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  1. #726
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    103
    Quote Originally Posted by counterfeitfake View Post
    I saw GregL who was very helpful and knowledgeable. He agreed these boots are probably about the best option for me, but if I understood him correctly, he doesn't have strong feelings about aftermarket liners, as he goes through boots fast enough he never uses any. We're still chatting about options, but I thought I'd try to tap into the knowledge of everybody else here too.

    I don't think I could have the toe of a 27.5 punched out enough to tour in. My alpine boots are a 27.5 Krypton. They work great as long as the liner is really tight everywhere and I'm in a skiing stance. I tried a pair of Lupos, using the same power wrap liner, which fit and ski the same. Unfortunately if I put it in walk mode and stand up straight, my big toe mashes against the front of the boot. I had a minor toe punch done on those boots and it wasn't enough. Also, using the stock thin liners causes the same problem, makes my foot free to move forward.

    I'd also be interested in playing around with spoilers, does anybody know any that are available aftermarket? The Tecnicas came with a weird little velcro wedge that I don't really know what to do with.
    I’m almost in the same boat - low volume ankles and narrow feet. I ski in kryptons in 24.
    I tried to use salomon MTN lab in 25 but that didn’t work - touring was good, skiing was somewhat acceptable, but not the level I used to.
    Long story short - now I have Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD in 24.5 for touring (they almost felt the same as Tecnica Zero G on foot) and Intuition Tour Wrap 25 (boot fitter chose such size, while intuition still recommends to size down for that liner)
    And it’s awesome. I used it on 2week trip as a crossover boot and hadn’t had any problems skiing it inbounds. I tried my krypton wrap liners inside of atomic shell - I won’t make such mistake in future) it could be ok for skiing, but I would feel miserable after tour in them. And I can’t even fit my foot wearing smartwool light inside my kryptons, while I have no problems of doing same with atomics.
    What I’m trying to say - if you can try tecnica downsized - try it with stock liner. And talk to a boot fitter about that path - 27.5 shell +28 tour wrap liner.

    My experience so far - heel hold is on level with kryptons, toes have much more room to wiggle inside a boot, I don’t have black nails after touring. I use 24.5 shell (shell fit is less than 15mm) and Tour wrap 25. Also I use them with sidas custom footbeds. And when I using the thinnest socks - I add nordica heel retainers. I haven’t experienced any blisters yet)

  2. #727
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Not Brooklyn
    Posts
    7,193
    Liners in my 26.5-27 F1s are just about dead. Anyone know if a 26 or 27 Pro Tour is a better fit?

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  3. #728
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    230
    Anyone have any tips for molding Intuition liners in Maestrale/Gea boots? I have done the oven method many times but can't imagine getting the liner back into one of these boots when it is soft. Rice method also not really working--pretty small boots and the rice sock just won't sink past the cuff and into the clog no matter how much I smack it around. Turkey bags and boiling water my only option?

  4. #729
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    2,067
    Quote Originally Posted by fleaches View Post
    Anyone have any tips for molding Intuition liners in Maestrale/Gea boots? I have done the oven method many times but can't imagine getting the liner back into one of these boots when it is soft. Rice method also not really working--pretty small boots and the rice sock just won't sink past the cuff and into the clog no matter how much I smack it around. Turkey bags and boiling water my only option?
    You do put the heated liner on your foot then all in the boot right?

  5. #730
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    230
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    You do put the heated liner on your foot then all in the boot right?
    Yeah, and have never been able to get the liner in boot while on my foot in these boots so have been reluctant to try the oven. Even tried to practice with some silicone grease but no luck.

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  6. #731
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SLC
    Posts
    88
    Quote Originally Posted by fleaches View Post
    Anyone have any tips for molding Intuition liners in Maestrale/Gea boots? I have done the oven method many times but can't imagine getting the liner back into one of these boots when it is soft. Rice method also not really working--pretty small boots and the rice sock just won't sink past the cuff and into the clog no matter how much I smack it around. Turkey bags and boiling water my only option?
    I just took it out of the oven and rapidly shoved it I. The shell and then hustled my foot in and buckled it up. Only did one foot at a time. If it is the 2.0 and on walk mode and the cuff tilted all the way back it is easy in and easy on or at least it was for me.

