the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

**Stewy30** · 01-31-2017, 03:28 PM

https://skiyard.com/collections/boot...ant=4821502211

Another big boy boot. From what I've read Scorpions are much stiffer than their the average equivalent flex rating boot. Unfortunately they don't have the 150 flex WC boot in a 28.5 anymore.

**pureshred** · 01-31-2017, 03:30 PM

My snowboard boot liners have packed out. Aside from some minor toe bang, the extra room created is most noticeable on the sides of my ankles because it allows my feet to overpronate in my boots even with custom insoles.
While I do notice my feet rolled inwards in my boots, it doesn't actually affect my riding. It's not until after a day on the hill or even the day afterwards that my ankles and knees start to hurt, and hurt for a few days.
So far I've added C pads to take up the extra room and they help, but only a bit. I'm no expert but it would seem I need to add more padding and/or move the padding lower by the foot.

Best boot shims (or other technique?) to take up this ankle slop and correct overpronation?

**auvgeek** · 01-31-2017, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Stewy30

https://skiyard.com/collections/boot...ant=4821502211

Another big boy boot. From what I've read Scorpions are much stiffer than their the average equivalent flex rating boot. Unfortunately they don't have the 150 flex WC boot in a 28.5 anymore.

I love ski yard and I've bought 3 pairs of boots from them. If lordF thinks he can go to a 27.5 and 150 flex, they have the 150 WC for USD $90.

https://skiyard.com/collections/boot...ant=4463217283

**lordf** · 01-31-2017, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by mntlion

lordF
1) what is different about the heel hold on right vs left? any body changes? knee surgeries? calf tears? etc?

2) it sounds like the heel is moving but the whole leg is loose, or not all the way back in the boot? Is this the feeling of overflexing the boot (FLEX) or the foot not held in place (FIT)?

3) yes, get a 95 or 98mm, 150 race boot. size 28 (maybe 27)
both nordica and technica/blizzard have some DEALS on the race outlet sites in canada, or order something online, or if you have a shops that stocks race boots get that.

No changes in my legs or injuries thankfully. The best description I can give is my clad feels like is loose in the boot so once I crank it down the lower part becomes loose so I crank it down and then I loose circulation. It feels like my leg is trying to rotate in the boot. The Flex issue follows as I then push the boot even looser once I push against it.

Technica deals look good, only worry would be buying something off the net, might save and go and see one of the race fitters in he U.K. How hard would it be to fit a size down shell myself? I have tools and I'm not scared of DIY as I've done similar but with car bits,

Originally Posted by auvgeek

Lange boots are pretty upright and soft in the forward flex. At 160# I can bottom out the RX 130, so it makes total sense that you'd find them too soft. I also thought there was a lot of ankle volume in the standard RX. A zipfit might help with the heel hold issues, but it sounds like you need/want a stiffer boot.

Before going to a full-on plug boot, you might try the Dalbello DRS/DMS 130 and Head Raptor 140 RS. I found the DMS 130 significantly stiffer than many 130 flex stock boots, and it's has a generous forward lean (too much for me), while still being reasonably wide in the forefoot. Raptor is about the same; adrenalated and I disagree about which is stiffer, so they're probably pretty close. If the Raptor 140 is too soft, the Raptor B2 is a 96 last, I believe, which is on the wider end of plug boots.

I don't know much about the Nordica and Tecnica options, but having bought plug boots for cheap off the web and had a boot fitter fit them, I think it's best to buy them from a shop who will guarantee the fit and the boot fitting is included in the price. Otherwise, you could spend more and potentially risk a bootfitter saying something to the effect of, "I never said I could get these to fit your wide feet." Unless your boot fitter has checked off on the boot and thinks he can get them to fit correctly.

Cheers, I liked the stance of he heads when I tried on the 115 a few years ago (shop didn't have the 140), will probably go and have an expensive day at one of the race boot places in the uk

**mntlion** · 01-31-2017, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by pureshred

My snowboard boot liners have packed out. Aside from some minor toe bang, the extra room created is most noticeable on the sides of my ankles because it allows my feet to overpronate in my boots even with custom insoles.
While I do notice my feet rolled inwards in my boots, it doesn't actually affect my riding. It's not until after a day on the hill or even the day afterwards that my ankles and knees start to hurt, and hurt for a few days.
So far I've added C pads to take up the extra room and they help, but only a bit. I'm no expert but it would seem I need to add more padding and/or move the padding lower by the foot.

Best boot shims (or other technique?) to take up this ankle slop and correct overpronation?

