Intuition liners

**robnow** · 11-16-2018, 01:21 PM

Plug Race vs Pro Tongue...or put another way, LV vs MV, how do you decide? Really my question is, how much can the MV compress?

I'm in a 27.5 Dalbello Lupo 130C (98 last)
- 1 cm max for length
- punched in all the usual spots (toe, metas)
- in the stock liner with custom footbeds, for tour days I use 1 Bontex, for resort days I use 2 (so theres a bit too much instep height. The stock liner has something like a 2mm Strobel sole.
- I've reached out to Intuition with the above info (not below) and they suggest LV, however I feel like they're only going on length assumptions (and as per website instruction) and the below information has me second guessing.

I've never used Intuition but want to try because the price is right and the accolades given. I'll keep using the stock to tour but want a more responsive (denser) resort liner and maintain using the custom footbeds (Conformables). I've been able to try in the shop:

- Pro Tour MV - new, unmolded, no footbed
- it was SNUG all around and lengthwise, like maybe a 3/5 for pressure? It was tight but I could hang out in it for the 20 minutes I had it on.

- Dreamliner LV - a friends baked (for him) liner, with my footbed
- if anything it was JUST slightly loose (width)? What I don't think I liked is the thinness of the upper cuff but might some of that be mitigated by the plastic of the Plug Race?

What would most closely resemble the stock liner for fit?

I would say I'm leaning to ordering the Pro Tongue (MV) and hoping it will compress enough, especially in length (definitely want a roomy toe box).

**Stewy30** · 11-20-2018, 03:11 PM

My impression of the Pro tongue:

Very very stiff at the cuff, and particularly thick behind the calf and down to the ankle. If you have chicken legs, that should help a lot, but I found it almost too thick behind the ankle

Toe box: I find that the neoprene material around the toe box doesn’t compress very much. I honestly can’t remember how much length I gained on the liner, not very much I don’t think, and it’s partly because of the thickness of the cuff down toward the ankle from my observation

Instep: a lot of padding on the instep, the tongue is still thick there, and the sides overlap over the top. That should help you out. I ended up chopping off the overlapping sides.

It took a good 3 bakes to get that liner compressed enough for me, but I had a tight shell fit (not just length) in the first place. If it’s a 27.5 I’d definitely order the 28.

Hope this helps.

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**el hefe** · 11-20-2018, 03:13 PM

I am sure it has been mentioned but I don't want to go through 25 pages. Best way to reheat liners for a remold? Oven or hair dryer? I have one fat ankle after breaking mine this year.

**kid-kapow** · 11-20-2018, 03:14 PM

thanks! I had been wondering the same thing

what kind of foot beds do you guys use in your pro tongues?

**BCMtnHound** · 11-20-2018, 03:17 PM

Oven for me. Bring to 200f, turn off, one liner at a time for 10min then onto the foot and into the shell. No issues so far, with 2 such bakes on one set of pwr wraps.

**swissiphic** · 11-20-2018, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by el hefe

I am sure it has been mentioned but I don't want to go through 25 pages. Best way to reheat liners for a remold? Oven or hair dryer? I have one fat ankle after breaking mine this year.

Bought a convection oven on sale at crappy tire and lived happily ever after doing bakes and rebakes.

One learning curve error was forgetting to buy an oven thermometer and relying on the temp numbers on the oven... totally over baked and melted one liner of two in the first round of rebakes. Continued with the full mold process anyway and can't really tell the difference while skiing so that was a bit of a 'whew'.

Can't remember exact temp right now but i think Intuition said 240-250 F for 10 minutes for my Luxury H.V. liners...pretty sure bake time varies depending on thickness of foam and how much mold you want from the molding. I like to get em really puffy and gooey for a max mold.

I've tried the hot air stack method, home hair dryer and convection oven. I prefer the convection oven for the fact that you get a more featured mold of the outside of liner that matches the boot shell mo betta. Hot air gun works great for touch ups/spot molding after the fact.

Bought some Intuition toe caps and found them essential to ensure adequate toebox volume and resist the lengthwise liner shrinking that remolds sometimes result in. Modified them to be higher volume to really carve out a large volume toe box and extra room for the forefoot metatarsal spread.

**XXX-er** · 11-20-2018, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by el hefe

I am sure it has been mentioned but I don't want to go through 25 pages. Best way to reheat liners for a remold? Oven or hair dryer? I have one fat ankle after breaking mine this year.

at Intuition in Vangroovy they would heat a spot with the gun and then rub that spot with something like the end of a large screwdriver

**XXX-er** · 11-20-2018, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by kid-kapow

thanks! I had been wondering the same thing

what kind of foot beds do you guys use in your pro tongues?

the question would be what kind of foot bed works good for YOU ? I'm a SOLE.com kind of guy but you maybe different

**summit** · 11-20-2018, 06:43 PM

I've had two Intuition pro tours where the nylon webbing that makes the eyelet for the laces has been cut with a heat cutter leaving hard and thick ends which sit one on the other and are then stitched in over the malleolus causing me intense pressure point over my right medial malleolus. I have to use a scalpel to do liner surgery to get it out without badly damaging the liner (still takes out some stitching.

