Creatine

[BigDaddyLionfish]

Hey everyone... My 15 year old son recently asked me if he could start taking Creatine in conjunction with his workouts. He doesn't want to do anything that could potentially hurt his body, and it appears to be completely safe as far as it has been tested. However, the long-term effects are not known yet (I don't think). Any suggestions?

P.S. He is reallllyyy strong for his age (benches 185) if that matters, which I don't think it does... but just in case

[wanghoeby]

I'm pretty sure that it's about the same as any other herbal supplement found in energy drinks. Minimal studies solidly confirming its positive affects and few, if any, describing it as a harmful substance during workout. However, it does occur naturally in your body, so it may be a little safer than others out there.

That being said, I'd still talk to your pediatrician or school athletic coach regarding dosage.

[flyby]

what are his squat/DL at? if he doesn't do squats, deadlifts, overhead press, or proper compound lifts, he has no idea what he is doing and is probably not ready to be on anything like creatine (despite the fact that it is a low level supplement). a proper trainer/workout program will be expensive but will accomplish 10 times more than creatine and protein powder can. remember that especially at this age form is very very important as any damage he does to his body now will affect him for the rest of his life.

normally i'd say no at that age but if he's been working out for a year or more with a good program (i.e. a set rotation that makes sense, get it from him and post it if you can) and his gains have slowed already then it probably wouldn't hurt. get the monohydrate and look up proper procedure on cycling it or you're going to fuck up his body. he will look bloated when he's on it but that is normal. all that creatine really does is gives you the strength to push out those extra 1-2 reps so that you can work with heavier weights and make faster gains. creatine isn't dangerous but make sure you don't give him a reliance on stuff like that

[BigDaddyLionfish]

what are his squat/DL at? if he doesn't do squats, deadlifts, overhead press, or proper compound lifts, he has no idea what he is doing and is probably not ready to be on anything like creatine (despite the fact that it is a low level supplement). a proper trainer/workout program will be expensive but will accomplish 10 times more than creatine and protein powder can. remember that especially at this age form is very very important as any damage he does to his body now will affect him for the rest of his life.

normally i'd say no at that age but if he's been working out for a year or more with a good program (i.e. a set rotation that makes sense, get it from him and post it if you can) and his gains have slowed already then it probably wouldn't hurt. get the monohydrate and look up proper procedure on cycling it or you're going to fuck up his body. he will look bloated when he's on it but that is normal. all that creatine really does is gives you the strength to push out those extra 1-2 reps so that you can work with heavier weights and make faster gains. creatine isn't dangerous but make sure you don't give him a reliance on stuff like that

He squats 205-215. He doesn't do deadlifts, so I have no idea what he could do. He curls 35s and 5-reps 40s. He has been working out on a constant basis for the last 2 years, and is using a pretty consistent program. I will ask him in a little while and see if he can post it up

[BurnHard]

Creatine is NOT "about the same as any other herbal supplement found in energy drinks.", but I agree:
Creatine is completely harmless (there ARE long term studies, it's been in use for decades), *AS LONG* as you keep your water intake high!
I've heard tales & myths about creatine being bad for your kidneys.
IMO - Bullshit!
I only have 1 kidney.
I've taken creating for 6 years, on and off, mostly on.
I make a point of drinking ~1+ Gallon of water a day.
Never ever had kidney issues of any kind, be it due to creatine or high protein intake.

Your son's best bet is to take a *basic* creatine product that contains nothing but creatine.
None of those highly complicated (i.e. worthless) products that have 20 other ingredients.
I don't see any negatives from taking creatine at his age.
Tell your son not to expect miracles from Creatine.
He still needs lots of hard work and dedication to feel any effects.

However. At his age, if he wants to gain more muscle mass and/or strength, his best bet is to EAT MORE

[OSECS]

However. At his age, if he wants to gain more muscle mass and/or strength, his best bet is to EAT MORE

Big ditto. Lots of high protein foods. Fuel muscle creation with food.

[BigDaddyLionfish]

Thanks for the answers! Burnhard, are you supposed to drink a lot of water immediately after taking the Creatine or just throughout the day. Also, when are you supposed to take it (just before the work-out, just after, the night before, etc.)?

[BurnHard]

Water throughout the day to help the body flush excess crap out and to keep fluid levels high.
Not necessary to drink a ton of water right away with the creatine intake. Just throughout the day is fine.

Old school dogma says to "pre-load" at about 10-20g/day for a week. Then go to 5g/day every day for the duration of the cycle.
Don't think the pre-loading is necessary honestly. 5g/day for 2 months is a good cycle for your son to get the feel.

As for timing, old school dogma says take with high-sugar drink immediately after the workout.
From personal experience, I say take half with high-carb meal about 1hour before the workout and other half immediately after workout with protein shake / protein meal.

Agree with OSECS, High protein diet for sure, but don't forget fats & carbs! A healthy well rounded diet is highest priority at your age (at any age, actually) to gain muscle & strength.

