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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    Thumbs up Beat the scammers. Swap the gear.

    There have been some issues arising from scammers on the board, some more overt than others (examples 1, 2, 3, 4). If we put our heads together I think it will be easy to create a solution to this problem. Right now I have several pending transactions with newer folks here and have been worried about getting scammed myself. To protect myself I asked these folks if there were any board members with more history that could vouch for them or if they had executed past transactions through the board with other maggots with more history that could do the same. I imagine lots of other people are doing this as well. It would be much more efficient if this information was easy to access so you could skim the reputation of a buyer or seller without having to send a bunch of reference check emails. The "Props to..." thread has the right information but is hard to sort through (and will get harder as it gets longer). If we take the same information and include it within peoples' profiles it could scale up better over time.

    Potential Solution: Use the profile message space (which is publicly viewable) to aggregate buyer/seller reputation information. If you successfully engage in a transaction, leave feedback in the other party's profile about the transaction and ask them to leave feedback for you (e.g. "great seller - quick shipping, gear as described", etc). If you're new to the board, get one of your friends that has been on for a while to vouch for you in your profile so people won't wonder if you are some dude in Nigeria when you try to buy their skis. Users cannot edit but they can delete messages in their public profile, so this will have to be based on positive feedback (safe to assume negative feedback will be deleted). There are other solutions that can take care of this if it becomes clear down the road that a way to record negative feedback is necessary. You could also add to the "Props to..." thread but this might be a bit more efficient and easy to use.

    Examples of Potential Solution:

    1. My brother is kings run east. He has been on the board for a long time but recently changed his handle. His new handle only has 20 posts but if he tried to buy or sell gear here, a potential transaction partner could check his profile and see that I have vouched for him there and that he is not some dude in Nigeria.

    2. I bought a pair of skis from Skideeppow a while back. Great transaction, gear as described, prompt shipping. Today I left this feedback in his profile for others to see.

    I'll happily leave positive feedback for people I engage in successful transactions. I will also happily vouch for people I know personally and will leave feedback for people I have done business with in the past if they need references.

    Thoughts?
    Last edited by gonzo; 11-05-2008 at 01:36 PM.
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    This sounds pretty sweet!

    I did not know these features existed and I have been on for a few years(K2, Pmag, and a former handle here)...with this type of feedback, you an also PM the posters to get the real story...

    I got scammed last year, but it was only $20 and the dude has not been back. It would suck on a bigger ticket item...

    Ira

    ps. is Advres the one to "Sticky" this?

  3. #3
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    Yeah good point - even if you want to confirm legitimacy via PM or email you can then easily hit whoever has posted feedback in their profile.

    We need more discussion before stickiness...
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

    Buy Your Lift Tickets in Advance and Save

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
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    This is definitely a good idea and I endorse the motion. I just bought some ARGs from a guy who had 11 posts, I was a little wary at first, but he sent me pics and gave me all his contact info, so I dove in, got the skis in no time.

    I dropped him props in the stickied thread, but it would have been much easier to view his profile, rather than try and wade through that long thread, hoping to find positive feedback. Let's make this happen.
    "Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. The winds will blow their freshness into you, and the storms, their energy. Your cares and tensions will drop away like the leaves of Autumn." --John Muir

    "welcome to the hacienda, asshole." --s.p.c.

  5. #5
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Great idea. A golf forum i used to buy/sell a lot of gear on had a similar feedback system. It won't take the place of using some common sense before you send some stranger a bunch of cash, but it would help gain new members some props for deals done well...
    Something about the wrinkle in your forehead tells me there's a fit about to get thrown
    And I never hear a single word you say when you tell me not to have my fun
    It's the same old shit that I ain't gonna take off anyone.
    and I never had a shortage of people tryin' to warn me about the dangers I pose to myself.

    Patterson Hood of the DBT's

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    Boulder
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    good idea, this is a recent PM I recieved...

    Hello

    I am interested in buying the Marz DJ 3 fork that you have placed for sell now, and I would want to enquire about the present condition of the above mentioned, as well as some detail about you. I expect this timely enough.

    As for the payment, I would need you to get back in touch with the last asking price as I will be paying with a certified cheque or money order.

    Lastly, please forward to me your full company's (or house address, telephone and fax) details as I will subsequently prefer reaching you through these facilities.

    Yours interestingly, [name]

    guy has 0 posts, looks like they(scammers) are trying to make sure you are legit by "enquiring" about you. haven't seen this approach before.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Fort Fun / Rabbit Ears
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    I like it!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    8
    I was a zero-poster up until a few days ago; however I am not out to scam anyone. I saw a pair of flexon's I couldn't resist so I made an account. Luckily oftpiste was willing to trust me and everything went fine when I purchased some flexon's from him a couple days back.

    Obviously the examples I read in this post were scammers, but I don't think that it's not fair to lump all lurkers into one category. I don't have too much to post but do enjoy reading the forums.

    Also, money in your paypal from someone with 0 posts is worth the same as someone with 1000+ posts, if there is someone willing to pay first before the item is shipped I don't think there is any reason not to deal with them. If you are buying from someone with 0 posts, you could ask for the item to be shipped first and wait until it gets to your door before paying. I'm sure any legit person would understand if this was asked of them.