  7. #732
    Join Date
    Sep 2019
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    230
    Found I was able to get the oven method (liner on foot, then in boot) to work after removing the bolts that hold the plastic boot tongue on. I also found it was easier to get foot + liner in while in ski mode, with a little silicone lube. Hope that helps somebody.

  8. #733
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    141
    Quote Originally Posted by SeatownSlackey View Post
    Question for those in the know.

    How much length stretch upon baking is reasonable to expect?

    Ordered Mrs. Slackey a pair of HV Dreamliners off ebay. Size 26.0 for her 26.5 Tecnica Cochise 110s. Trying on the liners only and her big toe is pushing out the end by 2-3MM and they "feel" too short to her.

    They have the traditional ultralon soles not the fixed stroble kind so if i bake her with a double toe cap she'll be hating the mold but will i get enough room created? or do I need to find a 27?

    Never had this issue myself as the HD race, protours, and pro waps have all fit my foot length well. Here's a pic of side by side with her stock 26.5 liners.
    Attachment 352431
    Noticeable length difference.
    It should stretch enough if it's a new liner. Definitely use toe caps which will be very uncomfortable, and don't overbake. If you overbake, they shrink and then can't be stretched back. You could also try just heat gunning the toe area to get length if they feel good otherwise.

  9. #734
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    S-E-A-T-O-W-N
    Posts
    1,684
    Taking into account what I've read here, and what I'm trying to accomplish, I got a Power Wrap 29 to try and squeeze into my 28.5 Tecnica Zero Gs. Without baking yet, dry run, it took about 3 tries for me to get it to sit in the shell with no big wrinkles at the heel. It does take up a lot more room than the stock liner, I was able to slip my foot in with a lot of effort, and also get the top buckles done up with significant effort.

    I've baked at home before, but am a little apprehensive about trying to squeeze such a tight fit with a floppy hot liner. Can anyone advise whether it'll be easier than with the cold liner? Advice?
    that's all i can think of, but i'm sure there's something else...

  10. #735
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    northern BC
    Posts
    22,605
    YOU DO need 2 people

    I 've heard putting the liner in a big palstic bag before trying to get it in the boot might help with getting it in ?

    this does not mean baking the liner in the bag BTW

    I'm a chicken so for buying/baking I paid Tom at intuition, it was 50 $ but it was worth it for a perfect job

    edit: I went back to see Tom on a layover from Niseko expecting to drop more coin on a new pair pwrwraps and he said I didnt need them just a rebake cuz i was swapping between a mercury to Vulcan shell. I been in that liner since 2012 so amortising the $$$ cost over 7 years it was worth paying for the best
    Last edited by XXX-er; 01-08-2021 at 01:22 PM.
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  11. #736
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Calgary
    Posts
    226
    I'm a fan of using the oven over the rice bag or hot air blower. With the oven you get the inside and outside of the liner molded to your foot and to the boot shell. For the oven method its worth finding an knowledgeable set of hands to help you get the boots opened up and liners>footbed>feet inserted into the boots quickly so they go in correctly aligned and not mashed funny. IMHO worth paying for getting it done correctly with someone who has done it successfully many times before.

  12. #737
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kilpisjärvi, Finland
    Posts
    860
    I did my tour wraps in sauna. Heated it to 80c. Liner in there as long it was nice and soft, but not too mushy. Very easy job and probably impossible to over heat if you check them often enough. Very good result and so easy.

    Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

  13. #738
    Join Date
    Jan 2021
    Location
    JACKSON
    Posts
    7
    Quote Originally Posted by Ville View Post
    I did my tour wraps in sauna. Heated it to 80c. Liner in there as long it was nice and soft, but not too mushy. Very easy job and probably impossible to over heat if you check them often enough. Very good result and so easy.

    Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
    so finnish. love it

  14. #739
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    2,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Ville View Post
    I did my tour wraps in sauna. Heated it to 80c. Liner in there as long it was nice and soft, but not too mushy. Very easy job and probably impossible to over heat if you check them often enough. Very good result and so easy.

    Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla
    Naked I hope

  15. #740
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Golden
    Posts
    353
    Tips for getting a liner into tight or awkward boots:

    Don’t bake the liner so it is hot and floppy. That is too hot. If I think I am going to have any issues getting the foot and liner in the boot, I have been heating the liner up on a heat stack so it is just the inside of the liner getting the bulk of the heat. This accomplished a few things. It keeps the outside of the liner a little stiffer and less likely to snag and it gets the inside quite warm without over cooking the entire liner. Less likely to shrink, snag, or wrinkle. There will be enough heat in the system to mold the outside of the liner. In 15 minutes of trying on a cold Dreamliner liner in a dobermann, all the hardware and ankle shape was moulded into the outside of the liner.

    Use a boot spreader if you have access to one. If not, have someone spread the lower shell for you.

    Dry fit the liner to see where the tough angles are and determine the method you will put them on from there. Liner on foot vs liner in boot. If needed, use bags to create less friction, either on the liner or on your foot.

    If you have a really tight shell fit, use a minimal toe cap to get the bulk of the molding done. After molding, heat the toe with a heat gun and resold with a bigger toe cap to get more toe room. Don’t try and squeeze too much in at once.

  16. #741
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    8
    Hi all,

    I am looking to getting either Luxury or Pro Tour liners for my Technica Zero G Tour Pros..

    I historically was super interested in the Pro Tours but noticed almost all guides that I had a pleasure skiing with in BC last year were running Luxury liners despite having to skin a lot.

    I'm a big, aggressive skier, but do no jumps / major drops and my skiing in these boots is 98% backcountry touring and so I was initially interested in the Pro Tours..

    A) Any reason why the Luxury liner would be a better choice?
    B) Anything else I should consider?
    C) Anyone has experience / feedback on running either in a Zero G Tour Pro?

    Thank you!

  17. #742
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    4,134
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenBC View Post
    Tips for getting a liner into tight or awkward boots:

    Don’t bake the liner so it is hot and floppy. That is too hot. If I think I am going to have any issues getting the foot and liner in the boot, I have been heating the liner up on a heat stack so it is just the inside of the liner getting the bulk of the heat. This accomplished a few things. It keeps the outside of the liner a little stiffer and less likely to snag and it gets the inside quite warm without over cooking the entire liner. Less likely to shrink, snag, or wrinkle. There will be enough heat in the system to mold the outside of the liner. In 15 minutes of trying on a cold Dreamliner liner in a dobermann, all the hardware and ankle shape was moulded into the outside of the liner.

    Use a boot spreader if you have access to one. If not, have someone spread the lower shell for you.

    Dry fit the liner to see where the tough angles are and determine the method you will put them on from there. Liner on foot vs liner in boot. If needed, use bags to create less friction, either on the liner or on your foot.

    If you have a really tight shell fit, use a minimal toe cap to get the bulk of the molding done. After molding, heat the toe with a heat gun and resold with a bigger toe cap to get more toe room. Don’t try and squeeze too much in at once.
    Really good points, GoldenBC.

    I'd add a couple. If you're putting a wrap in a 2-piece shell, it helps to heat the shell for 4-5 minutes (especially if you are doing this without a helper).

    To me, a "tight" shellfit for medium or high volume Intuitions is 12-15mm. This used to mean taping the footbed to the foot, putting the liner on the foot, and using a plastic bag and/or silicone spray to make sure you get the liner in without distortion, all a pain in the ass.