1) go buy boots that fit you, that are smaller to start with

2) start skiing

3) Try adding "C" pads if you are not willing to do #1 or #2

**lordf** · 02-01-2017, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by auvgeek

I love ski yard and I've bought 3 pairs of boots from them. If lordF thinks he can go to a 27.5 and 150 flex, they have the 150 WC for USD $90.

https://skiyard.com/collections/boot...ant=4463217283

I've found the 130 on close out in the UK, how much work would it take to make the 27.5 fit?

**lordf** · 02-01-2017, 12:25 PM

Found these locally, worth a punt? http://www.skibartlett.com/ski-boots...dium-2011-p240

**mntlion** · 02-06-2017, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by lordf

Found these locally, worth a punt? http://www.skibartlett.com/ski-boots...dium-2011-p240

try them on and see how they feel?

**Bobcat Sig** · 02-06-2017, 12:23 PM

I took my first-year Lange RX 130s to a local shop, better known for their retail presence. Their solution to fixing the narrow last was shove both shells into a convection oven, heat, pull out, insert liners, crank down bottom two buckles and cool with ice packs. Worked great until I got on the hill yesterday... both cuff bolts that hold the upper cuff to the lower (near the ankle bones) seemed to have rounded out and are loose. All day, I thought the boots were too loose and proceeded to, at every run, crank the buckles down to no avail. When I got home to dry the boots, the connection of the cuff to the lower was alarmingly loose. No amount of tightening the bolts seemed to help.

Am I hosed and need new boots?

**mntlion** · 02-06-2017, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

I took my first-year Lange RX 130s to a local shop, better known for their retail presence. Their solution to fixing the narrow last was shove both shells into a convection oven, heat, pull out, insert liners, crank down bottom two buckles and cool with ice packs. Worked great until I got on the hill yesterday... both cuff bolts that hold the upper cuff to the lower (near the ankle bones) seemed to have rounded out and are loose. All day, I thought the boots were too loose and proceeded to, at every run, crank the buckles down to no avail. When I got home to dry the boots, the connection of the cuff to the lower was alarmingly loose. No amount of tightening the bolts seemed to help.

Am I hosed and need new boots?

1) ask the store to "help" and see what they say. odds are they have better tools to help hold the inside nut in place.

2) drill em out, and replace.

**TAFKALVS** · 02-06-2017, 01:57 PM

Easy question-

Have Lange RX130 LV.

I would like slightly more forward lean than the spoilerless setup but the included spoilers are too aggressive. I don't need/want much, just a little more to keep me in a slighty more flexed position without having to constantly lift toes/work to stay in the sweet spot of ankle flexion.

Google has been fruitless in trying to find a thin spoiler. Any fitters got a set they can sell or have hints on where to order? Or have other ideas to achieve what I want.

**mntlion** · 02-06-2017, 01:59 PM

take the thicker spoilers and grind em thinner?

you can usually find a bin of old spoilers in most boot shops?

or DIY with some high density foam

**Rossymcg** · 02-06-2017, 03:36 PM

Mntlion, this thread keeps you busy. Full respect for helping all the maggs out

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-06-2017, 04:28 PM

Ok, now I have to ask the stupid questions: Intuition liners. No more bakes left. Didn't use enough of a toe cap. Maybe none. Got black toenails for the first time in my life from a little touring. Can I just have my local shop stretch the liner in the toe?

**mntlion** · 02-06-2017, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

Ok, now I have to ask the stupid questions: Intuition liners. No more bakes left. Didn't use enough of a toe cap. Maybe none. Got black toenails for the first time in my life from a little touring. Can I just have my local shop stretch the liner in the toe?

sure:

or heat the mid foot forward, and WEAR a toe cap and crank the shit out of the buckles while the liner cools

FYI: the "can only bake 3 times" I have found to a bit paranoid

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-06-2017, 06:41 PM

Good to know. And I have been able to make some small adjustment, like change between boots to work by wrapping the forefoot part in a heating pad.
I bought these used, so heating them again is probably not an option since it kinda took me 2 tries to get it right. Might have been 1.5, but I remember it didn't go exactly right, so fulling reheating them is probably not an option.
Might try a little hair drier action since idk when I'll be stopping by the boot fitter next, as much as I could maybe use another few punches.
Thanks.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 02-06-2017, 11:09 PM

Made a little headway, maybe. All I have for toe caps are the tips of some old ski socks that are slightly thicker than my Smartwool ultralights (maybe). Didn't really get the liners that hot. Some of it might be the low toebox in the boot. Might just have them stretched a bit.
Eventually, I'll have to get something with a walk mode.

