some damn good IPA's out there

[HankScorpio]

I’ll take 10% of the price as a tax write off since it goes to the Green Mountain Club

Attachment 301794

Got a 4 pack of that the other day. Very tasty, especially for 5.5% ABV.

[BC.]

UVM beer run this weekend...stocked up for Thanksgiving.....Hope I don’t drink em all before then..lol

[jackstraw]

Yeah, there's one ipa in there, but how bout the flight tray! The ski choice could be better, but cool concept.

[Telemarketeer]

Yeah, there's one ipa in there, but how bout the flight tray! The ski choice could be better, but cool concept.

Vail brewing Company out here does some colabs with Lone Pine. Always good stuff.

[Todd Zander]

UVM beer run this weekend...stocked up for Thanksgiving.....Hope I don’t drink em all before then..lol

that used to be good.

before they went to extract

[SB]

They are probably try to stay in business by going to less expensive extract brew.

[Peruvian]

that used to be good.

before they went to extract

When was that? I thought I noticed a difference within the last year or so.

You could always brew your own.

[BC.]

that used to be good.

before they went to extract

I wish I had it before...I thought they were good now....that supply didn’t last a weekend...let alone save any for this week...

[Todd Zander]

it used to be my favorite, actually walked in with a full boat at the store still cold and left with quite a lot. they made the switch about 9-12 months ago.

sink or swim i guess

[The AD]

Good shit. Seek it out.

[Fritz]

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...nt-proves.aspx

Wow. Sounds like they took quite a bath on that deal. That was a stupid amount of money for that brand. Good for the former owners though they fucked the man good and hard.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[jackstraw]

Ok

Very good

Supah smooth


And all sidwaze!!! Wtf

[evdog]

[URL]Wow. Sounds like they took quite a bath on that deal. That was a stupid amount of money for that brand. Good for the former owners though they fucked the man good and hard.

They also held onto their distillery, re-named Cutwater Spirits, and sold that to AB InBev earlier this year for $4B. Lets hope that one crashes just as hard.

[Self Jupiter]

Punch by Tree House is outstanding. Apologies for stock photo.

[evdog]

https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/...nt-proves.aspx

Wow. Sounds like they took quite a bath on that deal. That was a stupid amount of money for that brand. Good for the former owners though they fucked the man good and hard.

Interesting article in SD Union Tribune on how the deal happened
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...cid=spartandhp

[EWG]

Punch by Tree House is outstanding. Apologies for stock photo.

I agree, but have to admit it is lower down on the Treehouse ladder for me. It’s a bit syrupy and sweet compared to some of their others. Picking nits though. I still find it excellent.

[EWG]

Interesting article in SD Union Tribune on how the deal happened
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...cid=spartandhp

I don’t think you can overstate how shocking this is inside the industry. We’ve been estimating it sold for about 100 mil. Just a guess, no figures have been released. As I understand it AB is keeping the production facility and some other brick and mortar. Let’s say that’s worth 150 mil (likely a high estimate). I’m sure the accountants have burned the number down on paper, but it reality they destroyed about 3/4 of a BILLION in value in 4 years. That’s insane. Of course they overplayed by double. Had they not done that they would have only lost a couple hundred million.

Ballast is in a bad place. They are no longer cutting edge like the smaller breweries (little ones like Treehouse above or regional ones like Avery or Surly) where the beers are constantly being reinvented. They are a not great value like Breckenridge or Saranac or Sierra. They are not both like a Firestone or a Stone. So the have very little draw besides eroding reputation.

I think these guys can save this if they are savvy. I’ve seen this move fail (probably shouldnt mention where) and I’ve seen it succeed in a kind of similar way (Karbach) and it has everything to do with the operators.

Regardless, it’s shocking and fascinating.

[Name Redacted]

I don’t think you can overstate how shocking this is inside the industry. We’ve been estimating it sold for about 100 mil. Just a guess, no figures have been released. As I understand it AB is keeping the production facility and some other brick and mortar. Let’s say that’s worth 150 mil (likely a high estimate). I’m sure the accountants have burned the number down on paper, but it reality they destroyed about 3/4 of a BILLION in value in 4 years. That’s insane. Of course they overplayed by double. Had they not done that they would have only lost a couple hundred million.

Ballast is in a bad place. They are no longer cutting edge like the smaller breweries (little ones like Treehouse above or regional ones like Avery or Surly) where the beers are constantly being reinvented. They are a not great value like Breckenridge or Saranac or Sierra. They are not both like a Firestone or a Stone. So the have very little draw besides eroding reputation.

