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  1. #1451
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    Question for the collective- I'm at my wits end with a decade too long boot issue. I've gotten plenty of good info here over the years, but now need some help. Long term skier, ex patroller lots of foot issues- heel spurs, high arch and instep, mortons on both feet, history frostbite (Lange XLR's, Whites) and feet tend to swell after a few hours of skiing, no matter what temps. Been to the best boot guys I could find Reno/Tahoe, they've all put me in wide 26.5's, 120 flex and then punched the forefoot out to 105+.

    Now getting chilblains on previously injured toes that turn purple and burn, blister and bleed by the end of the season. Currently in some new Dalbello Panterras with new orthotic footbeds w/heaters, and the issue is coming back. The shells have been heat molded. I measured both feet w/brannock (both near 26.5, +/-) and over the instep w/soft tape (28.5). Would bumping up a size solve any problems or am I chasing my tail??

    Any thoughts are appreciated in advance, I know there's a lot of experience out there. And yes, I have tried the red ones...
    "if you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind..."

  2. #1452
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
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    577
    http://www.verdonkracing.com/product/metal-din-shims/

    Does anyone here have experience with these? I use plug boots and would love to have something to keep the heel and toe lugs in better shape. Do you guys think there would be issues with the binding interface? Would it break DIN norm even if it is at the correct height?

    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #1453
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    in the shadow of the white rocks
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    1,657
    ^ they work; Head has em in their catalog or ya get em from Cold River. Needs to be routered for DIN.

  4. #1454
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    Feb 2011
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    Awesome! No problem in pivots or other freeride bindings?

  5. #1455
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    Mar 2006
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    truckee
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    New Years bump...--------
    "if you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind..."

  6. #1456
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    Feb 2005
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    Vancouver BC
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    Do small blisters on outer (lateral?) part of my heel after touring indicate not enough heel hold in my boot, or could it mean not enough room? I have a new setup (Hawx XTD 130 with Intuition Tour Wrap liners) and after a day of touring I have a small blister on the outside of each heel. Strangely, the boot actually feels like it's a touch too narrow in the heel as if it is pinching my heel from the sides. Note that I unbukcle my boots completely while skinning including lower buckles, I did read that leaving lower buckles done up while skinning could help this?

    I've never had blisters or heel issues in boots before, even after hut trips. Previous boots were Maestrale RS 1.0 with stock liners.

  7. #1457
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by gramboh View Post
    Do small blisters on outer (lateral?) part of my heel after touring indicate not enough heel hold in my boot, or could it mean not enough room? I have a new setup (Hawx XTD 130 with Intuition Tour Wrap liners) and after a day of touring I have a small blister on the outside of each heel. Strangely, the boot actually feels like it's a touch too narrow in the heel as if it is pinching my heel from the sides. Note that I unbukcle my boots completely while skinning including lower buckles, I did read that leaving lower buckles done up while skinning could help this?

    I've never had blisters or heel issues in boots before, even after hut trips. Previous boots were Maestrale RS 1.0 with stock liners.
    blisters usually indicate a movement or motion, so that is usually a something too big issue. later heel is often from a pronation, arch collapse thing, so a more supportive footbed migth help? one with more/higher arch, or a thin wedge, under the footbed, on the inside of the heel.


  8. #1458
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    Jan 2009
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    Here's a new one for me. I have about 20 days on my ZeroG Pro Tour. Tight shell fit (1 finger) and narrower last than I'm used to in the forefoot but the bootfitter made them work with a couple of punches to widen the toe tox (I don't have a pronounced 1st of 5th metatarsal so nothing pointy sticks out, he just widened things around the 5th and the tip of the big toes). I have a very flat foot and need a relatively stiff and thick footbed to properly post my foot. All this took up a fair amount of vertical real estate so the bootboard is sanded to the point of being transparent. I decided to try compression socks to create a bit more space and avoid freezing toes.
    The first 15 days went great with absolutely no pressure points but the last 5 tours I've developed an acute pressure point on the outside/upper part of my left pinky toe. I think the tight socks squeeze it hard against the next toe, scrunching it up so one of the phalanges bulges out and hits the shell. It's getting progressively worse, especially in less than perfect snow when the foot moves around in the boot a bit more. It's significantly less noticeable with thicker non-compression socks but my toes tend to get colder with those.

