Can I make my boots more upright?

[Dromond]

The boots in question are Raichle/Kneissl Flexons.

I've skied these boots (two separate, but nearly identical pairs, with the same liner/footbed) for 5 years now. When I first got them I had them fit by a well know bootfitter who measured my stance and molded my footbeds. The boot has a little shim that fits under the rear cuff that controls how upright the boot can flex. At the time I had the thicker (more forward lean) shim in there and he said that they weren't necessary and put in the more upright shims.

Fast forward 4 years. I get some Garmont Megarides and mod them out with a pair of Flexons tongues that I have. I skied these almost exclusively for most of a season (in the upright position, with dynafits on Coombas.) I go back to my alpine boots on K2 Chiefs with PX12s and they feel angled way too far forward. I gave it a couple days to get used to them again but I feel like to keep my balance my knees are 90% flexed all of the time, not leaving much room for impact absorption, making me tired earlier and generally more awkward and less graceful that on my AT boots . (Wierd, huh?) It's ever hard to float in powder. The fit and shock absorption with the alpine boots is great so I want to get them tweaked so that I can easily switch back and forth.

My older explosives with freerides felt more natural, which is strange since I never liked the way the binding skied before. (it still sucks on anything firm...) I tried taking the spoiler thing behind the calf out of the boot as an experiment, but I still had to lean just as far forward before I felt tongue pressure on my shin and the fit was worse. I took out the shim (that I mentioned first) under the cuff entirely and it seemed to make little difference. Do I try padding the inside of the tongue? It seems like a weird shape to pad. I'm using a wrap style liner.

Thanks in advance for any advice you all might have.

[flyby]

you can try taking out the shim in the back, but this will leave excess room in between the cuff and the tongue because they move independently, so, like you said, the only way to get the same pressure on the tongue is to lean equally far forward. perhaps if you remold the liner without a shim it would help take up some room, or you could try tossing a spacer of some sort (they sell foam at ski shops) in front of the liner but behind the tongue. the freerides have a ramp angle of zero versus a slightly positive ramp angle on the px's, which would have put you leaning even farther forward on the chiefs.

[mntlion]

2 different angles you are dealing with, (and I'm not sure which one you need to make more upright)

is it the inside boot angle (ankle and tibia angle)

or

is it the bindings ramp angle? (whole lower leg, BOTH ankle and tibia, being pushed too far forward)

[Dromond]

2 different angles you are dealing with, (and I'm not sure which one you need to make more upright)

is it the inside boot angle (ankle and tibia angle)

or

is it the bindings ramp angle? (whole lower leg, BOTH ankle and tibia, being pushed too far forward)

I'm not sure, either. wonder if there is any way to figure this out other than going to a bootfitter. Changing either seems to make some sort of positive difference. The flat freerides allow me to keep better balance, at least in powder; and the more upright AT boots let me flex the ski without flexing my boots so much that my knees feel like they are going to touch the tips of my skis. I have the stiffest ("pro stiff") FT tongue and I only weigh 160lbs and am not unusually strong.

[mntlion]

for making the binding flatter, add toe shims, or remove heel shims untill you get what feels right. Also planing a boot down, and adding a toe shim (gas pedal) might help.

for the boot, where on the back of your leg is it pushing you forward? at the boot top? at the solius muscle (sp) about 4-8" from boot top, or at the narrow point just above your heel?

Most bootfitters will not be able to tell you what part you need changed, as we can't see you ski, and can't feel what you are feeling. This is not a pressure point, with a big red spot. once you tell us what is wrong we can fix it, but we can't do the feeling for you.

[Dromond]

for making the binding flatter, add toe shims, or remove heel shims untill you get what feels right. Also planing a boot down, and adding a toe shim (gas pedal) might help.

for the boot, where on the back of your leg is it pushing you forward? at the boot top? at the solius muscle (sp) about 4-8" from boot top, or at the narrow point just above your heel?

Most bootfitters will not be able to tell you what part you need changed, as we can't see you ski, and can't feel what you are feeling. This is not a pressure point, with a big red spot. once you tell us what is wrong we can fix it, but we can't do the feeling for you.

