Results 1,276 to 1,300 of 1553
Thread: espresso making mags?
-
03-24-2022, 01:58 PM #1276
-
03-24-2022, 03:04 PM #1277
espresso making mags?
@tgapp. Helpful as usual. I am intrigued by flow control. The pump is running really loud on my Expobar and replaced it about 18 months ago and (separate issue) it is again not releasing pressure out of the group head as efficiently as it should. About a year ago I rebuilt part of the E61 to address a similar problem. Probably pulled over 10,000 shots with this thing and getting antsy for an upgrade. Hesitant to just go w a flow control upgrade given how it’s behaving over the last 6 months. Why pay $250 for an upgrade when you could pay $2,500 for a new set up instead???? I don’t know……
Uno mas
-
03-24-2022, 03:18 PM #1278
Aaaaand now I'm lost again...
Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
-
03-24-2022, 05:20 PM #1279
-
03-24-2022, 07:48 PM #1280
You're gonna have to be a bit more specific than that please. DeLonghi makes everything from $99 Walmart junk to nice >$1000 machines.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
-
03-24-2022, 07:52 PM #1281User
- Join Date
- Oct 2003
- Location
- Ogden
- Posts
- 9,080
-
03-24-2022, 07:54 PM #1282
-
03-24-2022, 08:21 PM #1283
-
03-24-2022, 08:24 PM #1284
Ooh, fancy.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
-
03-24-2022, 08:27 PM #1285
-
03-24-2022, 08:46 PM #1286
Would you change your approach at all on a manual, in this case flair 58?
Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
-
03-24-2022, 08:56 PM #1287
Yeah, I wouldn't invest in a flow control in a machine like that. Save your money for a nicer set-up IMO... if pressure isn't releasing it could be the solenoid or it could the brew pin or it could be a lot of other things...but yeah, just get a profiler for your next machine.
For the non-nerds out there, why flow control is such a game changer.
When you roast coffee, it produces a ton of co2 that gets trapped in the beans. That co2 stays in the ground coffee and can keep the coffee from getting properly saturated with water when you brew it. You can see this for yourself if you brew in a french press or a pourover and the coffee is super bubbly - those bubbles keep the coffee from extracting evenly. Making sure all the coffee gets wet is called pre-infusion or sometimes blooming.
When you brew french press or pourover, you can just stir and smash those bubbles and get the coffee all wet. Not so with espresso - so it becomes critical that you pre-wet the coffee slowly and evenly before trying to extract it. Older machines were designed to do this with a brew chamber that would slowly fill with water until a pressure valve is basically tripped, at which point pressure builds and the shot gets pulled - this would take anywhere from 25 to 39 seconds, on average. You don't have any control over this process - it's on or off, with the size and shape of the brew chamber dictating how the coffee pre-infuses - so it's the exact same for light or dark coffees, and these machines were designed with a cafe in mind (meaning - fast pre-infusion times for fast turnover of drinks). Turns out this isn't optimal extraction, but it works pretty damn well for most coffees.
A flow control machine (or a shot profiler) basically works by putting a valve at the top of the brew chamber which allows you to control how fast water is moving into the brew chamber. You can see this in dcpnz's picture - it's a small black knob in the center top of the machine (above a big old hex nut). This valve allows you to slow down (and even stop) the extraction process by controlling how quickly the water is poured into the espresso puck.
Just like in the beginning - too much water will create an uneven extraction - too much pressure towards the end of a shot will tend to extract too many bittering compounds. It'll make your espresso taste like an ash tray, after about 35 seconds on average. So a flow control valve also helps with that side of the extraction curve, allowing for you to slowly back off of the pressure in the group head so that the coffee doesn't over-extract and become bitter. So while a flow profiled shot runs longer, it's at max pressure for proportionally less time than a standard machine - I'm only at 9 bars or whatever for 10 seconds before I start backing off slowly. Most of the shot is at far less than 9 bars.
So yeah, unless your machine has flow control, a $500 machine will make pretty much the same espresso as a $5000 machine. Flow control changes that equation significantly though, as the extraction curve looks nothing like that of a traditional machine where the pump is either on or off.
-
03-24-2022, 09:04 PM #1288
No - ha, the whole thing is, a flow profiler is just trying to recreate what a lever does by design. I would add water to your group head, step away for a second, max pressure for 5-10 seconds, and then ease up on the pressure you're applying until you hit blonding or max shot volume. My guess is the total shot time will be a little less but the same general idea applies.
How are you liking your flair58? Really cool machine
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
-
03-24-2022, 09:55 PM #1289
I like it. Still getting it dialed though. I didn’t realize that adding the water on its own was enough to start the bloom / penetrate the puck. I’ve been either applying 1-2 bar for an extended time or going to 5 then waiting 10-30 seconds before hitting 9 -10 for 10 seconds then backing down. Any good resources specific to lever machines you know of?