    Do I need a new punch or could I get by with thinning out the footbed under the pinky toe so it has a bit more room to spread down and doesn't protrude up and out as much?

  9. #1459
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    blisters usually indicate a movement or motion, so that is usually a something too big issue. later heel is often from a pronation, arch collapse thing, so a more supportive footbed migth help? one with more/higher arch, or a thin wedge, under the footbed, on the inside of the heel.
    So I'm a dumbass as the blisters are actually on the inside/medial heel not outside. Thanks though, motion does = blisters, any thoughts on common causes of inside/medial blister? I'll go back to Intuition after another ski day I think.

  10. #1460
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    Oct 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Here's a new one for me. I have about 20 days on my ZeroG Pro Tour. Tight shell fit (1 finger) and narrower last than I'm used to in the forefoot but the bootfitter made them work with a couple of punches to widen the toe tox (I don't have a pronounced 1st of 5th metatarsal so nothing pointy sticks out, he just widened things around the 5th and the tip of the big toes). I have a very flat foot and need a relatively stiff and thick footbed to properly post my foot. All this took up a fair amount of vertical real estate so the bootboard is sanded to the point of being transparent. I decided to try compression socks to create a bit more space and avoid freezing toes.
    The first 15 days went great with absolutely no pressure points but the last 5 tours I've developed an acute pressure point on the outside/upper part of my left pinky toe. I think the tight socks squeeze it hard against the next toe, scrunching it up so one of the phalanges bulges out and hits the shell. It's getting progressively worse, especially in less than perfect snow when the foot moves around in the boot a bit more. It's significantly less noticeable with thicker non-compression socks but my toes tend to get colder with those.

    Do I need a new punch or could I get by with thinning out the footbed under the pinky toe so it has a bit more room to spread down and doesn't protrude up and out as much?
    so its better with a thicker sock? and has been getting worse as the boots pack out?

    sounds like you need less room, not more.


  11. #1461
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    so its better with a thicker sock? and has been getting worse as the boots pack out?
    sounds like you need less room, not more.
    Would too much room be consistently noticeable though? I feel like if my foot had room to wiggle about it would only occasionally be in a position to bruise the toe, not pretty much all the time. The thick socks aren't so much thicker as they are less tight around the toes and they let my toes spread a bit more whereas the compression socks (in which I notice the pain a lot more) bunch my toes together and force the pinky to scrunch up a bit. I'll try to get a pic.

  12. #1462
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    Nov 2005
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    Why do the bottoms of my feet hurt so fucking much? I have extremely neutral footbeds in all of my shoes (stock) and the same with my boots, but fuck, I want to murder someone because my soles hurt so bad. I guess eventually I get past it every year but it seems to take half the season, and it definitely cuts short some days early on (like today).

    Is this just a function of the wrong footbed, or am I a giant fucking pussy? I lean towards the latter.

  13. #1463
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Why do the bottoms of my feet hurt so fucking much? I have extremely neutral footbeds in all of my shoes (stock) and the same with my boots, but fuck, I want to murder someone because my soles hurt so bad. I guess eventually I get past it every year but it seems to take half the season, and it definitely cuts short some days early on (like today).

    Is this just a function of the wrong footbed, or am I a giant fucking pussy? I lean towards the latter.
    try other footbeds (more or less support) or none at all and see what is better?

    do you get the same pain in any other sports or activities?


