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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    crown of the continent
    Posts
    13,401
    Thanks for chiming in Dale.

    I do have to challenge you a bit on number two of your first post. Those of us accustomed to wearing beacons would be very challenged to forget to turn it on, as the switch on many beacons is part of the webbing carry system, and it is part of every pre-flight.

    However, that is a very very minor point, and overall you've presented some great reasons to utilize the Recco system. Thanks again.
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    bozone montuckey
    Posts
    4,359
    Tye, you'd be surprised. Lots of BB folks dont turn theirs on until ready to hike. so you really could find someone with a beacon in their pack (and maybe even the pack at a lift, not on their back) with a beacon in the pocket.

    I think the new slushmans lift is changing that somewhat (you have to beep to board) but its an old habit for some of those folks.
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Ben Franklin

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Squaw Valley
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by HingeFootCutFace View Post
    does anyone know if having a radio signal pass, like at squaw or copper (fasttracks/beeline respectively) interferes with the beacon signals. I would assume the passes are on a different frequencies than beacons, and this would have no effect on recco shit. right?
    No but a beacon can block the fasttracks tag if they are to close. Had problems the first day i was beeping at squaw.
    If things seem in control, Your just not going fast enough.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Squaw Valley
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    out of curiosity--how do dogs compare in search speed to RECCO and beacons. Obviously they have the same disadvantage as RECCO--you have to wait for them to arrive -- I'm asking about speed once they're on the scene. (I feel like the yellow jacket I wear gives me advantage in being found by a dog.)


    Ive seen a dog locate and alert on two beacons faster then the dogs handler could find them using a beacon.

    With practice all three take about the same amount of time to find a single burial. But I guarantee 99% of the time in an inbound event a beacon is gonna be on scene first. Dog and recco arrival time depends on travel conditions to the site, at squaw they are both going to come from the same location (in most situations).


    In addition to being on scene first, the beacon is also the most accurate. Recco can reflect signals off a number of other things. Skis, cellphones, buried metal pipes. Basically anything that can reflect a radar signal. Dogs usually go to the strongest odor, but they can also alert on skis, torn of backpacks, lost gloves and so on. Each alert requires probeing by the handler, possibly wasting time on an article rather then the victim. A beacon will with very, very few exceptions only alert to another beacon.


    Hope your kidding about the yellow jacket...
    Last edited by karma; 01-08-2009 at 07:12 PM.
    If things seem in control, Your just not going fast enough.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
    Posts
    19,716
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    out of curiosity--how do dogs compare in search speed to RECCO and beacons. Obviously they have the same disadvantage as RECCO--you have to wait for them to arrive -- I'm asking about speed once they're on the scene. (I feel like the yellow jacket I wear gives me advantage in being found by a dog.)
    I suspect a lot has to do with how quickly the handler moves the dog through the search area. At the Mammoth slide the dog worked over the derbies field pretty thoroughly, and even can up with a buried beanie from one of the people caught in the slide. By this time patrol was reasonably sure no one was buried, so I think they did a slower more thorough search, but it took a lot longer then the beacon or Recco searches.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Beartooth Mtns.
    Posts
    571
    The “Group Buy” is very much a possibility, we are in the research of available inventory of different models phase.

    For my immediate purpose for the kids, the Pieps Freeride looks good and for a reasonable price but inventory may be an issue. (I think Bridger Bowl has bought a lot up)

    BCA Tracker, BCA Tracker 2 & Pieps DSP are being looked into along with the Pieps Freeride.
    I should have more info tomorrow.



    Quote Originally Posted by Concussed View Post
    Any update? I'm about to pull the trigger on one but if you got a group buy going.......

    Thanks!
    Concussed,
    If you need one soon I suggest pulling the trigger but if you can wait about 3-5 weeks for delivery, it may be worth it.

    I will keep info posted.
    Last edited by mtsprings; 01-08-2009 at 11:34 PM.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    2,429
    Great info from Dale both here and in some PM's. Along with added comments from our peanut gallery. The recco are a very solid back up to our transcievers. They will certainly stay on my boots.
    Last edited by H-man; 01-09-2009 at 08:14 AM. Reason: spelling.... yet again
    Fresh Tracks are the ultimate graffitti.
    Schmear

    Set forth the pattern to succeed.
    Sam Kavanagh

    Friends of Tuckerman Ravine

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    the ham
    Posts
    3,897

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Atkins View Post
    You're right about the freqs and the ranges. While we operate within the band range of mobile/cell phones we operate on different frequencies, so there is not a problem for either RECCO reflectors/detectors and cell phones (and/or transceivers too).

    Dale Atkins
    RECCO AB
    Thanks Dale. I know you guys spent a lot of time researching and did a lot of field testing to find a frequency that has good snow penetration, and it's not surprising that it falls within the spectrum of cell phones. It's good to hear that recco is on a discrete freq.

