All-purpose hard-tail? (attn: vagrant owners)

**PrankMonkey** · 11-23-2008, 11:05 AM

Alright, looking to pick up a bike for christmas for a little brother with a penchant for breaking things..apologies to all for another jong "which bike do I buy" thread.

Heres the deal, dude doesn't really have a bike, he pedaling an old ass peugot around campus...singlespeed owing to the fact that the derailleur has shit the bed. Doesn't ride off-road much (as he doesn't have a bike to) but when I've let him borrow my bike he's pretty well killed it on the singletrack. 210lbs-ish, 6'1, has HP to spare, and tends to prefer beatering off the core-stuff until he gets it, vs starting small and working his way up. That being said, I have no idea what specific riding style he'll find his niche in, or what the terrain will lend itself to wherever he moves after graduating, so I kind of need a bike that can do all of 'em as it will be his only trail bike. Tall order I realize, but given the killer deal on 1.5in steerer U-turn Domains over at Santa Cruz, I was thinking that a Large Vagrant w/ the 1.5in HT might be the ticket. Is this the bike he needs or is there something else I should be looking at?

Specific questions on the Vagrant:

When did they switch to a 1 1/8 HT, and does anyone know a reliable place to get one w/ a 1.5" HT?
How would the geo on the Vagrant fair as a heavy XC/AM bike w/ the travel adjusted down? (weight is less of an issue)

Gracias

Z · 11-23-2008, 01:33 PM

Those domains are for sure U-turn right? Cause the 180mm will be too much for that bike..As long as thats the case it seems you've pretty much got it nailed. Vagrant sounds like a good fit.

**FlimFlamvanHam** · 11-23-2008, 01:57 PM

According to Transition, that frame is designed around a 160mm fork. But when you look at the geo specs it's got a DH sloppy 67 degree head angle...but based on a 518mm axle to crown. Silly as most 160mm forks are 545 a2c even the Lyrik it's pictured with on their site.

All this means is the Transition, running a Domain (if capable of running a 7" fork, and I think it is as it's very overbuilt), would be about a 65 degree head angle (565 a2c) and if u-turn to the lowest travel setting would get him a 67 degree h/a.

No good. Pedaling up anything would suck. REally suck. It's a raked out chopper. He would need a pleated leather jacket to go with it. Coming down would be fun till you met a tight corner. Those angles are wayyyy too low.

Run something like a Pike on it and it would be fine as the Pike actually is 518 a2c. Angles are still way too sloppy for an all rounder though.

The best hardtail frame for angles/burl and just all round goodness is the Cove Stiffee. If your bro was lighter I'd point you at it's identical twin, the Handjob (except it's made of thin walled cro-mo instead of aluminum).

**Particle** · 11-23-2008, 02:00 PM

Sizzler, you smoke crack. The U-Turn he is referring to is a 115-160mm fork. Should be perfect for that bike, I just ordered one for my Vagrant in fact.

Prank - should be a great setup and frame. They switched to 1 1/8" this summer. No complaints on mine, and yes you can even ride a 67-HA bike uphill! Wow!!! This is all on my Vagrant. Search and you'll find a bunch of threads.
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...hlight=VAgrant

**PrankMonkey** · 11-23-2008, 06:28 PM

Sizzler, thanks, but I am aware of what the Transition geo page says. Good maggots check around first before asking the mob.

Particle, not a scientific measure, but what would you figure the HT angle would be at the 115mm travel setting? And roughly how much of a bitch is it to take uphill in your current configuration (66 up front?), and...just how much does your build weigh?

**eCr412** · 11-23-2008, 08:56 PM

I've been riding a Norco Sasquatch for the past year, and i ride my stuff pretty hard. It has held up great.

**grubbers** · 11-23-2008, 11:14 PM

try to pick up a used sinister ridge, very fun bike that can handle pretty much everything you throw at it.