  14. #1464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Would too much room be consistently noticeable though? I feel like if my foot had room to wiggle about it would only occasionally be in a position to bruise the toe, not pretty much all the time. The thick socks aren't so much thicker as they are less tight around the toes and they let my toes spread a bit more whereas the compression socks (in which I notice the pain a lot more) bunch my toes together and force the pinky to scrunch up a bit. I'll try to get a pic.

    maybe its sock compressing the foot? again try a few combos BEFORE punching shell, or padding liner


  15. #1465
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    Dec 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boissal View Post
    Do I need a new punch or could I get by with thinning out the footbed under the pinky toe so it has a bit more room to spread down and doesn't protrude up and out as much?
    Punching for fifth met head width commonly results in pressure being referred to the next most prominent point, usually the little toe (I typically punch the toe area as a matter of course when doing a fifth met punch for this reason). Sounds like your foot was stable enough when the liner was new, but now that it's packed out you are moving longitudinally in the boot and ramming your toe into the shell. If you've done everything you can to prevent your foot from sliding forward, have the boots punched at the little toe.

  16. #1466
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    maybe its sock compressing the foot? again try a few combos BEFORE punching shell, or padding liner
    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    Punching for fifth met head width commonly results in pressure being referred to the next most prominent point, usually the little toe (I typically punch the toe area as a matter of course when doing a fifth met punch for this reason). Sounds like your foot was stable enough when the liner was new, but now that it's packed out you are moving longitudinally in the boot and ramming your toe into the shell. If you've done everything you can to prevent your foot from sliding forward, have the boots punched at the little toe.
    Thanks to both of you. I'll do a few more days with various socks to see if un-squeezing the toes makes a difference and if not I'll go back to the boot-fitter to discuss an additional punch

  17. #1467
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    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Why do the bottoms of my feet hurt so fucking much? I have extremely neutral footbeds in all of my shoes (stock) and the same with my boots, but fuck, I want to murder someone because my soles hurt so bad. I guess eventually I get past it every year but it seems to take half the season, and it definitely cuts short some days early on (like today).

    Is this just a function of the wrong footbed, or am I a giant fucking pussy? I lean towards the latter.
    Hilariously, I called my local bootfitter yesterday with literally the exact same complaint. He acted like he had no clue how to help me. I thought about buying some thin cork or a sheet of 1/8 in rubber on Amazon and attempting a DIY treatment under my liner... but chances are I'll just make a mess that will clean up right around the time of the season I get used to it and the pain goes away. Good luck... let me know if you fix anything.

  18. #1468
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    Quote Originally Posted by FJ62 View Post
    Hilariously, I called my local bootfitter yesterday with literally the exact same complaint. He acted like he had no clue how to help me. I thought about buying some thin cork or a sheet of 1/8 in rubber on Amazon and attempting a DIY treatment under my liner... but chances are I'll just make a mess that will clean up right around the time of the season I get used to it and the pain goes away. Good luck... let me know if you fix anything.

    same questions as above.

    plus do you get the pain if you put the boots on inside and sit around? standing? Or only skiing?

    read and answer the 10 questions at the start of this thread please. will help us answer better


  19. #1469
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Why do the bottoms of my feet hurt so fucking much? I have extremely neutral footbeds in all of my shoes (stock) and the same with my boots, but fuck, I want to murder someone because my soles hurt so bad. I guess eventually I get past it every year but it seems to take half the season, and it definitely cuts short some days early on (like today).

    Is this just a function of the wrong footbed, or am I a giant fucking pussy? I lean towards the latter.
    What do you mean by "extremely neutral?" In footbed terms, that usually means subtalar neutral, but that doesn't mean it matches your arch shape. What footbed is this?

    You need to be more specific about where it hurts - ball of foot, mid-arch, heel? They tend to have different causes.

  20. #1470
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Is this just a function of the wrong footbed, or am I a giant fucking pussy?
    Take the footbeds out of the boots and stand on them barefoot, in your normal ski stance. Roll your feet toward the outside and back, watch that the shape of your arch matches the curve of the footbed. Do you feel anything pressuring your foot from below, or notice any gaps between footbed and foot?

    PS A little overhang on the fleshy medial side of your midfoot/heel is OK, the vertical wall of the boot shell holds that in
    Last edited by gregL; 01-09-2020 at 10:18 AM.

  21. #1471
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregL View Post
    What do you mean by "extremely neutral?" In footbed terms, that usually means subtalar neutral, but that doesn't mean it matches your arch shape. What footbed is this?