    I understand that no one wants to be scammed, and this a good way around it. I look forward to building everyone's trust in me in the future as I will post more here and hopefully have many more successful transactions. Also, if anyone lives/visits the Western NY area (Rochester) feel free to shoot me a pm and I'll be more then happy to give you a couch to sleep on or take you out around town to show you that I'm a real, honest person. Not like anyone would come here for the skiing anyway, but the offer's there!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2002
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    SF
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    Quote Originally Posted by upthebrackette View Post
    stuff
    that's a great example. so now that offpiste has stuck his neck out and transacted with an honest n00b like you, you can ask him to put some transaction feedback on your profile page. next time you want to buy something you'll have a successful transaction recorded on your account in an easy to access format.
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

    Buy Your Lift Tickets in Advance and Save

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    Wasatch
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    I feel like the recent scammers are the forum's punishment for failing to show up at jesse jong''s door with a posse and escorting him to the ATM or pawn shop.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Plains
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    Every time I get on a lift, walk through the parking lot, or walk in a bar at a PNW hill i'll be scanning around for jesse jones. eventually a mag will find him. we have his picture. he skis. we ski. he will be found.

    As I lower post count guy myself who has sold about a grand worth of gear without any problems, I think gonzos idea is great.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    378
    A problem with this approach is that a scammer could use multiple handles
    and give himself positive feedback. Thus, seeming legit. This could give a false sense of security
    and some might drop their guard relying on bogus feedback.

    Let ebay be ebay and TGR be TGR.
    That's Mr. JONG to you, punk!

  15. #15
    advres Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Ira View Post
    ps. is Advres the one to "Sticky" this?
    Stuck like a mothafucka

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobski View Post
    A problem with this approach is that a scammer could use multiple handles
    and give himself positive feedback. Thus, seeming legit. This could give a false sense of security
    and some might drop their guard relying on bogus feedback.

    Let ebay be ebay and TGR be TGR.
    I hear you bobski - definitely potential for gaming that way. If a potential transaction partner had positive feedback from a bunch of folks you'd never heard of before, you could easily check their profiles to see how much history they had.

    Example 1: n00b A has good feedback from bobski. i'm less sketched out.
    Example 2: n00b A has good feedback from n00b B who has good feedback from bobski. i'm less sketched out.
    Example 3: n00b A has good feedback from n00b B and n00b B has no feedback. I'm sketched out.

    the fact is we'd all rather use gear swap than ebay, but we're getting problems here that need to be fixed.
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

    Buy Your Lift Tickets in Advance and Save

  17. #17
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    thanks for the sticky advres!
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

    Buy Your Lift Tickets in Advance and Save

  18. #18
    DJSapp's Avatar
    DJSapp is online now (╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
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    Advres, back in may we had a pm discussion about the board software having a function that allows for forum rating similar to ebay. That combined with the comment section showing who has left feedback (i.e. jong scammers or long term mags) can show a track record of what's gone down around here. I still feel that it could be a beneficial thing.

    Gonzo, thanks for the heads up. I'm not around here so much anymore. I decided to buy a house and am broke at the moment.

    edit: something like this http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...feedback+score
    Last edited by DJSapp; 11-05-2008 at 03:25 PM.
    Fat fuck bubbas are not erosion.

  19. #19
    advres Guest
    DJ - If I remember correctly you pointed me to a certain person on another forum to contact about how to go about doing this. The person said he was only a mod and did not know/have access to how to do it. I will look into it again, but the admin control panel is an enigma to the highest degree.

  20. #20
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    even if you can get stars or some sort of rating rigged up, you're still going to want to dig into the data to make sure that a high rating didn't come from empty accounts. it could be cool, but the ability to look at where the rating comes from is essential. using the public profile message space for this is a code-free way to get to pretty much the same place.
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

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  21. #21
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    This is a very good idea gonzo. I think we should make it happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ernest_Hemingway View Post
    I realize there is not much hope for a bullfighting forum. I understand that most of you would prefer to discuss the ingredients of jacket fabrics than the ingredients of a brave man. I know nothing of the former. But the latter is made of courage, and skill, and grace in the presence of the possibility of death. If someone could make a jacket of those three things it would no doubt be the most popular and prized item in all of your closets.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
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    in the land of milk and honey
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    I like it. This is a great supplement to plain common sense. Don't just single out Nigeria though; Chad, Lebanon, and Libya are also great scammer locations.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
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    My two cents....

    It's really not that hard.
    #1 do your homework and search the threads to see what the person has been buying or selling, who they are interacting with, if the person they did the transaction with is legit, etc.

    #1a. It would be helpful if maggots posted the results of the transaction at the end of the thread.

    #2. If they have a low post count, require money first (basically tell them you are going to wait two days to make sure the check cashes before you send them their shit) or require goods before money is sent.

    *I recently sold a pair of climbing shoes to a 0 poster overseas. I told him straight up that I wanted money via paypal first before I would send them. Money showed up in my account, I transfered money to my bank account. I sent shoes. Transaction successful.*

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Razorslug View Post
    My two cents....

    #1 do your homework and search the threads...

    #1a. It would be helpful if maggots posted the results of the transaction at the end of the thread.
    ...or buyers and sellers post results in the other's profile. 2 birds, 1 stone. No searching required.
    Craig Kelly is my co-pilot.

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  25. #25
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    Dec 2006
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    Its a great idea.

    So great that I starting doing it a month ago when I had a flawless transaction with newb Jqualls

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