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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
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    drivin da magic ski bus
    Posts
    125
    IMHA an integrated backpack that is both an ava-lung, and air bag would be ideal.................. in an ideal world.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by IrieRon View Post

    Any chance of combining an airbag pack with an avalung this decade? Or next?


    I think this is what is best/what most people would want.

    I like the design of the snowpulse packs better than the ABS packs, with the airbag covering/protecting your head/neck/shoulders.

    Something like the snowpulse pack combined with an avalung would be PRIMO.

    I would never buy a vest.

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marlboro, VT
    Posts
    180
    do not have it stay inflated could cause issues with rescue.
    or maybe you already considered this.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Marlboro, VT
    Posts
    180
    also would never wear a vest

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    539
    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    since you brought it up;
    why then dont you publish this data, perhaps in the form of a paper, and submit it to the recognized bodies, which will then, open this up to an academic discussion. the information i have seen does not comfirm this.
    Why are you being such a fucking asshole? Someone's trying to do some good and all you can do is whine like a little bitch.

    From a few years back - wasn't that hard to find.

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=47095

    ABS systems in yurp have proven results. A competing product would be good. http://www.abssystem.com/
    Last edited by Bullet; 03-09-2009 at 04:04 PM.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,911
    Here's an idea: for shovel blade carry, PLEASE PLEASE set it up so the shovel curves *away* from your body. I don't like the idea that when I fall on my back, the shovel blade cuts my spine in half -- like it does on every single pack made today. Have a dedicated shovel pocket with a small hole in the bottom for the handle tube to stick out of. It'll take up a lot less room inside that way, too.

    I'm sweating buckets just looking at that vest. It's basically a backpack already...why not just ditch the front pockets and replace them with pack straps and a waist belt? It's not like jackets don't already have front pockets...

    I'm already seeing half a diagonal ski carry at bottom right on the back...just add another at top left.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tahoe
    Posts
    896
    Quote Originally Posted by pechelman View Post
    my problem with the air bag is that it works much like a PFD in a river

    Umm...


    What the hell are you talking about?

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    the -ski country
    Posts
    18
    This is bullshit...I have been in an avalanche class 2 and it was already difficult to grab to anything like rock. If you talk about monster avalanch like this it would smash trees and squize you against rocks like oranges for juice.

    Vest is something additional you have to wear. you need the backpack anyway so why complicate things?

    I have recently been in Verbier and seen a similar to ABS system developed locally. the only difference is that it blows around you head for additional protection. seems cool



    edit, to elaborate and continue this analogy
    you have gone for a swim in a river wearing a pfd
    you are just upstream of a very large waterfall
    do you continue going for a swim with the current hoping youll be ok, or do you fight like hell to get to the sides of the river or grab onto a rock or something?[/QUOTE]

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    The whole idea of a protective air bag around your head in an avalanche has one flaw; that these air bags only have 3 or 4 pounds per square inch of pressure in them, so any blunt force trauma strong enough to kill someone is going to deflect or burst the airbag. These aren’t automobile airbags that can stand huge forces, they are much thinner and at much lower pressure so any tree or rock that is going to kill you is going to destroy the air bag and offer the user no protection.

    What the air bags do is lift you up inside the avalanche, keeping you above some rocks and trees, and preventing you from being dragged along the surface of the mountain. Air bags also pull the victim to the side or flank of the avalanche where the snow slows more rapidly as the avalanche dies, so an air bag user is going to hit those rocks and trees at a slower speed than someone without an airbag out in the middle and front of the slide.

    We like that shovel placement idea Spats, but would the handle receptacle sticking out of the bottom snag on anything or be noticeable to the user in any bad way? We also agree with your comments on the ski carry.

    As far as deflating the air bag for recovery of the victim, we have found that it is much easier to dig out a victim with the air bag inflated than it is when the air bag is deflated. Here’s why: The air bag is quite large and usually ends up over the victim’s head. So the air bag is displacing quite a bit of snow that would otherwise be on top of the victim’s head. The air bag is very light as opposed to the mass of snow that it replaces, so the victim will have that much less crushing weight on top of them. We also found that the inflated air bag is rigid enough that is a guide for your shovel. We were able to guide and slide our shovels down the slippery sides of the air bag with great ease, noticeably speeding up the shoveling time.

    The problem that we are having with incorporating an Avalung into the vest is that it would jack up the price too much. We think many people do not use air bag technology because it costs around a thousand dollars, so our aim is a system that costs ˝ that much, around $500.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    the -ski country
    Posts
    18
    sorry I did not explained myself very clearly. the idea of the airbag being blown around your head is not to protect you from rocks etc. The idea behind it is to keep your head up and also to help you to form an air pocket when you cannot use you hands to do it. some people using an ABS where found with the airbag up the snow and facing down. if you are unconcious this does not allow you to breathe. on the other hand the airbag around your head makes your lower body sink in the moving snow and put it at risk...
    so it depends how much you like your balls

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    the -ski country
    Posts
    18
    oh...and if it costs only 500$ vs. 1000$ it will perhaps be a reason why for people to wear an additional and unconvenient piece of clothe
    but really guys - make a trendy jacket out of it. do not duplicate staff we need to wear and carry

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    the -ski country
    Posts
    18
    one more thing - I now remind vaguely a guy wearing such a vest last April in Valdez skiing with VHSG. Was that one of your prototypes? because that thing looked quite cool...

