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Thread: DPS skis: drill bit size?

  1. #1
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    DPS skis: drill bit size?

    In an old thread here, marshal (IIRC) says to use a 3.5 x 7mm "junior" drill bit to mount DPS skis, due to the thinner profile of the skis.

    [EDIT] -- CONSENSUS AND DPS' INSTRUCTION IS TO USE A 4.1 X 9MM STANDARD BIT. DO NOT USE A "JUNIOR" BIT.


    In the email from DPS that accompanied my recent order, DPS says to use a 4.1 x 9mm bit.

    I emailed DPS to ask why I shouldn't use a 3.6 x 9mm standard bit (and why they recommend a 4.1 bit), as I don't think these skis have any metal in them -- and a 4.1 bit is generally only recommended for a metal-topsheet ski. It's been several days, and am still waiting on a reply from DPS. Does the carbon fiber in the ski act similar to a metal topsheet, and require a larger drill hole in order to avoid mushrooming?

    The skis in question are '07-08 Lotus 120, 190cm. I'm putting Dynafits on them.
    Last edited by El Chupacabra; 12-21-2009 at 11:19 AM.

  2. #2
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    My tech had the same concern as you, and I confirmed with DPS that the drill bit was as they reccomend, 4.1, don't remember the length. My w95 have been fine mounted with the 4.1.
    Last edited by harpo-the-skier; 04-15-2009 at 12:10 PM.

  3. #3
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    do what that company says to do with their skis
    save the email

    if anything happens, dps should take care of you
    if not, at least you have it in writing from them.

  4. #4
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    FWIW I have mounted all of my DPS's w/ a 3.6 x 9 bit and hand hand tighten the screws. I personally think it's better to go with a smaller hole than a larger one. Really, is there any harm going with a smaller bit?

    Marshall's old post was when the skis were a thiner and to make sure you wound not dimple the bases. I have not ripped out a mount yet ...fingers crossed... (Dukes & Dynafit)

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by foreal View Post
    Marshall's old post was when the skis were a thiner and to make sure you wound not dimple the bases. I have not ripped out a mount yet ...fingers crossed... (Dukes & Dynafit)
    so if i just picked up a pair of 05/06 lotus138s i should use the smaller bit?

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    Quote Originally Posted by foreal View Post
    FWIW I have mounted all of my DPS's w/ a 3.6 x 9 bit and hand hand tighten the screws. I personally think it's better to go with a smaller hole than a larger one. Really, is there any harm going with a smaller bit?
    I know its counter-intuitive, but smaller-than-recommended pilot holes actually make the mount weaker. Zeno did a lot of screw pull out tests on ttips.

  7. #7
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    I'm leaning toward the 3.6 x 9mm size bit, but pechelman makes a good point.

    I'd still like someone from DPS to chime in.

  8. #8
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    Here’s the latest in mounting position info and some quick notes:

    •The Rocker 1 (stripe graphic), Lotus 138, 192cm, is riding best at -1 cm behind the “midsole” line. The Rocker 2 (straight black graphic), Lotus 138, 192cm will ride well at “midsole”.

    •All Wailer and other Lotus models are skiing well at “midsole” for aggressive skiers who want their skis to shine at speed. Mounting points within the sweet spot range are a matter of personal preference. For example, between DPS designers, Stephan Drake skis the Wailers at the “midsole” mark, and Pete Turner prefers + 1cm ahead of midsole. European manager, Tobias Liljeroth skis his Lotus 120’s all the way at +4cm ahead of midsole for a buttery feel.

    •Use midsole recommendations as guides, and a place for you to start and hopefully stay. Generally, if you feel like you want more stability at speed and/or the skis will not finish the end phase of the turn for you, move backwards. If you feel like the shovel is too numb and the ski is not as reactive as you would like at the beginning of the turn, move forwards.

    •Have your shop drill the skis with a 3.5mm diameter drill bit as opposed to 4.1mm. Use epoxy or a urethane-based glue such as Gorilla glue to fill the holes. Make sure you find someone you trust to drill them. These are high performance beauties, and nothing ruins your day like a mis-mount.

    •Make sure you get a good wax when mounting. Wax often and regularly. The bases on all DPS skis are very hard, with a high graphite content that makes them both durable and very fast. They respond really well to frequent waxing. Conversely, they slow down quickly when not attended to.

    •Your bases will come with a semi corse stone structure. If you are skiing in cold climates, and dry snow, you may want to specify a “finer” stone structure on your next tune. Finer structures are faster in cold snow.

    Have fun, find some deep snow, and let us know if you have any questions.

    -the DPS crew.
    -------------------

  9. #9
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    ^^^

    Here's what came with my skis:

    ***********************************
    Your DPS boards are on their way.

    Your tracking number is: ______________
    You can track your package at: http://www.fedex.com/

    The 2008-2009 DPS Tech Manual is attached to this email, which includes detailed mounting instructions and tuning information.

    Here’s the latest in mounting position info and some quick notes:

    • The new Red Lotus 138, 192cm is riding best at the “midsole” line.
    • The 06-07 White/Red Stripe Lotus 138 is riding best at -1cm behind the “midsole line.
    • The 07-08 Black 202cm Lotus 138 is riding best at -1cm behind the “midsole” line.
    • The 178cm Cassiar is riding best at -1cm behind the “midsole” line.

