Binding Mount Paper Templates

[Boof Head]

Hello All, great thread.
After reading/viewing as much info as i could find here and other forums. i finally mounted a couple of pair of skis. First up, I downloaded the salomon template from here and and mounted some Salomon Z12 bindings on to my daughters new twinnies.Second pair; I mounted some railflex plates to my Volkl Mantras.


Still reading the Salomon manual and playing around with the adjustment on the Z12's at the moment.
Cheers

[grenalds]

Jon - again, thank you. Great resource.

I mounted an FKS and dynafit this weekend with the latest revisions. They're $$.

I still have the same question - which I've seen with jig mounted dynafiddles as well - they don't seem to have the heel piece centered in the middle of the adjustment range. Boot center is perfect, but it seems the heel piece could be moved based on what BSLs the user is potentially adjusting between. Just a heads up for anyone looking to adjust down in the future.

[jondrums]

On my pair of FT12's and dynafit titans, the heelpiece is centered in its track to within 1mm. Check your boot - a lot of boots are mismarked for BSL (gasp!). For example, I have a pair of boots that are marked 330mm, but measure out at 326mm.

[dcpnz]

Great resource here - thanks to all involved!!

Forgive me if I missed discussion of this earlier but I'm prepping for a dynafit mount and with all discussion of BSL (and some potentially being off) I'm triple checking everything.

In the past I've always measured Tele boots BSL in straightline from pin line to back of heel - most don't have stated BSL so nothing to compare to or check against.

But how about with AT boots?
Measuring toe rubber to heel rubber measured with curve around the rockered sole seems to be exactly stated 297mm but a straight line is a fair bit less. Also takes no account of ~12mm that tech toe fittings are back from front of boot.

I expect I'll be doing a test 2x4 mount and my vertical ST's have plenty of adjustment anyway but would be nice to understand what is meant by the stated numbers.

Becomes even more critical if/when i get a pair of low tech lite's which have no heel adjustment. Speaking of which, I believe the low tech lite heel piece is different mounting pattern - anyone got a paper template for those?

[Jonathan S.]

Becomes even more critical if/when i get a pair of low tech lite's which have no heel adjustment.

Other way around: you'll have to mount the toe first, insert the boot, then determine the heel unit mounting holes by aligning the heel unit and/or a template (if one is available?) with the boot heel. (In other words, you do NOT drill both the toe and heel holes before installing the toe unit, so measuring bsl matters only for determining fore/aft position for skiing performance, not for toe<>heel distance.)

[Knut]

I agree on Jonathan's mounting strategy.

And BSL on AT and alpine boots is measured toe edge to heel edge in a straight line.
Most TECH insert boots have the pin line 15mm behind toe edge. Some rare and exotic ones vary on that number, rumors say.

[Jonathan S.]

I still have the same question - which I've seen with jig mounted dynafiddles as well - they don't seem to have the heel piece centered in the middle of the adjustment range.

Some Dynafit jigs use an alpine downhill toe jaw, which is too narrow to allow an AT boot to be snugged up properly against the forward stop. This is easily fixed though by dremmelling out the sides of the toe jaw.
I've also noticed with some boots that the jig length has to be set with the jig on the ski. Otherwise, the length ends up too long. For example, a 287mm DyNA/TLT5 measures out at 287mm on the jig's scale when set on the flat workbench, but when reset on the curved ski topskin, it measures out to 285mm, which mounts the heel exactly in the center of its fore/aft track.
All of this is important though only when mounting Speed bindings, since otherwise being off by a few mm in Vertical with its 26mm track is kind of trivial.

[Jonathan S.]

Most TECH insert boots have the pin line 15mm behind toe edge. Some rare and exotic ones vary on that number, rumors say.

Was this supposed to have been followed by some sort of emoticon?
Anyway, for all the Scarpa Spirit 3/4 boots (and others?) with the additional offset, this just highlights how ideally a Dynafit mechanical jig's toe<>heel length would be set according to toe socket location, with some additional adjustment for fore/aft positioning on the ski.
But once again, important only for the Speed model.

[jondrums]

Most TECH insert boots have the pin line 15mm behind toe edge. Some rare and exotic ones vary on that number, rumors say.

FWIW, I measured several scarpa, garmont, and dynafit boots, and found that the pin is fairly consistently 12mm from the toe edge.

[Shorty_J]

There's a Dynaift template on Wildsnow here, and instructions on how that template is used here.

I used Jondrums template to locate the toes which puts my boot centre in the correct place, but then use the Wildsnow methodology and template to locate the heel. I found this located the heel more accurately for my boot (Dynafit Titan) and my heel piece is near the centre of it's adjustment range rather than having to move toward the front of it's adjustment range to get proper forward pressure/alignment.

[Richie747]

So, I've tried printing these and the Dynafit template on Wildsnow on two different computers and two different printers and I get the exact same printout result that is not to the correct scale.

After looking at all possible print set up options, I can't seem to figure out how to adjust the scale %. Has anyone overcome this printing challenge and willing to share any tips? Thanks!

Hi Zeno,

It took my jong-ass awhile to work it out too. Dont change the zoom %.
For my windows xp, I had to uncheck the "Auto Rotate and Centre" option, which comes up when you click to print the pdf.
I've edited a screen shot with red text to show what I mean. Hope this helps.
Cheers

[Shorty_J]

^^^ Are you sure that changes anything? I've been printing mine with that box checked and scaling selected to "none" and the templates are correctly scaled.