I think these guys can save this if they are savvy. I’ve seen this move fail (probably shouldnt mention where) and I’ve seen it succeed in a kind of similar way (Karbach) and it has everything to do with the operators.

Regardless, it’s shocking and fascinating.

AB? You mean constellation?

At that discount, these guys should be able to wring a profit out of the brand before it goes tits up. Or just sell off the assets, who knows.

Industry is being shaken up. Large production breweries can't compete with the little neighborhood guys. Most of the companies you listed have, or will be sold at a discount to AB or someone like them.

New Belgium, the employee owned, earth friendly, "We're better than everybody" but not really brewery just sold to Kirin, an Australian owned, Japanese company that helped finance human rights violation in Myanmar. Now that's news!
Avery? Who drinks Avery anymore? They are struggling hard, and also partially owned by investment from outside the industry.
Stone? Big layoffs and sold off the Berlin brewery they just built (to Brewdog).
Breck? Over-invested and sold out to AB before they even finished buildout of their massive new facility. They were smart to get out early though.
Sierra? Might make it, but that new Taj Mahal in NC must have set them back, just like it did NB. Hmmmm.
Firestone? Surly? No idea, but guessing they are in the same position. Firestone probably makes the best beer of any mentioned, but damn I miss the WookieJack.

Beer is going to return to the neighborhood. Small, authentic, quality, local breweries that connect with their patrons. That or hard seltzer, could go either way.

[jackstraw]

It is interesting how some of the bigger guys like Stone and Firestone are still relevant in this crazy market...especially in New England. We have a stoopid amount of really good tiny breweries now.

[The AD]

Ballast Point had (has?) some really good beers, but it seems like since Constellation took over their strategy was "let's see how many new variants of Sculpin we can produce." One thing that's cool about Ballast Point is they still run a homebrew shop in San Diego. That's where my dad picks up most of his supplies. Seems like a trend in the SD beer scene for breweries to get just a little too big for their britches: Stone, Green Flash...

[EWG]

AB? You mean constellation?

At that discount, these guys should be able to wring a profit out of the brand before it goes tits up. Or just sell off the assets, who knows.

Industry is being shaken up. Large production breweries can't compete with the little neighborhood guys. Most of the companies you listed have, or will be sold at a discount to AB or someone like them.

New Belgium, the employee owned, earth friendly, "We're better than everybody" but not really brewery just sold to Kirin, an Australian owned, Japanese company that helped finance human rights violation in Myanmar. Now that's news!
Avery? Who drinks Avery anymore? They are struggling hard, and also partially owned by investment from outside the industry.
Stone? Big layoffs and sold off the Berlin brewery they just built (to Brewdog).
Breck? Over-invested and sold out to AB before they even finished buildout of their massive new facility. They were smart to get out early though.
Sierra? Might make it, but that new Taj Mahal in NC must have set them back, just like it did NB. Hmmmm.
Firestone? Surly? No idea, but guessing they are in the same position. Firestone probably makes the best beer of any mentioned, but damn I miss the WookieJack.

Beer is going to return to the neighborhood. Small, authentic, quality, local breweries that connect with their patrons. That or hard seltzer, could go either way.

Yes constellation, thinking and typing too fast, sorry.

Generally, I agree with everything you said.

Avery is now 2/3 owned by outside. NB cashed out when they sold to their employees, who of course sold out when they had the chance. Breck is doing great, but they were uniquely positioned to be the easy craft beer for folks that weren't hardcore and AB did a great job of selling that.

The hardcore beer lovers want that connection to new and different and edgy. Many of the regionals and large craft guys were once that - Dogfish, Firestone, Sierra, Ballast, Avery, Great Divide, Surly, Victory, Golden Road, Deschutes, NB, 21st, etc etc, but once you get to a certain size you lose that ability to personally connect to the tastes of your core, especially when you have hyper local competition. The next generation that are only large enough to serve their converts, and can instantly respond to their following's changing taste, have a healthier position right now. Breweries such as Treehouse and Lawson's and Melvin at the larger end, Two Roads and Liquid Mechanics at the smaller end have the rabid followers the bigger group used to have. Also, when the entire focus of the rabid beer fans is to try new stuff it makes it really really hard to keep your following over time.

It is a fascinating time in craft beer. Brewdog, who you mention, are really interesting to me as an example. They are spending cash like crazy, and it seems to be working. I wonder if it will have an expiration date.

