the answer to "WTF is wrong with my boots?"

[EWG]

How old/many days on the liners?

most stock liners are mostly packed out and done after 50-100 days.

I have seen a few salomons become detached, but usually after 50-100 days

2 seasons plus this one. So maybe 110 days?

Problem is they are just starting to become comfortable on the toes on my left foot, which is about a 10 3/4. My right is a 9 1/2. I’m in 26.5.s.

Never occurred to me that they might be coming to end of life. I thought they were just getting broken in.

Edit: raises a question. If I ever replaced the liners I wonder if I could buy one thin intuition and one thick. Or do I have to buy them in pairs…

[J. Barron DeJong]

2 seasons plus this one. So maybe 110 days?

Problem is they are just starting to become comfortable on the toes on my left foot, which is about a 10 3/4. My right is a 9 1/2. I’m in 26.5.s.

Never occurred to me that they might be coming to end of life. I thought they were just getting broken in.

Edit: raises a question. If I ever replaced the liners I wonder if I could buy one thin intuition and one thick. Or do I have to buy them in pairs…

My Lange RX 130’s started doing that, and probably around a similar number of days. Not the whole liner, mind you, just in the heel pocket and up the calf a little.

[margotron]

Have a friend with a crazy high arch. Like nothing I’ve ever seen. Arch isn’t even the right word - the arch is high, but the top middle of the foot is super tall. Like the foot was supposed to be a 13 but scrunched to a size 10 length.

He has had terrible pain with every boot ever. Two Qs

1. What kind of mods should he pursue? Shops have thrown up their hands after punching and molding. They won’t cut plastic for him.

2. What new boot fits this shape? He went to Great Northern in whitefish and they had nothing that could work.

3. What liner thoughts do you have? I was thinking mold the fuck out of an intuition, over the arch, until it’s flat as a pancake

[herrgard]

The XTDs have a very tight heel and can bite like mad, but also give great heel hold. Keep grinding that boot board down if it feels like it is biting the top of your heel.

Grinding the heel cup works but has its challenges. Thin plastic that likes to melt.

Punching the heel works as well but will mess with the walk mode. Some times I have to punch on both sides of the heel to straighten out the walk mode catch.

I'll start with grinding the boot board, thanks! It looks somewhat thick so my hopes are shell work will not be needed. I agree on the area looking tricky to work on.

[gregL]

Have a friend with a crazy high arch. Like nothing I’ve ever seen. Arch isn’t even the right word - the arch is high, but the top middle of the foot is super tall. Like the foot was supposed to be a 13 but scrunched to a size 10 length.

He has had terrible pain with every boot ever. Two Qs

1. What kind of mods should he pursue? Shops have thrown up their hands after punching and molding. They won’t cut plastic for him.

2. What new boot fits this shape? He went to Great Northern in whitefish and they had nothing that could work.

3. What liner thoughts do you have? I was thinking mold the fuck out of an intuition, over the arch, until it’s flat as a pancake

You mean he has a crazy high instep, the arch is under his foot (probably tall also, but not necessarily).

It is very hard to analyze "outlier" problem cases without having the foot in front of you (an accurate digital scan can help, but still doesn't really show volume well), but here goes:

1. Find someone with a proven instep expansion tool/method and re-shape the instep with a bunch of localized heat. Not every bootfitter has a method for this. Grind the bootboard or cut off the front of the bootboard entirely (may need to grind the scaffo to remove contours, not possible in every boot). Chop vinyl and elastic out of the liner/remove material from the tongue. Go up a size.
2. No boot is designed to fit this shape, but a good starting point for an average volume foot is usually an Atomic Hawx Prime (2 piece shell) or Dalbello Panterra (3 piece shell).
3. Intuition wrap liner can certainly help, as you can thin the part over the instep by molding with foam over the instep (or just squashing the flaps in a vise).

[Cocximus]

I need some help figuring out my insoles.

I use superfeet redhot in my resort boots. At the start of every season I go through excruciating arch pain. In the first few days I have to take my bots off and put my feet in the snow. After a few days I only have to open my buckles and after about 10 days they are comfortable. I tried the blue superfeet but the boots felt loose with them.

For touring I used the blue insoles in the mercury with original liner. I had good control, fit and no arch pain. I replaced the liner with intuition MV. The heel and the instep are loose with the blue insoles I had in the boots with the original liner. I tried two insoles:
The red insoles feel like they take up the space and give me a good touring boot fit. I am a bit reluctant to use them in my touring boots due to my arches hurting so badly at the start of the season.
My orthopedic insoles from my hiking boots. They are thick and cushiony. They take up the instep space very comfortably, but the heel does not feel locked in. I wonder if this is due to them lacking a heel cup like the superfeet.
Next I will shim the blue insoles to lift them up a few mm.

Is there a difference in heel lift between the red, blue and green insoles?
Is there a difference in heel cup dimensions between the red, blue and green insoles?

Life is too short to try so many possible combos. Any suggestions?

[Ørion]

Did you mold them when new?

Boot and liner right out of the box.