**markcjr** · 11-20-2018, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by robnow

Plug Race vs Pro Tongue...or put another way, LV vs MV, how do you decide? Really my question is, how much can the MV compress?

I'm in a 27.5 Dalbello Lupo 130C (98 last)
- 1 cm max for length
- punched in all the usual spots (toe, metas)
- in the stock liner with custom footbeds, for tour days I use 1 Bontex, for resort days I use 2 (so theres a bit too much instep height. The stock liner has something like a 2mm Strobel sole.
- I've reached out to Intuition with the above info (not below) and they suggest LV, however I feel like they're only going on length assumptions (and as per website instruction) and the below information has me second guessing.

I've never used Intuition but want to try because the price is right and the accolades given. I'll keep using the stock to tour but want a more responsive (denser) resort liner and maintain using the custom footbeds (Conformables). I've been able to try in the shop:

- Pro Tour MV - new, unmolded, no footbed
- it was SNUG all around and lengthwise, like maybe a 3/5 for pressure? It was tight but I could hang out in it for the 20 minutes I had it on.

- Dreamliner LV - a friends baked (for him) liner, with my footbed
- if anything it was JUST slightly loose (width)? What I don't think I liked is the thinness of the upper cuff but might some of that be mitigated by the plastic of the Plug Race?

What would most closely resemble the stock liner for fit?

I would say I'm leaning to ordering the Pro Tongue (MV) and hoping it will compress enough, especially in length (definitely want a roomy toe box).

I'm at 28.5 in the same boot and I went 29 in a luxury MV
For same reasons as you describe with bondex. Happy with purchase. Has 9 mm sole

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**kid-kapow** · 11-21-2018, 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

the question would be what kind of foot bed works good for YOU ? I'm a SOLE.com kind of guy but you maybe different

yeah - that is true

Thanks for the tip.

It's been a few months since i did anything with the liners, and seem to remember that there was some kind of foam footbed in them stock. Cannot recall - will check as i planned on using them as resort liners for my Hawx' if i can compress them enough / not destroy the shell fitment for their current occupant - pro tours.

**XXX-er** · 11-21-2018, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Summit

I've had two Intuition pro tours where the nylon webbing that makes the eyelet for the laces has been cut with a heat cutter leaving hard and thick ends which sit one on the other and are then stitched in over the malleolus causing me intense pressure point over my right medial malleolus. I have to use a scalpel to do liner surgery to get it out without badly damaging the liner (still takes out some stitching.

do you have a high instep ?

I do so IME I can't use ANY liner ( including Intuition ) with a tongue becuz it digs into the top of my foot, I tried pro tours and exchanged them for the power wraps

**summit** · 11-21-2018, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by XXX-er

do you have a high instep ?

I do so IME I can't use ANY liner ( including Intuition ) with a tongue becuz it digs into the top of my foot, I tried pro tours and exchanged them for the power wraps

Medium/high instep and I use insoles to cover my medium arches with pushes the instep up. I might need a c-pad or a donut on my medial malleolus?

Wrap is probably better for me instep-wise, but works less well in a touring boot with a large ROM.

OK Intuition experts:
Power Wrap vs
Pro Wrap vs
Tour Wrap?

I want to add insoles to my alpine boots (Fischer Ranger 120) and stiffen them up. Kinda sounds like I'm better off with a Pro Wrap vs a Power in my alpine boots at least (thinner sole to allow for the insole and higher instep).

Tour Wrap looks like it might not stiffen up over a stock 50/50 AT liner (eg what comes in a Technica ZG Tour Pro).

**XXX-er** · 11-21-2018, 11:35 AM

I use 40$ yoursole.com footbeds cuz I have flat feet and thats what they are really good for

orange ID pwraps in my Dalbello alpines
regular pwrwraps in my Vulcans
raichle pwraps in some old T-1's

I think there isn't much point in using a liner with great ROM if it hurts the top of yer foot

so for me main thing is no laces or tongue to hurt the top of my foot

**Quadzilla** · 11-21-2018, 11:49 AM

OK, just got a pair of Tour Wraps to go in my Vulcans. I have tried several liners in these boots to get the right blend of power and tourability. Stock power Wraps ski down great and powerful but way stiff for climbing. Pro tours have that wad of material where the tongues can be replaced and created a irritation for me as well as other fit problems with the tongues themselves. Anyway, for me no way these Tour Wraps can be skied to fit, arches and heel not even close. So, had them molded by a shop. Fit came out great so that was a relief. As far as the way they feel as compared. First, overall the liner is softer and more cushy than the others and by a large margin over the Power Wraps. The forefoot is roomier with lots of toe room and the ankle and lower leg is snug. So, for me these will be a great touring liner but not as stiff and powerful as the others. Not necessarily a bad thing as Vulcans have a stiff shell............

**gaijin** · 12-05-2018, 02:32 AM

Currently on the fence between Pro Wrap or Pro Tongue for my Lange RS 130s. This is a resort boot that I love but the liner is showing some age. Would like to up-cycle the shell. I have zero experience with Intuition, but it's calling me. I'll likely use my existing footbeds.

