Who skis without a footbed in their boots?

[Bruce Springskiin]

Hmm, been standing in front of the mirror on various footbeds. I thought I needed arch support, now I'm starting to think that what I actually need is the 'canting' effect that is a side effect of arch supports.

ie Arch support makes the medial side of the footbed higher than the lateral side, which shifts the way the knee tracks, and has a similar effect to canting the boot soles.

A lot of boots have a canting adjustment in the hinge of the upper boot cuff. Your footbed should not be setting you up to fail as far as canting goes. If it does you should balance that out.

[Ocean]

A lot of boots have a canting adjustment in the hinge of the upper boot cuff.

By 'canting' I meant planing the boot sole. Careful, the terminology nazis might show up here now Gaperski Forum is no more.

[auvgeek]

Hmm, been standing in front of the mirror on various footbeds. I thought I needed arch support, now I'm starting to think that what I actually need is the 'canting' effect that is a side effect of arch supports.

ie Arch support makes the medial side of the footbed higher than the lateral side, which shifts the way the knee tracks, and has a similar effect to canting the boot soles.

If you pronate, especially in the rear foot, you might see substantial benefit from footbeds. If you don't, you might get away with just canting. Personally, I need both, but, of the two, the footbed/orthotic is far more important.

[XXX-er]

A lot of boots have a canting adjustment in the hinge of the upper boot cuff. Your footbed should not be setting you up to fail as far as canting goes. If it does you should balance that out.

I don't think it cuff cant does the same thing as a foot bed or grinding the boot sole (never ground boot soles)

I used to crank the cuff cant all the way to deal with flatfeet/knock knee but when I got new boots the only thing that fit me was Vulcans that had no cuff cant

but foot beds seemed to take care of my issues, cuff cant is usually only on the outside hinge of a boot but I also have some dalbellos with cuff cant on both hinges ... i leave them neutral

[tuco]

Hmm, been standing in front of the mirror on various footbeds. I thought I needed arch support, now I'm starting to think that what I actually need is the 'canting' effect that is a side effect of arch supports.

ie Arch support makes the medial side of the footbed higher than the lateral side, which shifts the way the knee tracks, and has a similar effect to canting the boot soles.

Custom footbeds. They do far more than arch support. They are made to set your stance neutral.
Grinding will result in a non DIN sole and more liability than most shops would probably want to deal with!

[auvgeek]

Custom footbeds. They do far more than arch support. They are made to set your stance neutral.
Grinding will result in a non DIN sole and more liability than most shops would probably want to deal with!

Huh? I'm pretty sure planing/canting a boot still ends up with a DIN sole if done correctly.

[gregL]

Grinding will result in a non DIN sole and more liability than most shops would probably want to deal with!

If you plane a boot sole to correct stance you normally bring it back to ISO/DIN spec before it goes out the door - toe height 19mm plus or minus 1mm, heel height 30mm plus or minus 1mm, and top and bottom surfaces parallel. You do this by adding material and/or routing the surfaces that contact the binding. The same applies to adding Cantology or SVST shims. Many true race boots come with a thicker, non-ISO sole assuming you will do this.

[tuco]

Huh? I'm pretty sure planing/canting a boot still ends up with a DIN sole if done correctly.

If done correctly still seems pretty sketch to me. Still gonna have to find a specialty shop to do it. Last resort option IMO. Grind 1 side then build up the other--no thanks!

If you plane a boot sole to correct stance you normally bring it back to ISO/DIN spec before it goes out the door - toe height 19mm plus or minus 1mm, heel height 30mm plus or minus 1mm, and top and bottom surfaces parallel. You do this by adding material and/or routing the surfaces that contact the binding. The same applies to adding Cantology or SVST shims. Many true race boots come with a thicker, non-ISO sole assuming you will do this.

Yeah you are talking hightly specialized equipment and its more than likely he's got some pretty regular boots
May as well just get Daleboots, unless your true competitive racing, the only place I could see it being worth it!!

[XavierD]

I'm confused as to who is building footbeds that take up more volume than the stock foam insoles in your boots.

Superfeet are built around the concept of stabilizing your heel. Supefeet corks are a thing of the past. Unless your foot is hypermobile or the cork is underbuilt you will generally have a harsher skiing experience. The footbed will limit your foot's ability to absorb energy and balance your weight. They can limit your ability to flex at the able if they don't make way for your mid foot in the flex process.

When building a footbed it's important to consider how the entire system functions. The boot, liner, footbed, foot and lower leg. These all need to work together to provide the correct amount of support, movement/ balance, and cushion or dampening to fit your individual needs. A rigid foot will require far less support than a hypermobile one. That said, they still generally benefit from an appropriate footbed to help distribute pressure, improve circulation, and add some shock absorbtion. your hypermobile foot will require more aggressive support to help it not collapse under the pressures associated with skiing. These same footbeds would likely be painful for someone with a similar shaped but very rigid foot.

[auvgeek]

^^Well said.

The two people I know (brother and gf now wife) who had partially weighted cork/ultra-rigid footbeds made ended up really disliked them and ditching them. One has a rigid foot and one is hypermobile. YMMV and all that, but too rigid definitely seems to be an issue.

[tuco]

I figured they were a thing of the past because nobody sells them. I found my black pair on a rack when my brother was having some work done on his boots here in town. Pretty much the last one on the rack-- hence the $50 bones. Fact is they work the tits for me! The That's part of the trick to this is finding what works for you. Heel stabilization is definitely my biggest benefit. That being said, I've never tried the newer customs beds and I have no doubt that they are a better alternative

[RShea]

I'm confused as to who is building footbeds that take up more volume than the stock foam insoles in your boots.