    Lately I've taken to using the Alpine Boot Horn (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and the results have been excellent. Just put the footbed in the hot liner, put liner in boot, and the boot horn keeps the heel from dragging the liner down and wrinkling it. You do need to pull the tongue (if there is one) up, and I have the customer put all their weight on the foot being inserted and lean forward so I can reef on the back of the cuff before buckling . . .

  18. #743
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    4,134
    Quote Originally Posted by tonyp View Post
    I historically was super interested in the Pro Tours but noticed almost all guides that I had a pleasure skiing with in BC last year were running Luxury liners despite having to skin a lot.
    They are in much better shape than their clients, and are usually shuffling along at about 1/3 their capacity, so a little more comfort, a little more weight, and a little less cuff mobility is a worthwhile tradeoff.

  19. #744
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    西 雅 圖
    Posts
    4,134
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Naked I hope
    Did you pour a liter of vodka over the rocks and breathe deeply?

  20. #745
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    4,777

    Intuition liners

    I’ve toured a lot in Luxury liners but also the plug wrap and old Alpine and power wrap. Luxury is to me more supportive and comfortable than the pro tour liner, but less cuff mobility as GregL said. They are in between the Pro Tour and the super stiff pro/plug wrap type liners IMO.

  21. #746
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    8
    I've been wandering around in stock liners for 3 years now and never had problems with mobility, but I am definitely looking for comfort.. do you guys think ROM in Luxury might be similar to the Stock Liner? Thanks!

  22. #747
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Kilpisjärvi, Finland
    Posts
    860
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Did you pour a liter of vodka over the rocks and breathe deeply?
    Haha, been there done that, but that's not the best way to get stuff done with good results

    Lähetetty minun LYA-L29 laitteesta Tapatalkilla

  23. #748
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    NCW
    Posts
    3,128
    Looking for some fit advice for my wife. She measures 24.5-25 (w's 8.5 shoe), but has a very low volume foot, so we moved her into a 23.5 Lange xt90lv. The toe box had to be punched for length and height to get just enough room for her toes. She has footbed heaters, a 1/4" foam laminated to the boot board and 5mm neoprene laminated to the tongue, plus a pair of ankle pads on both feet. The ankle pads keep her heel in place, but also cause additional pressure that she's not stoked about.

    Would a Dreamliner HV or Luxury HV be adequate or overkill to take up the excess space around the foot and lock the heel down without causing excess pressure points? Sizing is odd in this case because her fit is certainly a "performance" fit in terms of length. Intuition says to round down on the Dreamliner and round-up on the Luxury.

    I'll try to get a scan of her foot tonight with gregL's new foot scan app, maybe that will help diagnose the issues we're having.

  24. #749
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    SEA>DEN>Spokanistan
    Posts
    1,802

    Intuition liners

    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    Looking for some fit advice for my wife. She measures 24.5-25 (w's 8.5 shoe), but has a very low volume foot, so we moved her into a 23.5 Lange xt90lv. The toe box had to be punched for length and height to get just enough room for her toes. She has footbed heaters, a 1/4" foam laminated to the boot board and 5mm neoprene laminated to the tongue, plus a pair of ankle pads on both feet. The ankle pads keep her heel in place, but also cause additional pressure that she's not stoked about.

    Would a Dreamliner HV or Luxury HV be adequate or overkill to take up the excess space around the foot and lock the heel down without causing excess pressure points? Sizing is odd in this case because her fit is certainly a "performance" fit in terms of length. Intuition says to round down on the Dreamliner and round-up on the Luxury.

    I'll try to get a scan of her foot tonight with gregL's new foot scan app, maybe that will help diagnose the issues we're having.
    Not sure if this helps but have a pair of brand new Dreamliner MV in a 25.0 from the group buy last year. Seem a bit too big, but figured I’d offer.

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    Last edited by SkiLyft; 01-27-2021 at 02:42 PM.

  25. #750
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Down In A Hole, Up in the Sky
    Posts
    29,380
    How much are the group buy pairs going for?
    I have a brand new, never cooked pair of powerwrap liners in a 24, I want to be sure I am pricing them fairly.
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