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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Hugh's Mom's House
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    11,829

    Who skis without a footbed in their boots?

    Am I high? Drunk? (don't answer either of those, asshole).

    But anyways, after years of dealing with horrific arch pain, different insoles, boot fitters, ibuprofen, lortab, etc, I was at an impasse. Someone, somewhere, whose name has already faded into history (like Cleopatra), advised that I should just remove the footbed altogether. This genius also recommended that I get some flat insole material to take up the volume. $4.95 and 10 minutes with a utility knife later, I was in business (insole material underneath the liner).

    From that day forward, after a half day or so of adjustment time, I am a changed man and a happier skier.

    Is this mental? Did I just not spend enough at a custom bootfitter? Is it my foot shape? Or is this just The Way. Do our feet really need crazy custom insoles or can most of our feet adapt towards a more neutral footbed as the gods designed?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Fernie, BC
    Posts
    174
    No, I had a horrible time with my boots at the beginning of the season. I took the insoles out and just rode the liners w/o them for the first month of the season. Once my feet got used to my boots and in better condition I would throw them back in there. At the beginning I could only have my insoles in there for part of the day but I am back up to insoles for most days.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Ft Collins, CO
    Posts
    489
    I run more or less stock insoles.... and I worked in shops for years. Most insoles rolled my foot to the outside too much for the bone spur like issues (very outer side/ball of my feet). I even had those surgically reduced, but too much arch lift (and roll) and I can still hurt like a bitch!

    I am a believer in good insoles for what they do for most people. I just don't have most people's feet. I have taken steps to reduce the volume elsewhere that normally, insoles would have helped with.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Whistler, BC
    Posts
    1,325
    i had custom insoles molded while i worked in a ski shop a few years ago. they were molded by the UK rep for the insole company in question, so there is no doubt that he knew what he was doing.

    2 runs later....... took them out in loads of pain. slipped the 'un-sportive and cheep' stock insoles in and rode the boots for 2 seasons. have just got new boots and slipped the same stock insoles back in the new boots!
    Quote Originally Posted by Angry Whelk View Post
    a more stupid motherfuck does not exist.
    Big Balls is worst asshat kind.
    kind that wear bukkake from above.
    with warm drown he gurgles final death, for one time not worried about his misplaced import known of african american social standing and prominent community members. for he is only drown, as is the way.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    The dry side of WA
    Posts
    884
    If you have a thermoformable liner like a g fit or intuition they will mold right to your foot and they work best this way for me but I'm sure that someone here can tell me why thats all wrong and there is no way that I could ever ski like that.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    on the edge
    Posts
    5,803
    Intuitions w/out footbed=$$$
    If it's green, smoke it...if it's pink, poke it

    BUY THESE------> 193 iM 103 - $50 https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=179797

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mendon, VT
    Posts
    75
    my boot is a 30 'wide-fit', the boot tech said i have banana feet. i also needed heel lifts and was recommended a custom insole for next season but I'm not so sure. I still lack enough lift in the heel. i wonder how going w/o an insole would feel.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Banff
    Posts
    20,272
    most people find footbeds more comfortable, It also might be that the placement of the arch support, in the off the rack footbed was not in the right spot for you. Maybe something more custom might be better?

    or if nothing works for you, great.


  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Whitefish
    Posts
    4,527
    I have also played with many a footbed setup. I worked as a boorfitter last year and was constantly taught the value of footbeds. We made superfeet custom corks for our customers who often told us how all their foot pain was gone now that they had proper footbeds.

    But my clubbed feet did not like them. Problems galore when I would put them in my boots. I tried all different kinds with never a good result.

    So I took them out. I used the soft crappy ones that came with the boots and no more problems with foot pain. Totally comfortable albeit a tiny bit more sloppy.

    Footbeds are NOT for my feet.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    where the beer flows like wine
    Posts
    2,383
    i have custom footbeds and like them, but boots have never really been a problem for me. my wife had superfeet with intuition liners. feet still hurt, so she took them out and didn't replace them with anything. she happy now.
    Big skis from small companies at Backcountry Freeskier

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    not where the most snow was last night...
    Posts
    384
    When I first got my BD factors I could only do one run and had to take the boots off, waaay to tight. So I took out the foot beds and ended up skiing w/o them for 6 days or so. After the boots packed out a bit I put them back in and nice snug fit again. To your point, I didnt have any issues skiing without them in. Felt fine.
    When seconds count...ski patrol, SAR or the cops are only minutes away...

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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,981
    all that proves is the foot beds you had/have don't work for you

    I got flat feet ,I need them ,there are 3 customs and a couple of stock soles kicking around here

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Whistler
    Posts
    2,064
    Quote Originally Posted by bedoe View Post
    If you have a thermoformable liner like a g fit or intuition they will mold right to your foot and they work best this way for me but I'm sure that someone here can tell me why thats all wrong and there is no way that I could ever ski like that.
    I'm here to tell you .. heh. Just a quick correction: G-Fit liners do not mold on the bottom. The bottom is made out of a stiffer foam designed to stay flat.

    Intuition liners will mold the bottom. However, they will not increase volume under the arch to give arch support and thus correct pronation. Point being, if you pronate, and don't have arch support, your ankles will painfully collapse into the side of the boot.

