Care and feeding of your Dukes or Barons

[jondrums]

1000-oaks - that's a really nice find! Yes, its just conjecture, but I'll put my money behind your explanation.

Deducing design intent just by looking at something is actually quite hard to do - I certainly missed this. But now that you have brought it up, it makes perfect sense. Shame on Marker for losing this detail. The engineers obviously spent a lot of time getting this right, only to have the opposite effect just because Marker didn't bother to communicate this to customers.

That said, there will be significant force and moment during a fore/aft crash (sking under a log, or tail first landing) and this could still break the baseplate. I don't think a loose or tight screw will make any difference in this case. Doing the loose screw thing would only be to prevent problems while the ski flexes IMHO.

The only really bomber fix would be to make that part out of metal. Duke's should be metal, Barons plastic. done. It really wouldn't add THAT much weight, and would fix a multitude of problems.

[critical-motion]

Encountered a new icing issue today. Ice was building up underneath the metal pull-tab that attaches the lever and toe piece. In addition, snow buildup caused the climbing bale to pop from climbing position to pointing forwards under the binding. I'm going to have to try some new forms of non-stick spray to counteract these issues.

[Patches]

1000-oaks is a genius.

[1000-oaks]

Marshalolson has a torque spec for that screw:

i have mounted probably 50 pairs of 08/09 dukes thus far, if you torque to (strangley, wait for it.....) the specified torque ie. 4,5nm everything works right. 4.5nm is not crushed tight, just snug/bottoming.

What's the procedure for reaching a specified torque using a self-tapping screw? The first time it's tightened it'll read a much higher torque than the second and subsequent times. Should it be tightened once, then backed off, then torqued to spec?

[harpo-the-skier]

I ran into some issues while touring in my Dukes/Zzeros today. If they already have been answered, please refer me to the other threads were they are answered. The first 3 threads in my Duke search didn't anwer them:

1) How do you deploy the heel lift while you are in the binding? Lou Dawson implies you can but doesn't say how.

2) Anyone else have trouble stepping into the binding in deep pow? I was having trouble with generating enought downward pressure on the heel without having the ski sink into the pow. The foward pressure is adjusted accoriding to the spec: The screw is flush with the innner part of the housing. When adjusting the foward pressure, I had to be wearing the boot to get enough downward pressure to get the heel piece to close. Previously, I would just get foward pressure tight enough to close the binding by hand, but when adjusted this way, the foward pressure was looser than spec. I discoverd my current method of adjusting foward pressure (wearing boot to close heel piece) by reading a previous thread. Suggestions?

[1000-oaks]

I ran into some issues while touring in my Dukes/Zzeros today. If they already have been answered, please refer me to the other threads were they are answered. The first 3 threads in my Duke search didn't anwer them:

1) How do you deploy the heel lift while you are in the binding? Lou Dawson implies you can but doesn't say how.

2) Anyone else have trouble stepping into the binding in deep pow? I was having trouble with generating enought downward pressure on the heel without having the ski sink into the pow.

1. I haven't used mine yet, but I think you can use the basket on your ski pole to flick down the climbing bail.

2. In deep snow pull up on the lever with your hand while pushing your heel down.

[Choucas]

Yes, you can use your basket to flick the climbing bail down. It's the getting the bail back to flat that's a pain. I can only do it by bending down and pulling it back by hand. Anybody got a better way?

Anybody else have a bit of fore-aft slop with their Dukes? The whole binding moves fore and aft a little bit in downhill mode. Not really a big deal. I can't feel it when I ski.

Also, I need to hose the track down with silicone. I took me forever today in some hellacious Vermont wind to get the track cleaned out enough to make the switch from climb to ski mode. Major icing. I'm about to pull the Dukes and put the Fritschi FR+'s on.

[harpo-the-skier]

Yes, you can use your basket to flick the climbing bail down. It's the getting the bail back to flat that's a pain. I can only do it by bending down and pulling it back by hand. Anybody got a better way?

Anybody else have a bit of fore-aft slop with their Dukes? The whole binding moves fore and aft a little bit in downhill mode. Not really a big deal. I can't feel it when I ski.

Also, I need to hose the track down with silicone. I took me forever today in some hellacious Vermont wind to get the track cleaned out enough to make the switch from climb to ski mode. Major icing. I'm about to pull the Dukes and put the Fritschi FR+'s on.

Yeah, I had problems with icing during my tour also. Will try silicon spray. Fortuantely, the Dukes aren't my primary touring binding.

Do a search - there was a thread on the fore aft slop.

[Spats]

Added a bunch more info from 1000-oaks and jondrums. Thanks!

[Choucas]

Fore and aft play does go away when you put the boot in.

[1000-oaks]

Here's a cool thing about Duke/Baron's, if you want to remount your bindings further forward or back, consider doing it exactly 4cm from your first mount. (the length difference between small and large Baron/Duke frames)

That way later you could sell your skis to someone who might want to use a larger or smaller Duke/Baron, and they might not have to drill new holes.

[harpo-the-skier]

Fore and aft play does go away when you put the boot in.

Mine doesn't. Only 1-2mm though, but its there and I am afraid it will get worse.

[1000-oaks]

My brand-new Barons have that play in the rivets at the lever.

Anybody smash their fingers yet working the heelpiece by hand without a boot in the binding? Looks evil.

[volklpowdermaniac]

Just looked at my dukes today after three days in east vail. AFD IS BROKEN!

The AFD itself is attached to the piece it slides horizontally on. These two pieces have broken off the sliding mechanism.

Is this whole unit replaceable. There might be a thread on this issue, if so point it out....it still seems skiable in the short term....but will I need a whole new binding.

in fact. upon further look, the other afd is cracked.

here are some shitty pics from only camera method I have:

[F.D.V.]