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Tahoe
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    896
    Quote Originally Posted by WARI avalanche research institute View Post
    The whole idea of a protective air bag around your head in an avalanche has one flaw; that these air bags only have 3 or 4 pounds per square inch of pressure in them, so any blunt force trauma strong enough to kill someone is going to deflect or burst the airbag. These aren’t automobile airbags that can stand huge forces, they are much thinner and at much lower pressure so any tree or rock that is going to kill you is going to destroy the air bag and offer the user no protection.
    Obviously you have done some research, but I would disagree.

    I think you could easily be in a slow moving (or fast moving) avalanche and crack your head and neck on rocks or trees fast enough to cause major damage and still have a chance at the airbag NOT bursting, especially if they aren't super sharp rocks. PLUS, even if the impact DID burst the bag, you would still have the initial impact protection. And, if you think the bag will burst on rocks anyway, why not have it around your head?

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    We think it's a REALLY bad idea to have the air bag anywhere near your head. An air bag around your head takes away all of your side vision, prevents you from being able to look back over your shoulders, and takes away your ability to hear anything. In other words it prevents you from being able to continue to properly ski, snowboard or snowmobile out of the avalanche.

    As far as body position goes, when we do our testing we watch the air bags and the dummies skim along the tops of the avalanches all the way down the hill. Only at the bottom of the mountain, when the avalanche begins to slow down, does the person wearing the air bag begin to become buried. Again, if you are kicking and struggling at this point we believe you will shed the snow and keep yourself from becoming buried. In our opinion, having an air bag attached to your back or your head makes no difference as far as body positioning goes.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,911
    Quote Originally Posted by WARI avalanche research institute View Post
    We like that shovel placement idea Spats, but would the handle receptacle sticking out of the bottom snag on anything or be noticeable to the user in any bad way?
    Plenty of packs have external shovel handle carry, and what about ice axes? I think people can leave the blade right side up and turned inward if the aesthetics offend them or they're worried about snags

    Quote Originally Posted by WARI avalanche research institute View Post
    We also agree with your comments on the ski carry.
    Great! Ski carry is useful even for the smallest capacity packs...booting is at least as common in sidecountry as it is on longer tours.

    I understand the theory with a vest: it helps balance weight between the front and the back instead of hanging it all off the back. The thing is that for BC skiing (vs. sledding), you NEED to let people vent. This means that both the front of the vest and the pit zips need a substantial gap in order to allow venting.

    Also, for BC skiers the vest needs to SUBSTITUTE for a pack, i.e. carry all the BC necessities, because vest+pack is a no go. If your vest could carry beacon/shovel/probe/skis/water/snacks *plus* have a way to strap on or otherwise carry your extra layer, you might be able to sell some.

    But frankly, I think the extra weight is going to make this a tough sell for purely human-powered BC skiing no matter what you do, and focusing on sledding and heli ops is probably the right way to start.

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    ......

    Here's the mesh on the sides for venting................






  17. #67
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Bouldenver, Colorado
    Posts
    3,636
    WARI, I just want to give you and the crew mad props for investing your time, energy, and money in an effort to make my life better.

    If I'm in MN again anytime soon, I'll buy the beers.
    Thrutchworthy Production Services

  18. #68
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    Here is the rip cord pull ball mechanism. We are going with a red/green go/no go type of indicator.......


  19. #69
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    First 200 about ready to roll...............








  20. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    ..................







  21. #71
    gunit130 Guest

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by WARI avalanche research institute View Post
    ..................




    Where are these made, China?

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    1,136
    Quote Originally Posted by WARI avalanche research institute View Post

    Any comments?






    Yeah, I've got one - Holy fuck what happened to that guy's face? Will your vest do this to my face?

    Seriously though, I like what you guys are trying to do, but you're not going to get many ski tourers to wear a vest for the reasons stated above - too hot, not enough room for stuff.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Lakeville, Minnesota
    Posts
    328
    China? No, Minnesota, just south of Minneapolis.

    The first batch of Avi-Vests are going out now. We are getting them to a bunch of our friends in the mountains, but without the air bag flotation system. Ok, this sounds crazy, why do it? Because we want to find out how the vest works for skiers, boarders and ‘bilers while we create the air bag systems here in the shop (machine parts, assemble parts, test parts, etc).

    This will allow us to check on pockets, zipper placements, shoulder comfort, breathability, do some more drop testing and check on other key elements before we build the next major production order.

    As some of you may know there was a major product recall in the avalanche air bag industry this past winter, so we want to be very careful and not rush our vests into the mountains before they are ready.

    There’s an Avi-Vest in Alaska right now, and several more going out within days so we should start to get feedback immediately.

    Thanks again everyone for your comments.

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1
    Hi friends
    Really the Avi-Vest is looking amazing also very stylish.
    Traffic Vest

  25. #75
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    2

    Answers - My answers to your questions

    Vest or Pack??? What would really be the difference, if there's lot of stuff in a vest, how is it different from a bakpack really?

    RIPCORD in the center of your chest, this is a much easier, more natural spot to be able to grab when tumbling, and, it would be reacheable with EITHER HAND!

    How about posting a photo of YOUR AIRBAG INFLATED!

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