[Richie747]

Well yeah worked for me. I printed about 18 pages between 92.765% and 97.348% zoom settings..
Then I saw that box and unchecked it, then I slapped my forehead, and then I could smell bacon somewhere..

[Shorty_J]

Mmmmm..... bacon.....

[tBatt]

Mounting some Tyrolia Peak 15's using the templates. Just double checked the bindings against the template and the spacing between the two back holes on the heel piece are slightly off. The template has them separated by 4.2mm, measuring the bindings shows they are 4.3mm.

[Mr. Toad]

Just want to add Look PX Racing has the same mounting pattern as the Look PX 15. I'm guessing its the same binding. Thanks again for the great resource.

[dcpnz]

Just reporting another successful mount using paper dynafit template with Vertical ST's and Dynafit TLT5.
Thanks to all involved in producing and checking these templates!!

FWIW the toe template put my boot enter smack on the line but heel piece had to be moved forward a little in adjustment range to get proper spacing. Not a big deal to me as I'm more likely to move to a bigger shell than smaller but if you are looking for absolute precision and a particular heel adjustment position a 2x4 test mount might be advisable.

[JimLad]

Just mounted some fks using the template, first time mounting skis myself. It worked great. Did a couple of tests on a 2x4 before attacking my brand new skis, but it all went without a hitch. Thanks a lot for the template!

[jondrums]

dynafit ST ... heel piece had to be moved forward a little in adjustment range to get proper spacing

When people are reporting this, did you guys first set the heelpost in the exact middle of the track (by going to both ends of the travel, counting the number of screw turns and leaving it halfway?) Bindings are shipped in an undefined position, so just stating that you have to move the heel post forward doesn't mean the template isn't right.

[dcpnz]

When people are reporting this, did you guys first set the heelpost in the exact middle of the track (by going to both ends of the travel, counting the number of screw turns and leaving it halfway?) Bindings are shipped in an undefined position, so just stating that you have to move the heel post forward doesn't mean the template isn't right.

Agreed stating I needed to move forward is moot without starting in center.
However, maybe I coudl have written it much better but I was referrring more to end result rather than actual adjustment required to get there.

My procedure:
I mounted a 297 boot sole with centerline right between 295 and 300 on template (i.e. approx 297.5)
After adjusting heel it is clearly not close to centered in track. Has about 9mm forward movement available and about 16 mm rearward.
Not a problem for me but someone else trying to manage multiple boot shells may be thrown by it.

Hopefully attached image is clear what I'm talking about.

[jondrums]

^^ that's good info! Sounds like the heel post is about 3mm off - ie. the heel should have been mounted 3.5mm further forward.

The only other thing I'd say, is to check the actual BSL of your boot. Every boot is a little different, and it is quite common that the printed BSL on the shell doesn't match the actual BSL by a few mm: nonono2:

The only reason I say this, is because I've verified the template to .5mm accuracy with my boots, for which I have carefully measured the BSL.

The other possibility, is that the various models of D-Fit bindings have slightly different mounting locations. I verified with FT12s.

[Shorty_J]

I started with the heel piece in the middle of it's adjustment range on my tests. I did not accurately measure my bsl before mounting, but I got more than 3mm (which is likely due to innacuracy in my bsl).

[dcpnz]

The only other thing I'd say, is to check the actual BSL of your boot. Every boot is a little different, and it is quite common that the printed BSL on the shell doesn't match the actual BSL by a few mm: nonono2:

The only reason I say this, is because I've verified the template to .5mm accuracy with my boots, for which I have carefully measured the BSL.

That's a good point.

I don't have a good caliper to measure in metric but best estimation is my stated 297 BSL is approx 297 around the curve of the rockered sole.
Could easily be a few mm shorter in a straight line from rubber toe edge to rubber heel edge. I will check in a day or two and report back when I can measure more accurately. This could account for discrepancy.

[dcpnz]

^^ that's good info! Sounds like the heel post is about 3mm off - ie. the heel should have been mounted 3.5mm further forward.

The only other thing I'd say, is to check the actual BSL of your boot. Every boot is a little different, and it is quite common that the printed BSL on the shell doesn't match the actual BSL by a few mm: nonono2:

The only reason I say this, is because I've verified the template to .5mm accuracy with my boots, for which I have carefully measured the BSL.

The other possibility, is that the various models of D-Fit bindings have slightly different mounting locations. I verified with FT12s.

As best as I can measure my actual BSL is 295 or 296 so a mm or two shorter than stated 297.
That's certainly about half or more of reason for me moving 3 - 4 mm forward in track.
The other part that may factor in a mm or two is location of toe sockets - could easily be a mm or so different on various boots.

Bottom line - I reckon Jondrum's templates are awesome and probably spot on; boot variation is probably the issue here but templates are good to go for most users just using stated BSL.
However if you need absolute precision (e.g to allow multiple boot sizes at opposite ends of adjustment range) then pull out some digital calipers and check your boots carefully or do a 2x4 mount.

[butterscotch]

Ok, I need a little help from the collective. I've done 2 practice mounts on a 2 x 4. Everything is going smoothly except the screws just keep turning. They go in just fine, hit bottom, and rather than stopping they just spin.

My drill bit collar is at 9 mm but it's kind of cheesy. Am I drilling too deep? Not deep enough? Is the 2 x 4 just crappy wood? Forearms too strong from years of being single?

(For the record, I'm using a 9/64" bit, which is 0.001" smaller than 3.6 mm, so that should be fine, right?)