To the top so the Duke JONGs that have been lurking (and can't seem to search) lately can learn and STFU!

[volklpowdermaniac]

I would be scared shitless to handmount a pair of binders into a skis, surely if you specify to the shop, you'd like a handmount, or at least a mount with 4.5nm torque on the center screw....that will suffice? Plus like most pussies in this country, I'm always looking for someone else to be held accountable...

[F.D.V.]

PM sent maniac...

I would be scared shitless to handmount a pair of binders into a skis, surely if you specify to the shop, you'd like a handmount, or at least a mount with 4.5nm torque on the center screw....that will suffice? Plus like most pussies in this country, I'm always looking for someone else to be held accountable...

[leifar]

If the shop has already mounted the center screw and it's in TIGHT, should I...
back it out to the hand tightened spec? remove and woodglue/re-seat? heading to Europe for the season and would rather not deal with any breakage over there...

Also, total JONG question but...when clicked in the binding is supposed to slide back on the rails...? as in forward pressure and toe height are dialed in correctly as stated in this thread and the "resting clicked in position is back of the resting boot out position?"

[Spats]

If the shop has already mounted the center screw and it's in TIGHT, should I...
back it out to the hand tightened spec? remove and woodglue/re-seat? heading to Europe for the season and would rather not deal with any breakage over there...

I can't tell you what to do, but if they were my bindings, I would back it out to hand-tightened. Toe plate breakages can ruin your season.

[Horu]

So I've put around fifteen days on my dukes so far and several tours and have a couple of questions/comments-

1. AFD. I performed the folded paper test to get the proper height adjustment and am somewhat unsure if I've done it just right (given the apparent fragility of this part, it would seem finite adjustment/paranoia is warranted). Here's my process-Tighten the AFD until the paper is stuck, then back it off just until free sliding is achieved. But there's a gray area here, where the paper can definitely slide out without tearing but is pinched to a certain degree. Is this what I'm looking for? I've noticed some light AFD wear after ~12 days, just cosmetic but is this an indicator I've got it set too tight?

Also, after the first ~6 days and some touring, I checked the height adjustment and found that they'd loosened up a bit-no biggie obviously, but it would seem that this is something people should monitor and adjust regularly (been talked about a lot, just thought I would reinforce it).

A couple comments:
1. Yeah, the climbing bar sucks. It's workable with a ski pole to flip up and down, just requires some fiddling to get it to come up. Depending on the softness of your pole baskets (jeezus am I really getting that specific), it could be less doable. I am jealous of my fritschi friend and his vastly superior climbing bars. No biggie, that's not why I bought dukes.

2. I find that putting the binding perpendicular to the ski in tour mode, then flipping the lock lever about halfway over makes clearing ice/snow out from under that metal tab much easier. Also, somebody commented that the flicklock part of a BD pole works well to clear ice from the heel plate- they're right. It's money.

[slobmonster]

I've been mounting a fair # of Dukes/Barons at my shop the past several seasons, and what 1000-oaks has proffered above (i.e. 5th screw not over-tight) seems to be spot on. It's become my habit to tap this hole every time, as it does seem to be a potential spinner; I'm not shy with the helicoils, either.

A "friend" aka frequent flier customer has had me mount and remount his skis numerous times the past few years. Hooked him up recently for some beers, and as it was busy I just had him stand there and watch. I'm like "probably not a good idea to witness your mechanic raping your car, but skis are a bit simpler..."

Re: the mismount clusterfuckage, it can be fixed. WOOD plugs glued and hammered in, re-drill, remount, and there probably won't be a problem. IMO if this ski shop has done well for you in the past, give the a chance to fix things; trust me, "profit" margins in this industry are marginal at best. WC and racer types have their bindings moved around all the time, and trust me the wood plugs are likely stronger than the rest of the ski.

[Tye 1on]

I've been mounting a fair # of Dukes/Barons at my shop the past several seasons, and what 1000-oaks has proffered above (i.e. 5th screw not over-tight) seems to be spot on. It's become my habit to tap this hole every time, as it does seem to be a potential spinner; I'm not shy with the helicoils, either.

A "friend" aka frequent flier customer has had me mount and remount his skis numerous times the past few years. Hooked him up recently for some beers, and as it was busy I just had him stand there and watch. I'm like "probably not a good idea to witness your mechanic raping your car, but skis are a bit simpler..."

Re: the mismount clusterfuckage, it can be fixed. WOOD plugs glued and hammered in, re-drill, remount, and there probably won't be a problem. IMO if this ski shop has done well for you in the past, give the a chance to fix things; trust me, "profit" margins in this industry are marginal at best. WC and racer types have their bindings moved around all the time, and trust me the wood plugs are likely stronger than the rest of the ski.

Great stuff.

So you 'tap' the hole for the 5th screw? Or heli-coil it?

and...have you tried golf tees for wood plugs at all?

thanks to all for this thread, Dukes showed up today and i'm a lot more informed...

[jondrums]

spats - thanks for linking to my thread on fore-aft slop - BUT people should know that it isn't even remotely a DIY garage type fix. I happened to have access to a full machine shop, and made the custom parts to do it. Given those parts, its a pretty simple mod, but I didn't make any extra, and don't plan to make any more. If enough people really want it, I could probably find a shop that would make the parts.

[altaski85]

Can anyone explain to my why I cannot get the binding to switch into touring mode? I can get the lever a little less than halfway over and then get to a point where it won't budge. Has anyone else experienced this?

[hutash]

^^^It sounds like you got something in the rails like a small stone. That is a common problem when touring, and ice fills up the rails, but I don't recall anybody having a problem other then ice.