Good luck & most importantly, EAT a lot and enjoy working out!

[mavrick]

a proper trainer/workout program will be expensive but will accomplish 10 times more than creatine and protein powder can.

Really? I don't agree. Without protein you aren't going to get very far in getting stronger/bigger. Most people can't eat the amount of protein in a day needed for optimal muscle hypertrophy aka muscle growth so protein supplements fill that gap.

In addition to burnhard's suggestion of taking creatine with a sugary drink, the sugar that works the best is dextrose. The reason being that dextrose spikes insulin levels better than other sugars which is how the creatine makes it into the muscles. I recommend taking creatine with koolade or something like that. If you want to use dextrose as the sugar cool, if not regular sucrose (normail sugar) will work just fine.

Also, creatine doesn't "make you stronger so you can push out extra reps" exactly but it does give you a little more energy to do those workouts, in essence making you stronger. If you want me to go into the ATP -> ADP cycle and how creatine fits I could do that. Otherwise just believe me that it works.

Lastly, if your kid wants to take creatine just make sure he isn't a tool bag carrying around a gallon milk jug filled with water -- those people always annoyed the shit out of me.


Oh yea, tell him to eat more. Thats always a good start as well. And we don't need to see his lifting schedule. Im sure he is in HS playing sports and there are coaches who have lifting programs for the kids to follow.

[XtrPickels]

The potential negative associated with Creatine is a dehydration issue. As people have said, staying well hydrated is important, but its important regardless of creatine intake.

Therefore: Don't worry about his health / safety from the use of Creatine.

If you are interested in further advice, hit me with a PM.
My Master's degree is in exercise physiology and I've taught Olympic Lifting / Speed Agility Quickness and been nationally ranked in 400m hurdles highschool / college.

What purpose is he taking it for? Lifting as an end to itself or lifting for sport improvement?

[BurnHard]

Lastly, if your kid wants to take creatine just make sure he isn't a tool bag carrying around a gallon milk jug filled with water -- those people always annoyed the shit out of me.

I AM one of those tool bags.
Whatcha gonna do about it?

[stevenspass4life]

eat bacon and eggs for breakfast.

then eat steak and eggs for dinner.

Drink lots of milk.

Game over.

All my buddies from high school were taking creatine and shit, and I was just drinking the normal protein shakes and eating high protein food like a mad man. My bench press went up 85lbs my senior year, they weren't quite as lucky.

[Alpine Dreams]

Good thread, wait gainer IMHO.

[flyby]

Really? I don't agree. Without protein you aren't going to get very far in getting stronger/bigger. Most people can't eat the amount of protein in a day needed for optimal muscle hypertrophy aka muscle growth so protein supplements fill that gap.

no one doing exercises with poor form is going to get very far, and if they do they will get to a weight where their shit technique won't support them anymore. see all the people squatting 300 whose knees buckle when they can't finish? weak abductors, which they will need to retrain from a very light weight. proper form will save you a lot of time in the long run and ensures that you will not suffer setbacks from injuries.

also i wasn't saying he should stay away from protein powder, just that the same amount of work goes in with and without supplements. protein powder has helped me a ton with recovering faster so i'm not knocking it, but it doesn't replace a good diet.

Also, creatine doesn't "make you stronger so you can push out extra reps" exactly but it does give you a little more energy to do those workouts, in essence making you stronger. If you want me to go into the ATP -> ADP cycle and how creatine fits I could do that. Otherwise just believe me that it works.

eh. simplistic way of putting it, point being that on creatine you are stronger and off it you are not.

[RootSkier]

I agree with flyby. What is he doing? Bodybuilding is worse than fruitbooting. Buy him a few gallons of milk a week and a copy of Starting Strength.

[DownAmr]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY KIND OF SUPPLEMENTS..... regardless if they have done studies or not.

if he really really insist on taking creatine.... at least have it take it the natural way. Go to the store and stock up on canned Tuna, which is a natural creatine.

[BigDaddyLionfish]

STAY AWAY FROM ANY KIND OF SUPPLEMENTS..... regardless if they have done studies or not.

if he really really insist on taking creatine.... at least have it take it the natural way. Go to the store and stock up on canned Tuna, which is a natural creatine.

How come?

[intheWRONGsummitcounty]

How come?

If you are looking for "natural creatine," have your son eat alot of red meat cooked medium or medium rare (red meat is high in creatine naturally, and cooking the meat to the point of darkening eleminates alot of the creatine into byproducts).

Your son should drink ample amounts of milk following his workout, and in general.

I woulndn't recommend that he has any bacon for breakfast, as the preservatives in bacon are VERY bad for you. Maybe once a week, at most.

And I would echo what alot of previous posters have been saying... proper training will do alot more for a 15 year-old than creatine.