    • All Wailer and other Lotus models are skiing well at “midsole” for aggressive skiers who want their skis to shine at speed. Mounting points within the sweet spot range are a matter of personal preference but we encourage you to start at “midsole”.

    • Use midsole recommendations as guides and a place for you to start and hopefully stay. Generally, if you feel like you want more stability at speed and/or the skis will not finish the end phase of the turn for you, move backwards. If you feel like the shovel is too numb and the ski is not as reactive as you would like at the beginning of the turn, move forwards.

    • Have your shop drill the skis with a standard 4.1mm bit. Use, OR SPECIFY TO YOUR TECH THAT A TWO-PART EPOXY IS USED TO FILL HOLES. FAILURE TO USE EPOXY FOR MOUNTING WILL VOID YOUR WARRANTY. Make sure you find someone you trust to drill them. These are high-performance beauties and nothing ruins your day like a mismount.

    • Make sure you get a good wax when mounting. Wax often and regularly. The bases on all DPS skis are very hard with a high graphite content that makes them both durable and very fast. They respond really well to frequent waxing. Conversely, they slow down quickly when not attended to.

    • Your bases will come with a semi-coarse stone structure. If you are skiing in cold climates and dry snow, you may want to specify a “finer” stone structure on your next tune. Finer structures are faster in cold snow.

    Have fun, find some deep snow, and let us know if you have any questions.

    -the DPS crew.
    ******************************

    So -- Mr. Toad's skis specified a 3.5mm bit, and mine specified a 4.1mm bit.

    Hmm....


    DPS? You out there? Please clarify.
    Last edited by El Chupacabra; 04-15-2009 at 10:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    4.1mm x 9mm is great. Just remember to use epoxy or a good urethane glue will suffice. no wood glues, etc. go easy with the drill- don't dimple the topsheet, or you risk dimpling the bases.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by harpo-the-skier View Post
    My tech had the same concern as you, and I confirmed with DPS that the drill bit was as they reccomend, 4.1, don't remember the length. My w95 have been fine mounted with the 4.1.
    Harpo - who's your tech? I thinking its cheap insurance to let a pro do this one.

  12. #12
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    Both Aaron and Paul at Sports Ltd have each mounted one of my DPS skis with Dynafits. Both were slightly tricky mounts (I wanted to be sure my bindings would fit two different pairs of boots) They are the only guys in town with a Dynafit jig.

    If Brent at Powderhouse had the right jig, I would send him the work - he has alot of experience with botique skis. Powderhouse at Pioneer, were he works, closes this Sunday. Brent also corrected the factory bevel on my new DPS W95s.

  13. #13
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    What did they charge for Dynafit/dps?

  14. #14
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    I got a hook up, but they have charged me as much as $65 for tricky AT mounts. Call them at 542 4000 to know for sure.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    4.1mm x 9mm is great. Just remember to use epoxy or a good urethane glue will suffice. no wood glues, etc. go easy with the drill- don't dimple the topsheet, or you risk dimpling the bases.
    Thanks DPS -- appreciate the update.

    I also got an email back from Mike at DPS with the same info, so I'll go with a 4.1 x 9mm bit.

    I tested out pechelman's paper template for the 306mm BSL Dynafit hole pattern, on a 2x4, and it's perfect -- even the boot center line mark on the template lines up precisely with the center line on my boots. Lotus coming next...

  16. #16
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    id also say to be sure to use epoxy

    dont fool with those urethanes.....

  17. #17
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    BUMP

    any change to the instructions above (esp using the 4.1 x 9mm bit)? looking to mount this year's W105s with Dynafits and want to make sure the shop understands exactly what they are supposed to be doing
    fur bearing, drunk, prancing eurosnob

  18. #18
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    4.1x9 is till $$$$
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  19. #19
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    thanks dude
    fur bearing, drunk, prancing eurosnob

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    4.1x9 is till $$$$
    It seems counter intuitive that they would recommend drilling a larger diameter (4.1) hole if there is no metal/tapping and the screws need to be epoxied in. I have been getting great results with a 3.6X8.0 bit (go ahead and counter-sink) and two-part epoxy on DPS's.
    No dimpled bases and all the screws are solid. I will still only use a 4.1 bit on skis with a metal laminate or a super dense topsheet material.
    Leave No Turn Unstoned!

  21. #21
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    i personally use the 3.6x9 on mine, but the official tech spec from the engineer is 4.1 - for reasons of the carbon topsheet. the epoxy is not to retain the binding, but rather to seal and rebond the carbon as well. i like to use the uerethane glue from a tube. works awesome for me.
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  22. #22
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    the OP from a year or two ago as based on a post of mine from the very 1st year of product. please do not pay atention to that!
    go for rob

    www.dpsskis.com

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshalolson View Post
    the OP from a year or two ago as based on a post of mine from the very 1st year of product. please do not pay atention to that!
    I'll update the original post.
    Quote Originally Posted by powder11 View Post
    if you have to resort to taking advice from the nitwits on this forum, then you're doomed.

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