**bagtagley** · 11-24-2008, 06:35 AM

Particle's gonna know better than anybody about the Vagrant, but in my opinion it's overbuilt for most riding. That bike was built to take a serious beating. The square chain/seat stays and gusseting are going to make for a very stiff ride. There a plenty of steel hardtails out there than can take a beating without delivering one to your knees and spine. Or even something a little less burly like the Ridge grubbers mentioned might be a better choice.

Check out the On-One 456 or 456 Summer Season.

**Particle** · 11-24-2008, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by PrankMonkey

Sizzler, thanks, but I am aware of what the Transition geo page says. Good maggots check around first before asking the mob.

Particle, not a scientific measure, but what would you figure the HT angle would be at the 115mm travel setting? And roughly how much of a bitch is it to take uphill in your current configuration (66 up front?), and...just how much does your build weigh?

I have a Z1 up front, 150mm...not sure what the A-C height is. It's very climbable with that fork, only thing to be aware of is you need a lengthy seatpost to get full leg extension. I think it's around 67 HA for me right now, I'd imagine lowered to 115 on a Domain (which is apparently a taller fork in general), you'd be rolling around 68? Total guess out my ass though.

My build is about 35lbs. It's a tank for sure, and it is stiff and burly and for a long xc ride will definitely beat you up. But, it is one of the most versatile bikes I've owned - it's comfortable on xc rides, hucking, dirt jumps, whatever.

**TuaDog** · 11-24-2008, 10:29 AM

I was riding with a guy this weekend who was absolutely killing it on a Vagrant with a 170 mm Manitou Travis Single Crown on the front.
We were doing mostly DH type stuff with fire road climbs, and a lot of hike a bike, but I saw him climb quite a bit on that big ol thing. The guy hit everything that we did on our big bikes and then some on the way down.

Of course he is kind of the ultimate dirtbag pinner who was only riding that setup cause he got it on the cheap. I'm sure he could slay it on most any bike you gave him.

Sorry for this worthless post.

**FlimFlamvanHam** · 11-24-2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Particle

Sizzler, you smoke crack. The U-Turn he is referring to is a 115-160mm fork.

Shee-it. I fukt up on that.

Still a fuggin chopper.

Hey, PM, if the Transition site says 67 at 518 a2c then a Domain wound down to 115 = 500 a2c so Particle is right, 68 degrees, give or take. Now where's that crack pipe. Oh yeah, taped to my face. Perfect.

**PrankMonkey** · 11-24-2008, 05:40 PM

Damnit, 68 is still a little steep. I was really hoping I could get it down to 70. (maybe if i ran a 2.7 in the back and a 1.95 up front...). 67/68-70/1 is really what I'd like it to do. Besides, after checking around...no one seems to have that bike for sale. All the used ones are Mediums and when I asked the folks at Cactus Bike in Phoenix (closest Tranny dealer) their response was basically "best of luck but you aren't gonna find one" right after they laughed at me.

So hypothetically, if I one were to have gotten a little excited and pulled the trigger on that Domain w/ the 1.5" steerer...what else should I be looking at.

...or do I just toss the fork/stem up as a sacrifice to Maggotdom and start over w/ a TransAM/465?

**scmartin69** · 11-25-2008, 09:35 AM

Call Randy or Steve @ http://blackrockbicycles.com/
They had my 1.5 HT Vagrant for a warranty return (cracked seat tube, fucking Moab last April); he was supposed to swap it for a new one. I don't know if he ever did or when, but he may have a fresh 1.5 version. Regardless, if you want a Transition call them, they are cool guys who'll work really hard to get you what you need, and they sponsor the DHReno race team.

**PrankMonkey** · 11-26-2008, 10:01 PM

Alright, after considering all the input and comments, looked for an old 1.5" HT Vagrant...found nothing (though Blackrock does still have scmartin's cracked frame).

Looked for a 1.5"HT Ridge...found nothing.

Gave up and picked up a Surly Instigator for dirt cheap (lets see that little fucker break this thing). Gonna try to find a coil Pike for it (anyone currently running a pike w/ a reducer headset that wants to trade for a 1.5" Domain 302 u-turn?) which will run it from what looks like 68-71-ish degrees, and shooting for a 30lb build.

Thanks to all who contributed.