    You need to be more specific about where it hurts - ball of foot, mid-arch, heel? They tend to have different causes.
    extremely neutral = stock, I never need to fuck with regular shoes/boots at all and never get any sort of foot pain in other shoes, from leather soled dress shoes to sneakers to hiking boots.

    I think the pain is centered in the arch. Thanks for the advice below, I will check it out.

  22. #1472
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    Mar 2006
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    Root, do you jog or play other sports where you run a lot?
    Sometimes, the stronger foot muscles you get from that make your feet really really not like ski boots.
    You gotta get some arch support in there though. At least a little bit. It really helps your skiing, if nothing else.
    Also, maybe ease up on the toe buckle if you can, or instep buckle if three piece.
    I learned to do that, and it helps.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  23. #1473
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    Mar 2006
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    There are also some easy arch exercises you can do for foot stretching/strengthening.

    1. Point foot downward with toes up
    2. Point toes down
    3. Curl foot back up with toes still pointed down
    4. Point toes upward
    5. Go to 1


    Stretch your calves too.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  24. #1474
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    Nov 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by RootSkier View Post
    Why do the bottoms of my feet hurt so fucking much? I have extremely neutral footbeds in all of my shoes (stock) and the same with my boots, but fuck, I want to murder someone because my soles hurt so bad. I guess eventually I get past it every year but it seems to take half the season, and it definitely cuts short some days early on (like today).

    Is this just a function of the wrong footbed, or am I a giant fucking pussy? I lean towards the latter.
    I'm not expert, but I did experience some pain yesterday of my soles after adding a spoiler to increase my forward lean as an experiment, and maybe resulting of pressure/over tightening of the ski boot on my upper two straps and power strap. How tight do you strap your boots? and have you tried loosening your boots a bit, and saw any improvement, or the same issues? Maybe too much forward lean?

    Unsure about the validity mechanics/logic of those questions, but I think worth asking yourself and experimenting to see if there is relief.

  25. #1475
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    Quote Originally Posted by mntlion View Post
    same questions as above.

    plus do you get the pain if you put the boots on inside and sit around? standing? Or only skiing?

    read and answer the 10 questions at the start of this thread please. will help us answer better
    So, intense pain on the bottom of my feet. Crippling, almost, on some days. Usually gets better as the season progresses. Boots are Lange RC130s that were fitted / molded / punched to me (with a custom footbed) by one of the four guys in Seattle that everyone goes to. Pain is mostly on the right (wider for me) foot... where most of my fitting problems are.

    1) BOW with the buckles tighter or looser?
    Better looser

    2) BOW with thinner or thicker socks?
    No difference

    3) BOW with any footbeds (custom, stock, none, etc)?
    Haven't tried no footbed... that's next.

    4) BOW skiing, standing, or feet un-weighted (hanging off a chair lift)?
    Better unweighted/on chair. Worse skiing. Once pain sets in from skiing, standing (but not in skis) doesn't seem to help.

    5) BOW thru out the day (and when does the pain start?)
    Starts early. Better towards end of day

    6) BOW on the first vs the third day?
    Better on third day

    7) BOW on harder or easier terrain?
    Better on easier

    8) BOW with the power straps (velcro straps) tighter or looser?
    Need to try

    9) BOW if you do any particular movements, or actions?
    Heavy snow - it's really bad. Gentle groomers - no problem. Soft powder - no problem.

    10) Any medical, health, or weight changes since you used them last?
    Nope

    After today, I have a slight hunch: Could skiing slightly backseat cause underfoot / sole pain? Today was a pretty manky day in Cascades (where I was at least), I know I was probably leaning back and I really felt it bad. If so, is there a way to slightly adjust the forward angle to see if that helps or do I just need a few dozen lessons?

    My foot doesn't feel like it's moving around in the boot at all. Heel is firm. I could wear these things all day around the house and be perfectly comfortable, buckled. But after a icy mogul or mank run, I'm toast for an hour ... until I can get them off or loosen them.

    Better yet... can I just come up to Banff and have you work on them?

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