Care and feeding of your Dukes or Barons

[sequoiashan]

What's the deal with the folded paper method for toe height. I was told that with Vibram it doesn't matter and to adjust the height until it is flush with the sole of the boot. I did search and found nothing to answer my question.

[Tye 1on]

And another question. Anybody had their 'windows' on the heel, where you can see the DIN setting, get all dirty/rusty? How did you clean it off? Does it come off? thanks...

[FlimFlamvanHam]

Can anyone explain to my why I cannot get the binding to switch into touring mode? I can get the lever a little less than halfway over and then get to a point where it won't budge. Has anyone else experienced this?

Yeah, examine the rails it slides on on both the toe and heel pieces. There is some upward pressure from the heel piece (you will notice it pops up slightly when disengaged from ski mode into tour mode) so you may have to push down slightly if it is binding on something. You should be able to see whatever is causing it to stop sliding on the plates.

[FlimFlamvanHam]

1. AFD. I performed the folded paper test to get the proper height adjustment and am somewhat unsure if I've done it just right....

I was discussing this with Campo. His method is set AFD so you can slide it out (with boot in binding) but boot pressure will retain it in the 'slid out' position. Push back on boot (to force toe up) and AFD should slide back into place. By the sounds of it you're within a quarter turn either way of this so it's a non issue.

Also, after the first ~6 days and some touring, I checked the height adjustment and found that they'd loosened up a bit... this is something people should monitor and adjust regularly (been talked about a lot, just thought I would reinforce it).

True. After just the first day mine loosened up significantly and now I check regularly.

A couple comments:
1. Yeah, the climbing bar sucks. It's workable with a ski pole to flip up and down, just requires some fiddling to get it to come up. Depending on the softness of your pole baskets (jeezus am I really getting that specific), it could be less doable. I am jealous of my fritschi friend and his vastly superior climbing bars. No biggie, that's not why I bought dukes.

I think it's fine; it's just not tall enough but apparently shops are starting to stock the longer bars. I find working the climbing bar with my pole grip is far more effective than my baskets.

[altaski85]

Yeah, examine the rails it slides on on both the toe and heel pieces. There is some upward pressure from the heel piece (you will notice it pops up slightly when disengaged from ski mode into tour mode) so you may have to push down slightly if it is binding on something. You should be able to see whatever is causing it to stop sliding on the plates.

Thanks for the hint, I ended up taking it to a ski tech who, undaunted, started pounding on the thing with a rubber mallet. Turns out one of the screws was slipping up and blocking the toe piece. Problem solved.

[Campo]

^^^

Like most ski shop techs, yours is another one of the rejects. There was NO REASON for him to pound on it with a rubber mallet. The only screws that would restrict the bindings fore and aft motion while switching modes is the screws that join the binding to the ski. If they are blocking the binding from switching modes, then they should have just tightened the screw back into the ski and the problem would have been solved. But, apparently your tech is one of the idiots who think they know Markers. I would seriously look over the binding and look for damage from the hammer, especially the middle screw.

In response to Johnny Sizzler...

The folded paper toe height adjustment is what I used to use exclusively until a conversation with a GREAT Marker tech (few and far between these days. In the last week or so I have been experimenting with a single piece of paper, not folded. My reasoning behind this was that a folded piece of paper is, for one, thicker than a single piece of paper, and two, it is stronger than a single piece of paper. To my major surprise, when I starting readjusting my bindings, I found that they were too tight as per the single piece of paper as opposed the the folded. This I attribute to the folded piece of paper being stronger than the single piece. After a lot of thought, I decided to go with the single piece of paper test as opposed to the folded. It didn't seem to yield anymore slop (skied them four times this week) and seems like it made getting in and out a little easier. So, still use the method I listed in the past, just use a single, unfolded piece of paper in place of the folded one.

Still a great binding in my opinion!

[squirrelmurphy]

My latest discovery: you only ever need to flip the lever just enough to get it started, then finish the job of putting them into tour or ski mode (works both ways) by hitting the appropriate end of the binding by hand. Seems like forcing the binding with the lever is the best way to break them, this solves that problem and removes pretty much any stress from the pin on the lever.

[tone capone]

Man, after reading this thread and looking closely at mine, I am really regretting buying dukes. I have only used them one day, but upon checking, there is play in the rivets at the lever on both bindings. I mean, they really do hold the whole thing together with that center screw and those pussy little rivets. I seriously want to hear more from people with lots of days on these. One of my worst fears is getting stuck out because of these. I just don't trust them all that much.

The thing that doesn't make sense to me is that these things, being so damn heavy and with such a high din, are held together by one screw and some seriously anemic little rivets? And they're maketed as an inbounds binding with touring capabilities? It just doesn't make sense. I can't imagine them taking much heavy use. Has anyone here ever had one fail at those rivets? They must get really sloppy as well. Do people seriously drop 40 footers on these? Kind of wish I just saved my money and got a dynafit setup.

[Crampedon]

Bump for input on last post

[squirrelmurphy]

They pretty much only fail at the rivets if you force them onto or off of the tracks using the lever. Either make sure all aspects of the tracks/binding interface are clear of ice before switching modes, or use my method above.

[Campo]

Edit: Listing all that bullshit about your post is pretty much pointless, two words can sum it up just fine!

Dumb Ass!

Did you actually read this whole thread?

Man, after reading this thread and looking closely at mine, I am really regretting buying dukes.

I seriously want to hear more from people with lots of days on these.

I just don't trust them all that much.

