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08-13-2009, 02:06 AM #1
Overheating problem with my Legacy Outback
I've got a '98 2.5 litre 4 cyl outback wagon (like everyone else), recently I had problems w/ it overheating. I've researched online that the the one bad thing it has is it's head gasket.
My Subaru has 150,000 miles on it, I fear this is the problem, the thing that sucks is that this is not a cheap fix, anyone have any history with this??? The shop I brought it to in Jackson (5959, a good place that won't BS you) could not find a problem & that worries myself. I'm gonna call them & get the coolant flushed, but I wanna do a compression test, to make sure. I feel it may be time soon to replace it. I researched online & found that was an Achilles' Heel of the late 90's Subaru models. I really don't wanna rack up my charge card.Always charging it in honor of Flyin' Ryan Hawks.
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08-13-2009, 02:12 AM #2
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08-13-2009, 02:18 AM #3
Consider yourself lucky that you've made it 150k without HG problems.
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08-13-2009, 03:13 AM #4
I did a bunch of research with my 96...
from what I remember the deal with the head gasket problem is that they will leak just a little bit of combustion gas into the coolant, so there is no problem most of the time. Under certain conditions enough gas gets pushed into the liquid to cause the water pump to lose prime.
I remember seeing that if you have a black film in the coolant reservoir or a test on a coolant sample shows lots of hydrocarbons, and you can look at the reservoir while it's running and see little bubbles bubbling up you've got the intermittently overheating subaru 2.5 head gasket deal.
It's hard to diagnose because the car won't overheat for the mechanic and none of the usual suspects for overheating are a problem. It's doesn't have oil in the coolant, or vice versa, and it's not burning oil or coolant, and it doesn't run like shit or have bad compression so it doesn't present like most head gasket failures.
So, you might look into what I did, which was to confirm that a 2.2 swap was workable, then locate a decent 2.2 and have BobMC's shop do the hard part.
The 2.2 got better gas mileage, and it was a non-interference valvetrain, which is a nice improvement.
There is a lot of searchable info on this stuff at
www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum
It's worth mentioning that with this, if you have an inconstantly replicating intermittent overheating problem with your 98 2.5, and you have the coolant bubbles, you might best look up the typical "mystery head gasket" thread on that site and elsewhere. People spend a lot of money and time putting water pumps and radiators, and doing compression tests in cars, think all must be fixed, then eventually overheat and wreck the heads, which are not cheap.
It seems like this was a real mystery for a lot of people. My 96 had a new water pump and a new radiator and hoses when i got it, and I'm 99% sure somebody got rid of it because they couldn't figure out why it was still overheating at some random times with a brand new water pump and radiator and good compression.
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08-13-2009, 06:40 AM #5yelgatgab
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When the HG went on my '98, there was no mystery to it. The coolant reservoir was black and bubbling, and a quick test at a local service station showed that it was leaking over.
2.2 is an option, but it'll be cheaper to just fix the 2.5, and with the new HGs you won't have to worry about them going again. BobMC did the fix on mine and threw in a new timing belt and clutch while he had the engine out.Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.
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08-13-2009, 07:56 AM #6
I am of no help, I'm just hear to put my seal of approval on the CSI:Miami alias.
edgDo you realize that you've just posted an admission of ignorance so breathtaking that it disqualifies you from commenting on any political or economic threads from here on out?
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08-13-2009, 08:04 AM #7
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08-13-2009, 10:47 AM #8
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08-13-2009, 11:10 AM #9
On of my housemates is a mechanic and he and a friend have a little shop going in our garage where he and a friend fix neighborhood cars. He just finished replacing a headgasket on a ~98 forester. It is quite the process- these guys have been mechanics for 10 years and it still took them 4 or 5 days to take the engine apart, make sure the headgasket was the only problem, and put it back all back together.
He showed me why the problem exists and is particularly bad with the 2.5- it is very similar to the 2.2, except the cylinders are a bit wider (obviously), so it makes the head gasket that much smaller around the cylinders. This makes it more susceptible to head gasket failure, and once replaced it can very well happen again, just another 150K down the road.
I've had 2 subaru legacy wagons- 94 and 89- both right hand drive in NZ. The 94 was great- pretty much indestructiblewhile I had it, but the 89 dropped a rod, blew the head gasket, or something the day before I was set to sell it. It was pretty much a total loss at that point.
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08-13-2009, 11:14 AM #10
Change the thermostat first? Relatively cheap and accomplished easily in your driveway. I had to do it in two different late 80's GL wagons both with over 180K on them.