Superfeet are built around the concept of stabilizing your heel. Supefeet corks are a thing of the past. Unless your foot is hypermobile or the cork is underbuilt you will generally have a harsher skiing experience. The footbed will limit your foot's ability to absorb energy and balance your weight. They can limit your ability to flex at the able if they don't make way for your mid foot in the flex process.

When building a footbed it's important to consider how the entire system functions. The boot, liner, footbed, foot and lower leg. These all need to work together to provide the correct amount of support, movement/ balance, and cushion or dampening to fit your individual needs. A rigid foot will require far less support than a hypermobile one. That said, they still generally benefit from an appropriate footbed to help distribute pressure, improve circulation, and add some shock absorbtion. your hypermobile foot will require more aggressive support to help it not collapse under the pressures associated with skiing. These same footbeds would likely be painful for someone with a similar shaped but very rigid foot.

Custom insoles can be any thickness or have a platform effect- from really thin like the stock insoles to thicker build up of the material. I have a pair of insoles (Amfit rubber type material) that have basically a bit of heal lift to them. When first made, I was in a bigger boot and the foot area also was thicker than stock footbeds. But as I downsized and got more performance fit in boots since then the toe area has been cut way down so they are pretty much very little material around the ball of the foot and the toe area.

[whyturn]

I skied intuition PW in full tilt Seth for the last 5-7 years. Could not get footbed in due to top of foot shape. Well last pair packed out so I added Aline footbed under liner. Took 5 days to settle in and like that. So it can be done and worked well for me. I think it's arch shape and requires a good liner.

[moose pit]

I have to take the foot boards out of my boots (BD Customs and Factors). My high arch just can't accommodate the extra volume that the stock boards add under foot. As for the foot beds they are a must as they provide support, and help form a solid heel pocket arch combo. the local ski shop does custom thermal ones that are great.

[tuco]

^^^Did you mean your"high 'instep' cant accommodate the extra volume"?
I can't attest to the Factors, but I owned Customs for about 3 or 4 not even half days of skiing! Those fukkers CRUSHED my instep, regardless of what I tried!

[moose pit]

^^^Did you mean your"high 'instep' cant accommodate the extra volume"?
I can't attest to the Factors, but I owned Customs for about 3 or 4 not even half days of skiing! Those fukkers CRUSHED my instep, regardless of what I tried!

Nah, my high instep requires extra volume... I also have a wide foot and narrow heel so I am a little fucked for boots. I pulled the foot boards and run intuitions with the thin sole foot bed in my customs and they are cushy. With the foot board they are brutal. I even skip lace my work boots to open up the instep.

[east or bust]

Old but somewhat fitting bump.

A fellow mag was able to help me out and grab some old 75mm boots from his local shop. They are T1s from maybe sometime around 2010-2013.

Anyway, they don’t have foot beds and think they’d fit a bit better with some volume taken up under my foot.

My stupid question is, does anyone make tele specific insoles so the flex of the boot isn’t altered? Is that even an issue?

[XXX-er]

its only telemark so try any foot bed, Surefoot or Sole should work fine there is a pretty flexible foam under the forefoot

[fleaches]

Could grab some of the Intuition foam soles too, but wouldn't have any arch support or anything.

Sent from my Pixel XL using TGR Forums mobile app

[RootSkier]

Crazy bump. 12 years later, about 30 pounds heavier and in way worse shape, I got custom-molded footbeds for the first time ever a few weeks ago and I am LOT happier now. But all that proves to me is that things change.

[XXX-er]

Time to recite the Possum lodge oath

I'm a man, but I can change, If I have to, I guess.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

A couple years ago some rep a Kintec foot labs up here in Vancouver suggested I try these funky 3/4 length Birkenstock footbeds for skiing. They were cheap at only about $55 CAD so thought why not.

They are rigid. took me a while to get used to them and not cramp in ski boots with them but now I love them. Insane arch support. Stop behind the met heads (but huge met head support to that point). Assorted lengths and widths and cheap. They are only 1.5mm thick under the heel so ramp should be a non issue or easily adjusted to.

These may work well for a telemarker seeing as how there is nothing under the met heads. Not sure if the ridge where they ended might be an issue but seeing as how they also work so well in flexible everyday shoes I would assume they'd be awesome for tele boots.

And to anyone who still wants to run a footbed but doesn't have toe box room, I cannot recommend these enough. They are pretty aggressive (arch and support behind the met heads) so do take some getting used to. And they're cheap.

[Core Shot]

Time to recite the Possum lodge oath

I'm a man, but I can change, If I have to, I guess.

Red Green. Lol.

But yeah, most folks that deny footbeds don’t realize how much they pronate without them.

Can’t wait fir my boys feet to slow growing so they can feel the joy.

[Core Shot]

Nah, my high instep requires extra volume... I also have a wide foot and narrow heel so I am a little fucked for boots. I pulled the foot boards and run intuitions with the thin sole foot bed in my customs and they are cushy. With the foot board they are brutal. I even skip lace my work boots to open up the instep.

High instep and intuition are the suck.
The only decent intuition for high instep are the ones with thin bottoms. Forget the name, but look at the thickness on their charts. The original ones are too thick above and below.
Don’t buy one piece. Sewn bottoms is key. Thinner foam below

[Djongo Unchained]

I had the red plastic topped Petersons molded in 1990. They lasted until 2006 when i got some of the black supafeet ones... Still on the black.

Intuition power wrap plug model has the sewn sole and thin foam liner.
I have some used ones in a 28 I'd sell...Lack of sole thickness turned me off.