It just doesn't make sense. I can't imagine them taking much heavy use.

Do people seriously drop 40 footers on these?

Kind of wish I just saved my money and got a dynafit setup.

[tone capone]

Whatever douche bag, I am just familiarizing myself with a product that I am going to trust my life with, and that in my opinion may have critical design flaws for what people make out to be such a "burly/bombproof/huck to hardpack all day" type of product. I have heard many duke lovers talk about how indistructable they are, but most of them that I know personally don't ski that much or that hard. I just want to hear a little more detail from people that actually ski them hard and have gotten more than 1 season out of them. The idea that you can ski them as your everyday bindings seems bunk to me.

It seems the more I hear, the more it sounds like they are a one season binding and everyone is rushing to get them warranteed for "slop" and other issues I don't appreciate from "Bombproof" gear in one season.

So since you must be way more core than me bra, and since you have had a pair for a while, why don't you let me know what kind of skiing your "great bindings" have held up to? Do you pound them day in and day out inbounds? Have you hucked big shit to crappy landings? Do you just pussy foot and noodle around on them? Enough about whether you set the toe height with a business card or a folded piece of paper. I want to know more about how they have held up in the field. The more I can learn about these from people here the better.

[Donkey Punch]

^^^^^^^^^^ For what its worth, I have 40-50 days on mine since just over a year ago, with probably 15 or so days touring with them. I just had them remounted and discovered that both of the AFDs where broken, still functional, but going to get warranted anyway. For all I know they have been broken since last winter. As for how hard I ski on them, I ended up skiing both Telluride, and Crested Butte comps with these, and had no problems.

[tone capone]

Interesting. At this point it sounds like the exception to not break the AFD's. At least I might not be just walking out of the mountains if it happens. Good news. Anybody put a good hundred days of mixed resort/touring on dukes and not break the AFD?

[Wes Mantooth]

Agreed with working the tour lever slowly, it sometimes just takes patience, and forcing it never works

I find that with Dukes I need to worry more about my touring boots than the bindings, but good call with the center screw, I'll keep that in mind when mounting these tomorrow

[casimiro]

I find myself in a similar situation as Altaski85. I just purchased barons and I cannot transition one of the bindings into tour mode. The lever goes to a 75 angle or so and stops. I cannot see anywhere on the binding it can be catching and stopping the transition. I tried pushing on the toe piece and pulling on the heel piece but to no avail. I do not want to bang away at the binding with a hammer. What are some issues that I could investigate/adjust at home without going into the shop. I live far from the shop where I had them mounted. Thank you in advance for any help.

[F.D.V.]

^^^

Check to make sure one of the screws holding the fore section of the binding to the ski has not gotten loose.

[casimiro]

I checked all screws I could access with the little movement the binding allowed. I then was just working the lever back and forth trying to see where there might be a point of friction etc that was keeping the binding from going into touring mode and Presto! it released I wasn't even putting nearly as much pressure as I was before. I then further inspected the binding and on the toe piece one of the screws in front of the highly discussed center mark had some paint scrapped off. I tightened it down and everything seems to be in smooth working condition. thank you for your time.

[F.D.V.]

^^^

No problem man. I have seen this happen on a few pairs of Dukes/Barons and generally there is a screw that is slightly loose that is creating friction and thus limiting the ability of the binding to swap modes.

[xtrmjoe]

My first set were mounted by a shop and there was slop in the toe on the first run. I fixed it in the parking lot and have not had any issues since. I use the single piece of paper method and error on the side of tighter over looser.
I check them every 5 days or so and have seen little to no movement of the afd after use.
I think that if there is any slop between the toe and afd that breakage will be more likely. With that gap in there when you come down hard your boot applies way more force on the afd as it has room to move/accelerate prior to hitting the afd with lots of force. Way more force than could be generated if the afd is properly adjusted and there is no slop/wiggle room.

[Spats]

Thanks to FDV for the hint about checking the toepiece screws. I've added this to the first post.

[ectreeskier11]

They pretty much only fail at the rivets if you force them onto or off of the tracks using the lever. Either make sure all aspects of the tracks/binding interface are clear of ice before switching modes, or use my method above.

could you elaborate? do you mean just push it up until it sticks, and then either hit the heel piece to lock it in or the toe piece to realease?

[ectreeskier11]

adding to say that i have put maybe 25-30 days on my dukes/jj's in the last few weeks. maybe 6-8 tours. i've skied them at snowbird for a number of days skiing very hard, hucking up to maybe 25-30 feet. they have performed wonderfully, only releasing when they need to and i haven't broken a thing yet. i am very confident at this point in beating the shit out of them, i don't know where everyone is having their issues but i haven't seen any yet.

[Spats]

I think that if there is any slop between the toe and afd that breakage will be more likely. With that gap in there when you come down hard your boot applies way more force on the afd as it has room to move/accelerate prior to hitting the afd with lots of force. Way more force than could be generated if the afd is properly adjusted and there is no slop/wiggle room.

I think you're right -- and it's easy to leave too much slop in the toe height, which is why I posted about it. Snow on your boot toe will also put a lot of stress on the AFD.

It could definitely have been made more burly, especially considering how heavy other parts of the binding are (like the heel tower). Mine are still doing fine, but I don't do the terrain park or huck to flat.

[TWINS]

For anyone having issues getting Scarpas to engage the heel piece correctly.
Push down on the heel release "dildo" with your ski pole while you step in.
This forces the heel to move backwards which helps with the tight boot heel clearance on Scarpas.