I also use a Booster strap, ski mainly Japanese forest japow on Renegades and arc groomers when the snow is old. I like stiff, tight, and responsive.

Anyone?

**uglymoney** · 12-05-2018, 07:58 AM

The pro tongue is a "beast". Quote from skiing-in-jackson when he baked mine for my 120 cochise. They fixed the 120 issue and then some. Worked out for me...I get a 100 mm boot that is stiff enough and fits and my sweaty toes are always warm. Ymmv. Depends on how much stiff you want.

Also to follow up based on posts below I love the tongues. I can ride wraps with no pain but they never give me a good tight fit. High calves and narrow lower legs. Ymmv.

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**Andyski** · 12-05-2018, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Quadzilla

OK, just got a pair of Tour Wraps to go in my Vulcans. I have tried several liners in these boots to get the right blend of power and tourability. Stock power Wraps ski down great and powerful but way stiff for climbing. Pro tours have that wad of material where the tongues can be replaced and created a irritation for me as well as other fit problems with the tongues themselves. Anyway, for me no way these Tour Wraps can be skied to fit, arches and heel not even close. So, had them molded by a shop. Fit came out great so that was a relief. As far as the way they feel as compared. First, overall the liner is softer and more cushy than the others and by a large margin over the Power Wraps. The forefoot is roomier with lots of toe room and the ankle and lower leg is snug. So, for me these will be a great touring liner but not as stiff and powerful as the others. Not necessarily a bad thing as Vulcans have a stiff shell............

Very close to making the same decision with the same boot. I fucking hate tongue liners for the same reasons you do. Any interference/pressure spots from the lacing system on the tour wraps? That’s the only hang up for me with these as the Vulcans are plenty stiff. Might just put a new pair of Alpine liners in them instead...

**iriponsnow** · 12-05-2018, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by gaijin

Currently on the fence between Pro Wrap or Pro Tongue for my Lange RS 130s. This is a resort boot that I love but the liner is showing some age. Would like to up-cycle the shell. I have zero experience with Intuition, but it's calling me. I'll likely use my existing footbeds.

I also use a Booster strap, ski mainly Japanese forest japow on Renegades and arc groomers when the snow is old. I like stiff, tight, and responsive.

Anyone?

FWIW, I find the wraps work better in 3 piece shells & the tongues work better in overlaps.

**2FUNKY** · 12-05-2018, 09:00 PM

I hated my pro tongues. Just couldn’t get them to not cut circulation off. My toes froze in them. Didn’t feel like they added much, if at all, stiffness. The upper cuff didn’t feel solid in my Atomic Hawx 130. Just couldn’t not get them to feel right in the boot.
Now my pro wraps, FKNA! Stiffened the boot just a touch, snug everywhere, toes don’t feel like they want to freeze off. Really improved the performance of the boot.

**gaijin** · 01-01-2019, 04:54 AM

l went with Pro Tongues in my Langue RS 130s.

Surprisingly stiffer liner, and far more shell-filling. One rice-sock cook and I think they could be cooked again, properly, with an oven. I have a convection oven and am severely tempted.

But I'm just a weekend warrior/dentist and am wondering if I should just ski them in. They don't hurt, but definitely feel like new boots minus the comfort zone of new factory (read-- plush) liners.

They ski rad. I forget to buckle my toes at the top. (Yes. I unbuckle on the chair because they're tight.)

Bottom line-- way stiffer than I anticipated. That's not a bad thing. Fit is THICK. Ski them or bake them? They ski fine. The reason I consider baking is because I can't imagine them packing out so far that they'd suck. That's a lot of travel.

**CaliBrit** · 01-01-2019, 07:31 AM

If you’re happy leave em. I’d always do the oven though.

**gaijin** · 01-03-2019, 05:09 AM

Couldn't leave them. Had to bake them. Did so in my convection oven at 110 celsius.

What an improvement.

Two things--
1-- Very tight, stiff, and I don't know if this translates to more responsive over new boots... but definitely a good up-cycle of old shells.

2-- I'm not convinced Pro Tongues are warmer than my 5yo Lange liners with my limited experience.

Request-- Intuition needs an internal foam layer that is different from the formation/fitting foam. Something to take up the slack after the formation for 90% of the time I'm not skiing. Perhaps that's just a thicker sock.

**margotron** · 01-03-2019, 08:38 AM

I've had as much success with rice cook as oven. They're damn near floppy with rice if done correctly

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**margotron** · 01-03-2019, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by gaijin

Couldn't leave them. Had to bake them. Did so in my convection oven at 110 celsius.

What an improvement.

Two things--
1-- Very tight, stiff, and I don't know if this translates to more responsive over new boots... but definitely a good up-cycle of old shells.

2-- I'm not convinced Pro Tongues are warmer than my 5yo Lange liners with my limited experience.

Request-- Intuition needs an internal foam layer that is different from the formation/fitting foam. Something to take up the slack after the formation for 90% of the time I'm not skiing. Perhaps that's just a thicker sock.

I hope they don't add that foam. I like them exactly as they are. No plushness, just precision

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