I have no idea of course, but I presume maybe your son is at a place in his training where he is at a standstill with strength gains. If that is the case, then he needs to modify his training program. Doing the same program over time will result in diminished gains. It's really too much to explain on a single post... perhaps you and your son should consult bodybuilding.com's main site articles on training and nutrition, and join their forum for advice on training and supplements (I can promise you they will tell you the same things people have saying here regarding a 15 year old and creatine use).

A last note... If your son's motivation for creatine use is that he thinks he is not "strong enough," whether relative to his peers and/or in the context of sports... that is not really a healthy reason to use a chemical to enhance your muscle's anaerobic capacity artificially. It will be better for him in the long run to understand that self-discipline and hard work are the best recipies for success in anything.

[cramer]

Might want to look up deaths of college and pro athletes deaths related to creatine. Your kid should have a full physical and get a doctor's buy off before taking anything period. Id go as far to have the doctor check out his heart in particular.

[axebiker]

Testing? It's not a drug, so it doesn't get "tested". Take a look at the disclaimers on the packaging. Add to that, most comes from China - I know because I used to import a LOT of it. Take at your own risk. I wouldn't. There's no regulations on it.

[intheWRONGsummitcounty]

Testing? It's not a drug, so it doesn't get "tested". Take a look at the disclaimers on the packaging. Add to that, most comes from China - I know because I used to import a LOT of it. Take at your own risk. I wouldn't. There's no regulations on it.

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\

Axebiker brings up a great point. This can't be emphasized enough. Alot of ingredients in supplements are foreign-produced one way or the other. Some are not.

But regardless... dietary supplements are not regulated. This brings up, first, the issue of quality... how much (or too much) of the listed ingredients are you getting and how pure are they. But this also brings up the second issue of what contaminants might be in the product. And unlike FDA-regulated drugs and USDA-regulated food... there are no long term safety studies (or really any) required for a dietary supplement. Something to think about when you take something... just think about all the problems that have shown up with exhaustively-studied prescription medications.

Ultimately, "at the end of the day," taking supplements may be effective but is certainly not healthy. Not outright saying all of it is unhealthy, but it definitely is not healthy in the long run and big picture.

[OSECS]

Bottom line is this; this is a 15 year old kid. His body is really just going into puberty which increases growth, muscle production bone growth. He really shouldn't be taking any products other than maybe vitamin supplements.

What he should be doing is eating a high calorie, high protein, low/moderate fat diet with complex carbs and lots of fresh steamed veggies, lots of calcium rich foods. His workouts should be varied to shock his body into muscle creation, and should consist of lots of to failure/negative muscle exercises.

[intheWRONGsummitcounty]

Forgot to mention... remind your son he has ALOT of testosterone in his body right now as a 15 year old. With good training and nutrition, this will take care of strength and muscle gains he is looking for... and will for the next ten years.

Also, sleep hasn't been mentioned here yet, but it is extremely important for muscle growth (and at his age bone growth). Getting at least 7 hours per night, 9 ideally, is a must for a teen to maximize his growth potential. I know this can be a problem for some teens for various reasons; don't know if the OP's son's sleep hygiene is good or not. If it's not, run that by him.

[Rubicon]

I have used creatine on and off for ~15 years. It works as advertised, which is to say that it helps increase weight and strength. But it only helps. Far greater factors are things like getting enough sleep, eating right, and having a disciplined progressive work out routine. After all of those things are in place then the creatine will make a subtle difference.

It is a diuretic(I have to take it with food, otherwise I get diarrhea about 12 hours later) so as others have said he need to to make sure to drink plenty of water throughout the day. But he should be doing that anyway.

Something else he can do is take L-Glutamine immediately after a workout. It is an amino acid that will help in muscle recovery. It will do nothing to help him put on weight but he will get stronger. You can get it at walmart or any health food store. I have been using it for a couple of years and I would say that it's effects are more significant than the results of using creatine. But I don't know if that may very from person to person.

Also try a search, this has been discussed a couple of times here.

[intheWRONGsummitcounty]

It is a diuretic(I have to take it with food, otherwise I get diarrhea about 12 hours later) so as others have said he need to to make sure to drink plenty of water throughout the day. But he should be doing that anyway.

Rubicon, creatine is NOT a diuretic... it is the opposite. A diuretic is something that facilitates the excretion of water and electrolytes through the kidneys, in the form of urine. (ok, aka something that makes you pee alot and lose water weight).

It does make some people bloat and get violent intestinal eruptions... umm laxative may be a better word?

(For anyone intent on taking creatine, the Kre-Alkalyn version has less of a bloat/intestinal upset factor than monohydrate... also creatine ethyl ester (abbreviated CEE) has worked for some, and does not cause gastrointestinal distress).


I would assume the kid in question skis, if his dad does??? The ski season is indeed ending here soon (and has for some), so maybe the following doesn't apply... BUT, creatine draws water into the muscle cells and causes them to swell, which makes you gain weight.

Now, I am a huge proponent/fan of weight training for skiing, and strong legs/core. However, during the ski season I really don't think anyone who skis should take creatine. If you must, please keep it to the summer.