If you make great beer and have a great vibe in a local brewpub/restaurant, you should do just fine. Otherwise, you are rolling dice unless you are a fantastic business person. The older generation of brewers did NOT get into this because they were business people...

[SB]

Yep, gonna loose a bunch of breweries. Looking at equipment in online auctions.

We picked up barely used 1/2 barrels for $50 each and sixtels for $35 each recently.

Just brewed an IPA yesterday, still tweaking it.

Gotta get the tap room started. Permits are done.

[dookeyXXX]

...Beer is going to return to the neighborhood. Small, authentic, quality, local breweries that connect with their patrons. That or hard seltzer, could go either way.

I think this might very well be the case. We have 4 breweries in Truckee. 3 of them can, but their distribution is wonky (can't get most of them in the local markets, but you can pick up cans at the breweries/brew pubs).

Reno has at least 10 breweries. Again, most of them don't distribute locally much, so you have to trek to the brewery to pick up their beers.

In regards to the BP news, I actually haven't seen their beers around Truckee/Tahoe/Reno lately. Ditto for Saint Archer. I remember when both of those were really prevalent.

Sierra Nevada, Firestone, and a few other "larger" craft breweries still tend to dominate the store shelves here. But I find their beers to be boring and MOR at best.

I try my best to stay as local as possible, but most of the breweries around here can the same 4 or 5 beers all the time and don't experiment much with what they can (you have to go to the brewery to get their newest concoctions). If any of these breweries were within walking distance of my house I'd probably be there 2-3 nights a week, that's for sure!

Sacramento has a serious local beer scene...will be interesting to see how they pan out in 10 years time as there are so many.

Also, the new thing around here are farm breweries. Quite a few have been popping up in the Sierra foothills (Auburn, Lincoln, Rocklin). Again, I'd frequent them if they were within walking distance...

[SB]

Farm breweries are hawt. We have our own malting process with crops grown on the farm. Farm next door grows hops.

We just kegged the first batch of all local ingredient beer, a saison called Farm Use.

We are small and demand is there already. Keeping the reins in tight for now. Locally self distributing to a few select bars and restaurants.

[Name Redacted]

Some more info in this article about the NB sale:

Hop Take: For National Craft Breweries Like New Belgium, Independence Is Not Sustainable

https://vinepair.com/articles/hop-ta...form=hootsuite

Looking at the other BA-defined craft breweries, VinePair co-founder Josh Malin cleverly pointed out how the mighty are falling, starting with the top 15 craft brewing companies of 2018:

Yuengling produces sub-par light lager, and no beer geek considers it craft.
Boston Beer Co. is thriving thanks to flavored malt beverages (FMBs) such as Truly Hard Seltzer and Twisted Tea. It recently beefed up its beer portfolio by purchasing Dogfish Head Craft Brewery in May 2019.
Sierra Nevada’s Hazy Little Thing IPA is one of the most important IPAs right now. But it took impressive engineering to turn the brewery around after two years of falling sales of its flagship Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.
New Belgium sold to Kirin, one of the largest brewing companies in the world.
Duvel Moortgat, a Belgian brewery most definitely considered “big” by small(er) independent breweries in Belgium, owns Firestone Walker, Boulevard Brewing, and Brewery Ommegang in the U.S.
Gambrinus owns Shiner Beer and Truman Pils. Good for them!
Bell’s Brewery is kickin’ it, but it also pulled back distribution in Virginia and is in the midst of a dispute with a distributor there.
CANarchy, a brewery group including Oskar Blues, Cigar City, Three Weavers, Perrin, Deep Ellum, and Utah Brewers Cooperative’s Squatters Craft Beers and Wasatch Brewery, is backed by private equity firm Fireman Capital.
Stone Brewing has been ginning up press for almost two years now after suing MillerCoors in February 2018. On top of that, it shuttered its Berlin brewery, handing the keys over to BrewDog in April 2019. And its $90 million “True Craft” investment fund went by the wayside.
Deschutes laid off 10 percent of its employees last year and cancelled plans to build a new brewery in Virginia this year.
Artisanal Brewing Ventures — comprised of Victory Brewing, Southern Tier Brewing, Sixpoint Brewery, and, as of Wednesday, Nov. 20, 2019, Bold Rock Cider — is another rollup.
Brooklyn Brewery took investment from Kirin to the highest possible percentage (24.5 percent) to still be considered craft/independent.
Dogfish Head sold to Boston Beer.
SweetWater Brewing took private equity money from TSG Consumer Partners.
Minhas is a mystery.