**whyturn** · 02-13-2017, 01:18 PM

So I put the Aline insole on boot board and then intuition and went skiing. Arch felt good but had weird sensation of not being able to control skis. I felt like I could not engage sidecut. Now it was very wet fast snow so that is definitely a factor. I had no insole forever and wanted to try one.

In the thread it talks about stand up and lock legs. Is all weight on balls of feet? Seems that way but it was weird for first half of day.

Should I adjust forward lean on my full tulips to get me back flat? I mean before I felt very flat with boot and FKS and everything was easy. But I did get some arch pain so I wanted to fix with the footbed.

I like support it just feels like I can't engage well in powder on steep slopes. Groomers were fine. Snow was really fast and light was flat. Thoughts, comments, ideas. I know go see a bootfitter. Thanks

**mntlion** · 02-13-2017, 03:19 PM

I would keep playing the footbed(s) and not add another variable like boot F lean.

**Gorilla** · 02-14-2017, 05:00 AM

I kind of know WTF is wrong with my boots, I just need to know what to do about it. I am using a Scarpa Freedom SL. The upper cuff is quite tipped out and there is only one adjustment rivet on the outside of the cuff. There is no adjustment rivet on the other side of the cuff. Standing in the boots on my footbeds without the liner and with the boots lightly buckled, the inside of my calf touches the shell. I have about 10mm of space between the outside of my calf and the shell. Otherwise the boots are a reasonable fit.

I have had someone look at modding the boot to put adjustment rivets where there currently aren't any but this is not possible. It would require removing more plastic than is wise. I am therefore casting around for other options. If anyone has any suggestions here, I'd really appreciate it as this is having a definite effect on my skiing.

**mntlion** · 02-14-2017, 09:00 AM

usually you can drill out the non-adjustable rivets and replace with adjustable ones?

maybe a small shim, under the footbed, on the inside?

maybe a footbed that has more arch support? (not thicker)

**Gorilla** · 02-14-2017, 09:51 AM

Much appreciated Mntlion. Unfortunately #1 is apparently not physically possible. I've had someone check that out and apparently it would compromise the integrity of the boot. I tried a 2 degree lateral shim between the bootboard and the liner but that made things worse. The fatter bit of the shim was directly under the arch - so the inside of the boot. I got the impression that was moving my knee further inwards and I'm aware that is the exact opposite of what should have happened. I also got pretty nasty shin bang.

I'll investigate the foot bed option.

Under boot canting would be an option here - or is that a solution to a different problem?

**mntlion** · 02-14-2017, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Gorilla

Much appreciated Mntlion. Unfortunately #1 is apparently not physically possible. I've had someone check that out and apparently it would compromise the integrity of the boot. I tried a 2 degree lateral shim between the bootboard and the liner but that made things worse. The fatter bit of the shim was directly under the arch - so the inside of the boot. I got the impression that was moving my knee further inwards and I'm aware that is the exact opposite of what should have happened. I also got pretty nasty shin bang.

I'll investigate the foot bed option.

Under boot canting would be an option here - or is that a solution to a different problem?

starange that new bolts are not an option, maybe get a second opinion?

try the shim on the other side if the medial side made it worse,

maybe an under binding shim?

**Gorilla** · 02-14-2017, 10:40 AM

Sure - really appreciate the ideas.

**Preserved** · 02-14-2017, 05:12 PM

mntlion,

Question: what are the symptoms of a ski boot being too stiff? Can you tell by watching someone ski? My 105 lb wife has tiny feet, & happy to find Scarpa Freedom SL 120 that comes in a 267 BSL, that actually fits her feet. She's generally fine cruising around on groomers, who isn't ..but when faced with more challenging snow in the back country, or steeps she struggles. Just today, skiing 15" of fresh but heavy snow she seems to be easily tossed in the back seat. It appears to me that she's unable to flex her knees forward - hips up and down, so to deal with terrain changes so she bends her knees letting her hips go back, and off balance. Could this be right? She's fit, and gets out on her skis a few times a week, but it just seems like she's fighting the gear.

Just for kicks, we carpet tested the flex in our boots. I've got the Freedom RS 130, with my 190lbs and long legs I can flex the boot forward and it returns nicely. With my wife @ 105 lbs and her Freedom SL 120s, she can't flex them nearly as much even in a warm living room. This might be the stiffness of the cuff, but I'm also wondering if the boot itself doesn't scale well down to such a small size. It looks like the front bottom of the cuff is bumping the lower shell at the corner, preventing flex. I'm tempted to grind some of the cuff under the buckle to make more room, maybe get more flex? Thoughts on this? I called Scarpa, and they mentioned that the same cuff is used for huge range of boot sizes, with hers at the bottom of the range.

Thanks a ton for any insight.

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