedals efficiently on the climb. For a true all-mtn bike, that's key. Constantly switching pro pedal and off is not a good solution...so the 'simple' single pivot bikes end up being more hassle if you ride a lot and ride long techy rides.

    As a bonus, the DW (and some other virtual pivot designs) sits higher in the rear travel, so with the correct frame and cockpit geo (low, WIDE bars) you can crank up steep hills w/o the need for a travel adjust fork to fight the wheelie effect. again, no big deal if you are an occasional rider, but if you ride a lot of high mileage climbs with techy or descent sections, this is a big plus too.

    And there's not much argument with the enhanced resale. Turner already started this by blowing out new 2008s at such a low price last year.
    Know of a pair of Fischer Ranger 107Ti 189s (new or used) for sale? PM me.

  15. #15
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    Another thing to consider is that the dw version will carry a more 'valid' warranty for a longer period of time since it's the current version and any replacement parts will be easy to get for a longer time.

    I've ridden both. The dw version punches the old frame in the willy in every way.

    Like most though, I'd just say it depends on how much you want to spend. The old version is a really good bike too.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  16. #16
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    I just happen to be selling an 08 Spot XL, in case anybody is interested.

    http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...=37511&cat=500

  17. #17
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    Haven't posted here in awhile, so it's nice to know I can still depend on this place to give me the info I need - really appreciate all the opinions to get a more balanced picture of what's out there!!!

    Leaning toward the '09 in blue . . . I hate myself for it, but I tend to have gucci taste!!! Just gotta pull the trigger now

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by telestoner View Post
    if the fat skis or the plush suspension make it too easy for ya, you aren't going fast enough.
    oooohhhh. big man talking. put your cock back in your pants. 3" of inchworm impresses nobody. e-riding impresses nobody. e-skiing impresses nobody. you want to impress me? ride with me, ski with me, show me you're the badass you pretend to be on the internet.

    pardon me while I bust a gut laughing at your arrogance.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle crud View Post
    oooohhhh. big man talking. put your cock back in your pants. 3" of inchworm impresses nobody. e-riding impresses nobody. e-skiing impresses nobody. you want to impress me? ride with me, ski with me, show me you're the badass you pretend to be on the internet.
    sweet. you're in missoula right? I'm moving there next week. didn't intend my comments as an insult and sorry you took it that way. pm me your info - i'd love to hook up for a ride or, when appropriate, a ski.

  20. #20
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    Funny...when suspension forks first came out there was a set of people that said "that's what your knees and elbows are for"....

    Sure, not everyone needs the latest and greatest but to choose lower levels of technology just to "make it more challenging" makes the little voice in my head say "you're doing it wrong!!!"

    But hey, to each their own...just don't sit there and give advice somebody about a bike purchase based on "making it more challenging" (unless they ask for it).

    A well tuned 6" travel VPP/Meastro/DW should open the trail up to you and make it more fun...not bore you. Just as going fast on fat skis and turning whenever/however you want should make things a *bit* more interesting rather than just easy (and yeah, if it is a bit easier yet somehow more fun than fuck yeah, I'll do that!!)

    /Blog

    (That being said I like riding my SS 29er on trails that probably are more well suited for a 6"&6" bike)

  21. #21
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    Cruds a hack. Don't listen to him.

    If you can afford the DW Fivespot I don't think you'll be dissapointed.

    I've heard nothing but good things about the DW bikes,even if DW is a jerk.

    Dave Turner is a great guy, I've had numerous discussions with him about my 2005 6pack when I went from a coil to an air shock.

    His decision to go with the DW link is because he always wants to try something new and be distinctive. The 5spot was on the drawing board for over a year before it went into production. The new RFX is probably still on paper, this guy is so particular.

    Blue is a nice colour!

    check out these reviews:
    http://www.mtbr.com/TRD_16_389crx.aspx

    Sharon ( lee's so)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by uncle crud View Post
    oooohhhh. big man talking. put your cock back in your pants. 3" of inchworm impresses nobody. e-riding impresses nobody. e-skiing impresses nobody. you want to impress me? ride with me, ski with me, show me you're the badass you pretend to be on the internet.

    pardon me while I bust a gut laughing at your arrogance.

    You're not going fast enough.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeeLau View Post
    His decision to go with the DW link is because he always wants to try something new and be distinctive.
    Sharon ( lee's so)
    that pisses me off. this is why the price of mountain bikes escalate year after year. we are paying through the nose for the annual, needless reinventions of perfectly good suspensions designs so Turner or whoever can sell us the 'latest and greatest must have'.

    I have a 2004 Turner Flux (the last ICT year I believe); the 4 bar design is fantastic both uphill and down. no complaints whatsoever. I know he was trying to dump the Ellsworth patent fee or something so in that case a redesign might of been necessary but the switch to the DW is just another expensive marketing gimmick .

    get the '08.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post

    I have a 2004 Turner Flux (the last ICT year I believe); the 4 bar design is fantastic both uphill and down. no complaints whatsoever. I know he was trying to dump the Ellsworth patent fee or something so in that case a redesign might of been necessary but the switch to the DW is just another expensive marketing gimmick .

    get the '08.
    2005 was the last year of the ICT/Horst suspension design. He didn't dump the ICT design, Tony Ellsworth would not allow him to use the design so he moved the link from the chain stay to the seat stay to create the TNT linkage. He has been looking for something new and innovative since then.

    My 6pack does bob alot when climbing so the platform shock is great. Amazing DH'r though! I love my 6pack.

    From anectodal reports most people can't tell the difference from a real four bar horst link ( pre 2005 turner ) to a faux bar single pivot ( 2006-2008).

    check out the Turner forum on MTBR to get the full meal geek out deal.

    Sharon.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xyz View Post
    but the switch to the DW is just another expensive marketing gimmick .
    Heh.


    Go ride the 09 and try to say that with a straight face.
    Besides the comet that killed the dinosaurs nothing has destroyed a species faster than entitled white people.-ajp

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