"Have fun, get a flyrod, and give the worm dunkers the finger when you start double hauling." ~Lumpy
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08-13-2009, 08:30 PM #11
I was going to say the same thing. Won't cost much and at least you'll feel like you've done something proactive. Another thought, I'd dump a bottle of Royal Purple radiator treatment into your radiator. Now you're down another $10 but between the two it might just get the job done. If not...well.
Five minutes into the drive and you're already driving me crazy...
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08-13-2009, 09:45 PM #12glocal
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- May 2002
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x2 on thermostat.
Anyone had any luck adding stop leak to the coolant on this issue?
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08-14-2009, 12:31 AM #13
My thermostat was changed earlier this year, the shop my buddies trust in Jackson ,WY could not find anything with the gauge going in the red, after driving it around a bunch. I might be in the clear, although I'm gonna be nervous driving 35 miles from JH to my lodge in Teton Nat'l Park. I've got AAA, it just bugs me I guess.
The day it overheated in July I drove from Moran, WY to Jackson then over the pass to Driggs, ID & back again on a hot July day. That may have triggered it, I have feeling something needs to be replaced, but don't know what. There was no visible coolant leak that I could see. The shop I brought to knows what they are doing, they don't BS you, they drove it around a little bit this week, and found no problems they could find, I'm just gonna have find out I guess later on. I guess I gotta like a shop not selling me stuff my car does not need.Always charging it in honor of Flyin' Ryan Hawks.
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08-14-2009, 03:23 AM #14
imo it's prolly the radiator if it happens under heavy load (like going over passes in summer). mine has suffered the last three summers but works fine in the winter.
outbacks have very small but efficient radiators. they lose efficiency and the workload becomes too much. you can get a new radiator online for $180 and it's a very easy switch. did it with my last one and i need to do it with my new one, but i suck at not procrastinating.
in the other thread i mentioned that subies will fix themselves or adapt. my radiator hasn't gotten worse in three years. i'll be loading it with four girls, camping and fishing gear probably on the top too, and heading up over Yuba pass to sardine lakes this weekend. we'll leave early to make sure were going up the pass before the it gets hot, and we'll stop whenever needed (just like we will hiking later, when someone wants a break).
she keeps going, we adapt.
edit- funny thing is, the radiator doctor wants $300 for a new radiator or to flush the existing one.
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08-14-2009, 07:04 AM #15skier
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Are you sure you didn't fill the coolant tank with some of those Vermont Microbrews back in the day?
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08-14-2009, 09:25 AM #16
1. Check the coolant resevoir, as mentioned before. If is normal color with no signs of oil, good. Check drained oil for coolant, too. If both of these are normal, your head gasket is probably fine.
2. Never hurts to flush your radiator. There are some additives that prevent bubbling, etc. but I've never tried them.
3. Check your hoses?
4. And my favorite culprit in these goose chases: check your guages and sensors!
good luck"All God does is watch us and kill us when we get boring. We must never, ever be boring."
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08-14-2009, 11:32 AM #17
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08-14-2009, 12:48 PM #18
thanks for your help guys
Always charging it in honor of Flyin' Ryan Hawks.
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08-14-2009, 10:16 PM #19
When I called the mechanic to let him know my Subaru was overheating (after the thermostat had already been replaced), he proceeded to tell me the approximate year of my car and the mileage. He told me he had one in the shop right then with the same problem. Turns out Subaru has had a ton of issues with the HG on the late-90's models.
"No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible" -Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
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08-17-2009, 04:01 AM #20
regular consistent overheating = easy straightforward stuff.
weird inconsistent overheating with 1998 2.5L subaru = "the 2.5L head gasket problem they all get"
You have to figure this out for yourself. I would just caution against being the 115,000th guy to put a radiator, water pump, and thermostat in the car then overheat it and warp the heads the next time you push too much gas into the cooling system and cavitate your new water pump.
something to think about
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08-17-2009, 08:49 AM #21
I hate to tell you this man, but I think you're pretty much fucked. I have a 98 legacy 2.5gt that had the same problem. I replaced the thermostat thinking that would do the trick....nope. Did some internet research and found out there is something called the "120,000mile head gasket club" for Subie's of this vintage with the 2.5 motor. My wrench wants roughly $1800 to do the HGs and all the other seals and gaskets in the motor. My wallet can't afford $1800 right now, so my poor car has sat in the driveway for the last 8 months. I drive it on short trips around town once in a while to keep things moving, but damn I want my car back and running. I hate being a broke student. FML. On the bright side though, you can have the stainless steel headgaskets from the older WRXs put in there and you'll never have to worry about tearing a HG again. Best of luck with this man. But I think if you wanna fix the problem you're going to have to drop some coin unfortunately.
edit: mine went at about 121,000 miles....consider yourself lucky to have made it to 150k.Originally Posted by DoWork
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