    For almost everyone I would recommend footbeds of some sort, but I'd start with the cheapest. I wear orthotics in shoes (one leg be 1.5cm shorter than the other; on pavement, this needs correction) but in ski boots I only wear Superfeet. In my touring boots I have no footbeds (Intuitions) but this is more because I cannot fit them in (not enough volume in my Radiums; the footbeds raise my feet too high and destroy my toes).

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Central VT
    Posts
    4,026
    that's odd, I skied with out footbeds on a really tight pair of boots I had last season and I felt like I was all over the place. It was like night and day when I put them back in.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Bozeangeles/Lonetree
    Posts
    283
    Pretty sure I've read where seth morrison goes bedless. That was pre full tilt so who knows now

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    140
    Resurrected this thread as it fits with what I'm thinking about at present.

    My boots fit better without footbeds (even slim ones) but I need arch support. I'm thinking about ditching my footbeds and sewing an arch cookie into my liners. Anybody else done this?

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    17,981
    What I do is I take a red Sole footbed (which is the thinest) cuz my feet like the soles and I grind off all the grey foam under the toes which leaves just the neoprene top

    So I am taking all the foam off the bottom JUST at the front of the foot bed where my toes will go

    or you could try cutting the front off your foot bed at an angle making it into a 3/4 length foot bed

    I only use pwr wraps which are the only liner my feet will tolerate
    Last edited by XXX-er; 08-01-2017 at 09:38 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    YetiMan
    Posts
    10,766
    This year I'm planning on trying the intuition with no insole gameplan.
    This thread makes me optimistic.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Den/Baltimore
    Posts
    5,129
    My custom footbeds are paper thin under the toes (basically everywhere forward of the moulded arch). They're thin enough that my toes can hang off the end without me noticing. Not saying everyone will have my experience, but I can't understand needing arch support but not putting a footbed in.

    Further, I think the majority of people who have issues with footbeds simply don't wear them enough for the foot to adapt and then they blame the footbed. When you first get them made, try wearing them in your street shoes starting for an hour a day and progressing to all day most days before ski season. It's like transitioning to barefoot (minimalist) running—you'll get injured if you just start running in minimalist shoes one day.

    Again, not saying footbeds are for everyone. Sounds like there are many in this thread who did everything right but they just prefer a flatter support. And FWIW (since it was somewhat mentioned above), I'm all for minimalist/barefoot shoes, but I can't live without footbeds in my ski boots. Controlling a hard plastic shell and the movement of skiing is very different than running.
    "Alpine rock and steep, deep powder are what I seek, and I will always find solace there." - Bean Bowers

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  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
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    If you need a foot bed you need a foot bed and if you don't you are very lucky,

    it doesnt matter who skis without a foot bed it only matters what you need

    I really do wish I could fit into virtualy any brand of size 27 boot but thats just not the case

    Instead I fit in only the odd brand of small shells and if I find that shell i will still require the talents of the Intuition factory boot fitter ...i am a special flower
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Gaperville, CO
    Posts
    3,742
    Some people need footbeds. Lots of really good skiers.

    Some people don't. Including really good skiers like Bode Miller.

    Just depends.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    74
    The correct answer is "people who don't need footbeds".

    If it works for you, and you're not having arch pain or heel pain that can result from plantar fasciitis then go for it. I get both arch and heel pain if I ski too many days on anything without high arch support.

    I know a couple people with high insteps who pull out their footbeds to make more volume to prevent instep pain / pressure.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    3,154
    If you experience pain or cramping UNDER your foot with a new footbed, either it doesn't fit or you are not used to it and need more time to acclimate.

    If you insert a new footbed and you experience pain over your instep or general tightness around the midfoot, it's because you've reduced the volume by switching from the stock insole. If it's a new boot, there's a good chance you can ski with the stock insoles for 6-8 days then use the new footbeds after the liner packs out. If not, and you want to use the footbeds, you will have to find a boot with more volume or a taller instep.

    Bode Miller is a special case - he wants to be able to roll onto his downhill edge very gradually without pressuring the edge too hard (he also blows out the shell in the medial midfoot). He kills it on a downhill course, but after watching his Bomber Skis video I don't think I want to freeski like him.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    voting in seattle
    Posts
    4,036
    Each foot is different and will respnd best to different levels of support and weight distribution. What matters is the boot fitter works with the skier to ensure their foot is stable and comfortable in the boot. Given the rigidity of a ski boot very few skiers will respond well to having their foot 'corrected' in the ski boot.

    I make my footbeds fully weighted to attempt to collapse my arch as much as possible and add minimal rigidity to create a softer springy support. This would completely fail to stabilize many feet, and could roll a lot of skiers off balance.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    4,420
    Any recommendations for how to find a good custom footbed?

    I tried the green Superfeet liners and the experience was very painful on the top of my foot especially. Nice skinning up, horrible skiing down.

    I'm in green TLT6Ps that are probably 1 shell size big (28.0, I really am more of a 27.5 / US 9-9.5 in most things) but they're just slightly long, not really loose in any other way. Anyway not TOO bad but closer to 2 fingers in the heel than 1. It hasn't given me problems in probably 150 days touring in them without footbeds, but I sometimes would like a slightly snugger fit. I also am running the stock liners, unmolded.

    Maybe it's just "buy new boots" time but I would give a custom footbed a try, just no idea how one goes about doing such a thing. Also maybe just a higher volume Intuition + a good bake will be sufficient.

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