That sounds like good advice. I think that I need to do some experimentation to get this right. My PX12s are mounted with the lifter removed so perhaps adding just the toe lifter would be a good way to test out the ramp angle change. I'll also take some measurements to compare my AT and alpine setups.

The boot pushes pretty evenly all along my leg from the heel up to the calf. When I removed the shim it just added space along the back side of the top 1/2 of the leg. Maybe I could try shimming/padding the inside of the tongue before I replace the spoiler to experiment with changing the forward lean of the boot itself.

cheers!

[XXX-er]

I used a toe shim on an alpine binding to decrease forward lean with alpine boots

the kicker was my boot fitting/ski tech buddy told me I had so much forward lean my ass stuck out when I stood in my boots

standing in yer kitchen try a stack of magazines under your toes to see if it feel better

[Dromond]

I used a toe shim on an alpine binding to decrease forward lean with alpine boots

the kicker was my boot fitting/ski tech buddy told me I had so much forward lean my ass stuck out when I stood in my boots

standing in yer kitchen try a stack of magazines under your toes to see if it feel better

I'm just adding this in case anyone finds this in a search:

I finally got around to adding a shim under the toe of my binding. It made the ramp angle just over flat. i.e. the toe was 1mm higher than the heel. It worked like a charm and over the last two days that I skied the setup it took much less effort to float, turn, absorb impacts and generally stay balanced. What an improvement. At least as long as I have these boots, I'll be flattening the ramp angle on my alpine bindings with shims.

So thanks again for the advice a year later.

[XXX-er]

I'm just adding this in case anyone finds this in a search:

I finally got around to adding a shim under the toe of my binding. It made the ramp angle just over flat. i.e. the toe was 1mm higher than the heel. It worked like a charm and over the last two days that I skied the setup it took much less effort to float, turn, absorb impacts and generally stay balanced. What an improvement. At least as long as I have these boots, I'll be flattening the ramp angle on my alpine bindings with shims.

So thanks again for the advice a year later.

I think what we did is actually called changing the delta ,ramp is the froward lean angle of the boot

If you think about it the 2 are different ,your ankle will be at a lesser angle with just a shim under the toe than with actualy changing the boots angle but the most important thing is you will be more upright so it is similar enough to work

huge thanks to buddy Sieba ... now in pemberton last I heard

[Dromond]

I think what we did is actually called changing the delta ,ramp is the froward lean angle of the boot

If you think about it the 2 are different ,your ankle will be at a lesser angle with just a shim under the toe than with actually changing the boots angle but the most important thing is you will be more upright so it is similar enough to work

huge thanks to buddy Sieba ... now in pemberton last I heard

You're right. Delta. My mistake. I think if you need an extreme correction to your ram angle that changing the delta might not work as well. But at least in my case where the change was only 6mm the fix was immediate and I think definitive.

[Duffman]

The other trick that can be done with the Look/Rossi PX series bindings is to mount the toe with the included lifter, but the heel flat on the ski. Makes a completely flat delta angle. With both lifters, or neither lifter, the delta is approx 8mm higher at the heel.

[Dromond]

The other trick that can be done with the Look/Rossi PX series bindings is to mount the toe with the included lifter, but the heel flat on the ski. Makes a completely flat delta angle. With both lifters, or neither lifter, the delta is approx 8mm higher at the heel.

Interesting. I considered doing that, but by my measurements that would have set my toe 4.5mm higher than the heel. It is just over flat with a 6.5mm shim and the included toe lifter was 10mm.

[Wild4umlauts]

The lifters on Look PX series net out at 6mm of height increase. It may look like 10mm when you measure them alone, but the toe and heel pieces sit down in them when mounted. Removal of just the heel lifter results in a 0mm delta (flat).

[Dromond]

The lifters on Look PX series net out at 6mm of height increase. It may look like 10mm when you measure them alone, but the toe and heel pieces sit down in them when mounted. Removal of just the heel lifter results in a 0mm delta (flat).

That's useful. Perhaps I measured incorrectly.