Results 76 to 93 of 93
Thread: Inbounds: Recco vs Beacon?
-
01-08-2009, 06:39 PM #76
Thanks for chiming in Dale.
I do have to challenge you a bit on number two of your first post. Those of us accustomed to wearing beacons would be very challenged to forget to turn it on, as the switch on many beacons is part of the webbing carry system, and it is part of every pre-flight.
However, that is a very very minor point, and overall you've presented some great reasons to utilize the Recco system. Thanks again.Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.
Patterson Hood of the DBT's
-
01-08-2009, 06:42 PM #77
Tye, you'd be surprised. Lots of BB folks dont turn theirs on until ready to hike. so you really could find someone with a beacon in their pack (and maybe even the pack at a lift, not on their back) with a beacon in the pocket.
I think the new slushmans lift is changing that somewhat (you have to beep to board) but its an old habit for some of those folks."They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Ben Franklin
-
01-08-2009, 06:57 PM #78
-
01-08-2009, 07:04 PM #79
Ive seen a dog locate and alert on two beacons faster then the dogs handler could find them using a beacon.
With practice all three take about the same amount of time to find a single burial. But I guarantee 99% of the time in an inbound event a beacon is gonna be on scene first. Dog and recco arrival time depends on travel conditions to the site, at squaw they are both going to come from the same location (in most situations).
In addition to being on scene first, the beacon is also the most accurate. Recco can reflect signals off a number of other things. Skis, cellphones, buried metal pipes. Basically anything that can reflect a radar signal. Dogs usually go to the strongest odor, but they can also alert on skis, torn of backpacks, lost gloves and so on. Each alert requires probeing by the handler, possibly wasting time on an article rather then the victim. A beacon will with very, very few exceptions only alert to another beacon.
Hope your kidding about the yellow jacket...Last edited by karma; 01-08-2009 at 07:12 PM.
If things seem in control, Your just not going fast enough.
-
01-08-2009, 07:07 PM #80
I suspect a lot has to do with how quickly the handler moves the dog through the search area. At the Mammoth slide the dog worked over the derbies field pretty thoroughly, and even can up with a buried beanie from one of the people caught in the slide. By this time patrol was reasonably sure no one was buried, so I think they did a slower more thorough search, but it took a lot longer then the beacon or Recco searches.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
-
01-08-2009, 09:36 PM #81
The “Group Buy” is very much a possibility, we are in the research of available inventory of different models phase.
For my immediate purpose for the kids, the Pieps Freeride looks good and for a reasonable price but inventory may be an issue. (I think Bridger Bowl has bought a lot up)
BCA Tracker, BCA Tracker 2 & Pieps DSP are being looked into along with the Pieps Freeride.
I should have more info tomorrow.
Concussed,
If you need one soon I suggest pulling the trigger but if you can wait about 3-5 weeks for delivery, it may be worth it.
I will keep info posted.Last edited by mtsprings; 01-08-2009 at 11:34 PM.
-
01-09-2009, 08:02 AM #82
Great info from Dale both here and in some PM's. Along with added comments from our peanut gallery. The recco are a very solid back up to our transcievers. They will certainly stay on my boots.
Last edited by H-man; 01-09-2009 at 08:14 AM. Reason: spelling.... yet again
Fresh Tracks are the ultimate graffitti.
Schmear
Set forth the pattern to succeed.
Sam Kavanagh
Friends of Tuckerman Ravine
-
01-09-2009, 11:33 AM #83
Thanks Dale. I know you guys spent a lot of time researching and did a lot of field testing to find a frequency that has good snow penetration, and it's not surprising that it falls within the spectrum of cell phones. It's good to hear that recco is on a discrete freq.
-
01-13-2009, 09:50 PM #84
I now have info on the beacon “Group Buy”
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=147417
Shoot me a PM and I will get you the details
-
01-14-2009, 01:19 PM #85
nobodies answered the question:
Say a first responder has a beacon plus a reflector and is doing a beacon search, patrol shows up with detector, does first responder then have to leave the scene to prevent interference?