Right now I think my roast and grinder are my weakest links. Now I just need to drop $4k on a new roaster and espresso grinder. : ).
-
03-25-2022, 07:25 AM #1290
espresso making mags?
I use “pre-wetting” with my E61. I just gently shower the puck for ~5 seconds at zero bars of pressure. Wait a few seconds to allow for seeping penetration and then I crank the lever. I can’t say this truly matters to shot flavor but I’ve found no downside to it and hope it aids more even extraction. Although I have read the E61 does this on its own as it gently builds pressure by design. It sounds like what you are already doing is the preferred pre-infusion approach.
The only true difference I’ve found is the pucks pop out of the portafilter cleanly post extraction and hold shape in the compost bin. No pre-wetting and the puck sticks to the portafilter and requires a bit more aggression to release (at times scooping necessary) so this discovery adds convenience if nothing else.
Tgapp has me jonesing for the Lelit Bianca so I hear you on foolish budget contemplations. I pull ~1,500 shots a year so that is making me think I am not totally crazy and have gotten about a decade out of my Expobar Office Lever (10-15K shots later I stew on whether it suffices absent flow control). If I get a decade out of the Bianca it works out to $20/month!Uno mas
-
03-25-2022, 11:34 AM #1291
https://youtu.be/MayOpUb6MO0
For those interested I made a quick workflow video showing how I pull a shot. I didn't bother cleaning up my work area (sorry, mental health is a bitch) and it's kinda hard to do some things with a phone in your hand.
A few notes:
-18.5g in (estimated, +/- .25g), 45g out, 202f, 78 seconds
- Niche zero was on a setting of 12. For reference, 15 is the standard espresso setting on that grinder, but because of how light this coffee is, I grind it a fair bit finer.
- in hindsight I should have drawed down a little quicker and cut the pump maybe 3-5 seconds sooner but that's just me being nitpicky. I'd like to be closer to 40g on this one.
- This is the coffee I used:
https://thecaptainscoffee.com/produc...a-taisha-blend
In the cup it tastes like milk chocolate dipped candied oranges. Sweet, sour, fruit forward, chocolate, little bit of bitterness. Super satisfying. I roasted it very light over a long period of time, creating sweetness without losing the citrus acidity or floral notes.
@Doremite, here is a killer deal on a Bianca. I work in Chicago and could help facilitate it.
https://www.home-barista.com/buysell...go-t79343.html
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
-
03-25-2022, 11:57 AM #1292
espresso making mags?
Helpful video, man. Thanks for posting it up. Best crema porn on the interwebz right here!
Too generous on the facilitation offer but greatly appreciated!
Ironically my pump just died about 25 seconds into extraction as a result of my reservoir getting too low. Normally I’d be all pissy about wasting a shot but I just let it the existing pressure flow through the puck for about 10 seconds and then grabbed the cup. 17g in, 34 out about 35 second extraction time and the shot tastes amazing. Impromptu flow control!Last edited by Doremite; 03-25-2022 at 12:44 PM.
Uno mas
-
03-25-2022, 01:23 PM #1293
Thanks for the video!!! Now I want flow control. Haha. That's straight perfection. Beautiful shot.
Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
-
03-25-2022, 02:42 PM #1294
super helpful to see the video - way less complicated than i imagined
-
03-26-2022, 02:18 PM #1295
I suck at cappuccino art
Sent from my Pixel 6 Pro using Tapatalk
-
03-26-2022, 02:27 PM #1296
nice mug. I didn't know they had swag.
-
03-26-2022, 02:30 PM #1297Registered User
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Posts
- 1,419
-
03-26-2022, 02:38 PM #1298Registered User
- Join Date
- Nov 2010
- Posts
- 1,419
-
03-26-2022, 04:59 PM #1299
Well, first, milk. Sorry, that's gotta be an awesome robot cleaning system to clean the milk part. Its fucking milk. I dunno about you, but I am extra careful around milk. So are most commercial establishments.
But, second, the one thing I've learned with my little Breville Bambino is to clean as much of the residue from the espresso draw process as possible. That stuff can get nasty, quick.
So, anyway, how do you really clean one of those el grandes do everything machines, because, as much as I know, you have to do it a lot. In my kitchen, every fucking time. Sure, I scale and clean the head when needed, but, that other stuff?Last edited by Benny Profane; 03-26-2022 at 05:41 PM.
-
03-27-2022, 07:13 AM #1300
Bok Choy?
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsHowever many are in a shit ton.
Bookmarks