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Beartooth Mtns.
    Posts
    571
    I now have info on the beacon “Group Buy”

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=147417

    Shoot me a PM and I will get you the details

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Too Far South
    Posts
    5,275
    nobodies answered the question:

    Say a first responder has a beacon plus a reflector and is doing a beacon search, patrol shows up with detector, does first responder then have to leave the scene to prevent interference?

    I remember someone in the JH avie thread saying that patrol was stopping people from helping because they had recco on.

    Anyone have an answer
    For sure, you have to be lost to find a place that can't be found, elseways everyone would know where it was

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
    Posts
    19,716
    I don't think there is an absolute answer. At Mammoth it was not an issue, and JH it appears it was. The Recco detector is very directional since it picks up reflections, and does not work on flux lines like beacons, so once some one with Recco is accounted for the search can just keep searching. It must be easier to search an area with people with Recco on, hence why patrol doesn't wear it, but having Recco on does no exclude some one from being in a search.

    Some one at the Snowbird had Recco and and left when patrol arrived, whether asked to leave or not I don't know. Recco does not interfere with a search, but I would guess the operator would search a little differently if Recco were present.

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  12. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Stuck in perpetual Meh
    Posts
    34,896
    I'm totally gonna stick a Recco on my beacon.

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    8
    Quote Originally Posted by laseranimal View Post
    ...Say a first responder has a beacon plus a reflector and is doing a beacon search, patrol shows up with detector, does first responder then have to leave the scene to prevent interference?
    ...Anyone have an answer
    Quote Originally Posted by hutash View Post
    ...The Recco detector is very directional since it picks up reflections, and does not work on flux lines like beacons, so once some one with Recco is accounted for the search can just keep searching. It must be easier to search an area with people with Recco on...
    To answer Laseranimal, the first responder shouldn't have to leave the site because he has on reflectors, but this comes down to the experience of the detector operator.

    Hutash is right...because of RECCO's directionality it is much easier to search around other rescuers, but this takes practice. An experienced detector operator can easily search around other reflector-equipped rescuers. A less-experienced operator may have problems.

    Detectors operators are trained how to avoid interferences using a combination of technique and people management. A would-be rescuer can really help a detector operator by letting them know about reflectors. Knowing what searchers have RECCO reflectors allows the operator to make adjustments before he or she starts searching, which is always better then making changes mid course.

    The issue of other rescuers with transmitting beacons rushing in to help while a beacon search is going causes serious conflicts. Because beacons transmit in all directions and rescuers (pros or volunteers) are moving around, it is virtually impossible for the beacon searcher to isolate signals. Unless you see a hand or foot sticking out of the snow, it is better you stay away until the beacon search has been completed. Don't turn off your beacon and then rush in to help until you have been informed of some plan by someone in charge. Searchers, including pros, have been struck, buried, and some even killed by second avalanches. Almost always the second avalanche was triggered by other approaching rescuers.

    Because of RECCO's directionality, it is very easy to isolate signals and to keep searching effectively. But, as I said, it takes practice.

    The issue of other rescuers and signals (organic or electronic) is similar to the situation of searching with avalanche rescue dogs. An experienced dog and handler can work around other rescuers because the dog seeks a scent coming up from the snow. An inexperienced dog and handler will have trouble if having to search with other rescuers present. Certainly, the more rescuers running about on the debris the more difficult the search can be. Less-experienced dogs and handlers may need to temporarily clear an area of people before they can effectively search it. The same applies to a RECCO search, an experienced operator shouldn't have problems, but the less-experienced may.

    Hope this helps.
    Dale Atkins
    RECCO AB

  14. #89
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Beartooth Mtns.
    Posts
    571
    Beacon Group Buy is taking final orders this Friday 1/30

    https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...d.php?t=147417

  15. #90
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2
    In most cases all patrollers cary beacons, and that is the first method of search that is deployed. Buy a beacon if you want to live, buy recco if you want your loved ones to get your body before spring.

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Jongistan
    Posts
    5,339
    On the topic of cell phones, does anyone know of any instances where someone has been buried and their buddies decide to call their cell to find them? Has this ever saved anyone?

    (disclaimer: CELL PHONES SHOULD NOT BE USED INSTEAD OF BEACONS/RECCO, this is strictly a, hmm we've got no this option lets give it a shot scenario)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunco perfectly summarizing TGR View Post
    It is like Days of Our Lives', but with retards.

  17. #92
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Ventura Highway in the Sunshine
    Posts
    19,716
    ^^^only if the ring tone is the theme for "Lassie"

    I agree it is a constitutional right for Americans to be assholes...its just too bad that so many take the opportunity...
    iscariot

  18. #93
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Jongistan
    Posts
    5,339
    Has anyone considered the idea of a "Recco cover" for patrollers and others who may help in a search?

    I'm thinking a small snap on/strap on piece of metal to slip over the Recco before going in to search. This would allow patrollers/more experienced skiers who carry beacons the safety benefits of a Recco while not actively searching, but would prevent them from interfering with a Recco search.

    Or would this be more trouble than it's worth?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tunco perfectly summarizing TGR View Post
    It is like Days of Our Lives', but with retards.

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