I remember someone in the JH avie thread saying that patrol was stopping people from helping because they had recco on.
Anyone have an answerFor sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was
-
01-14-2009, 02:56 PM #86
I don't think there is an absolute answer. At Mammoth it was not an issue, and JH it appears it was. The Recco detector is very directional since it picks up reflections, and does not work on flux lines like beacons, so once some one with Recco is accounted for the search can just keep searching. It must be easier to search an area with people with Recco on, hence why patrol doesn't wear it, but having Recco on does no exclude some one from being in a search.
Some one at the Snowbird had Recco and and left when patrol arrived, whether asked to leave or not I don't know. Recco does not interfere with a search, but I would guess the operator would search a little differently if Recco were present.
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
-
01-14-2009, 02:57 PM #87
I'm totally gonna stick a Recco on my beacon.
-
01-15-2009, 01:43 PM #88RECCO AB
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
- Posts
- 8
To answer Laseranimal, the first responder shouldn't have to leave the site because he has on reflectors, but this comes down to the experience of the detector operator.
Hutash is right...because of RECCO's directionality it is much easier to search around other rescuers, but this takes practice. An experienced detector operator can easily search around other reflector-equipped rescuers. A less-experienced operator may have problems.
Detectors operators are trained how to avoid interferences using a combination of technique and people management. A would-be rescuer can really help a detector operator by letting them know about reflectors. Knowing what searchers have RECCO reflectors allows the operator to make adjustments before he or she starts searching, which is always better then making changes mid course.
The issue of other rescuers with transmitting beacons rushing in to help while a beacon search is going causes serious conflicts. Because beacons transmit in all directions and rescuers (pros or volunteers) are moving around, it is virtually impossible for the beacon searcher to isolate signals. Unless you see a hand or foot sticking out of the snow, it is better you stay away until the beacon search has been completed. Don't turn off your beacon and then rush in to help until you have been informed of some plan by someone in charge. Searchers, including pros, have been struck, buried, and some even killed by second avalanches. Almost always the second avalanche was triggered by other approaching rescuers.
Because of RECCO's directionality, it is very easy to isolate signals and to keep searching effectively. But, as I said, it takes practice.
The issue of other rescuers and signals (organic or electronic) is similar to the situation of searching with avalanche rescue dogs. An experienced dog and handler can work around other rescuers because the dog seeks a scent coming up from the snow. An inexperienced dog and handler will have trouble if having to search with other rescuers present. Certainly, the more rescuers running about on the debris the more difficult the search can be. Less-experienced dogs and handlers may need to temporarily clear an area of people before they can effectively search it. The same applies to a RECCO search, an experienced operator shouldn't have problems, but the less-experienced may.
Hope this helps.
Dale Atkins
RECCO AB
-
01-29-2009, 12:24 AM #89
Beacon Group Buy is taking final orders this Friday 1/30
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=147417
-
02-24-2009, 02:27 PM #90Registered User
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Posts
- 2
In most cases all patrollers cary beacons, and that is the first method of search that is deployed. Buy a beacon if you want to live, buy recco if you want your loved ones to get your body before spring.
-
02-24-2009, 03:35 PM #91
On the topic of cell phones, does anyone know of any instances where someone has been buried and their buddies decide to call their cell to find them? Has this ever saved anyone?
(disclaimer: CELL PHONES SHOULD NOT BE USED INSTEAD OF BEACONS/RECCO, this is strictly a, hmm we've got no this option lets give it a shot scenario)
-
02-24-2009, 05:56 PM #92
^^^only if the ring tone is the theme for "Lassie"
I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...iscariot
-
02-24-2009, 06:14 PM #93
Has anyone considered the idea of a "Recco cover" for patrollers and others who may help in a search?
I'm thinking a small snap on/strap on piece of metal to slip over the Recco before going in to search. This would allow patrollers/more experienced skiers who carry beacons the safety benefits of a Recco while not actively searching, but would prevent them from interfering with a Recco search.
Or would this be more trouble than it's worth?
Bookmarks