Should add that I have a pair of travel dryers (mostly airflow, barely any heat and only in the toes) but have never used any of the stand-up heaters that someone else mentioned.

[gregL]

Life is too short to try so many possible combos. Any suggestions?

Have you tried having a footbed made specifically for your arch, rather than a computer-designed shape produced by Superfeet?

[herrgard]

Boot and liner right out of the box.

Should add that I have a pair of travel dryers (mostly airflow, barely any heat and only in the toes) but have never used any of the stand-up heaters that someone else mentioned.

I was thinking if it was a possibility they packed out enough in the heel in 15 days to get the same behaviour I get when molded, I always try to mash the heel as much back as possible.

I have not used any dryers on the mimics yet. Never had any problem with it on fulltilt/dalbello intuition, but those were much older than 15 days.

[Ørion]

I was thinking if it was a possibility they packed out enough in the heel in 15 days to get the same behaviour I get when molded, I always try to mash the heel as much back as possible.

I have not used any dryers on the mimics yet. Never had any problem with it on fulltilt/dalbello intuition, but those were much older than 15 days.

I realized my last post was a touch ambiguous. To clarify, both shell and liner got heat molded out of the box.

My current working theory is that it took about a dozen days in the boots to pack out the heels enough reveal a slight shape issue + introduce an infinitesimal amount of heel lift if I get sloppy (which definitely aggravates it).

The fascinating thing to me is that I added insole shims to both boots under the hypothesis that this was irritation caused by rubbing as the liners packed out and got a touch looser.

Almost entirely fixed the issue for my right but made it so painful for my left heel that I tapped out after taking 10 steps.

For now, I've been skiing with just a shim in my right boot and its been pretty manageable. Still puzzling out the solution though, sucking up a little volume helped for one foot but made it drastically worse on the other.

[XXX-er]

someone is asking me what boot for a WIDE azn foot ?

apparently the lbs has run into a brick wall

[tupp_]

Has anyone seen a pdf version of the Atomic Club Sport 130 manual? Just want to see if they include details on geo and hardware specs.

Thanks!

[gregL]

someone is asking me what boot for a WIDE azn foot ?

apparently the lbs has run into a brick wall

It depends on which Asian it's attached to. Like skinny Euro feet, there are all manner of wide Asian ones and all manner of Asian skiers. Rank beginner with a low pain tolerance and no history of ski boot use? Go up a size from the Brannock measurement in some huge volume boot like a Hawx Magna, Rossi Track or Nordica Cruise and call it good. Full on ripper Asian dude with high aspirations, go with a 97mm or 98mm shell a size down and find a bootfitter who can make it work, especially if their ankle/midfoot isn't also wide. And so on and so forth . . . said WIDE Asian is going to have his or her work cut out for them convincing the bootfitter it is worthwhile making that performance fit viable.

[gregL]

Has anyone seen a pdf version of the Atomic Club Sport 130 manual? Just want to see if they include details on geo and hardware specs.

Thanks!

Don't think I got a manual with mine - what do you want to know?

[tupp_]

Looking to reduce a small amount of fore-aft slop in the cuff. So (1) want to check specs for the hardware and try some replacements and (2) want to ensure my foreword lean is set up correctly.

Don't think I got a manual with mine - what do you want to know?

[gregL]

Looking to reduce a small amount of fore-aft slop in the cuff. So (1) want to check specs for the hardware and try some replacements and (2) want to ensure my foreword lean is set up correctly.

Well, it normally comes in the box with only the lower cuff screw in place (nominal 130 flex but already pretty stiff); you can drill and install the other screw that comes in the box to make it stiffer. Stock is with the thinner black shim in place between the scaffo and cuff @ 16 degrees, you can replace it with the thicker one in the box to get 18 degrees. Not sure about the fore/aft slop, mine are rock solid.

[Cocximus]

Have you tried having a footbed made specifically for your arch, rather than a computer-designed shape produced by Superfeet?

Not a ski specific one, no. The ones out of my hiking boots are custom made for my feet. I wish I could find an ski boot orthotic manufacturer that my benefits would cover.

[XXX-er]

It depends on which Asian it's attached to. Like skinny Euro feet, there are all manner of wide Asian ones and all manner of Asian skiers. Rank beginner with a low pain tolerance and no history of ski boot use? Go up a size from the Brannock measurement in some huge volume boot like a Hawx Magna, Rossi Track or Nordica Cruise and call it good. Full on ripper Asian dude with high aspirations, go with a 97mm or 98mm shell a size down and find a bootfitter who can make it work, especially if their ankle/midfoot isn't also wide. And so on and so forth . . . said WIDE Asian is going to have his or her work cut out for them convincing the bootfitter it is worthwhile making that performance fit viable.

the guy is a non-ripper so i will send on those recs, thanx

[herrgard]

I realized my last post was a touch ambiguous. To clarify, both shell and liner got heat molded out of the box.

My current working theory is that it took about a dozen days in the boots to pack out the heels enough reveal a slight shape issue + introduce an infinitesimal amount of heel lift if I get sloppy (which definitely aggravates it).

The fascinating thing to me is that I added insole shims to both boots under the hypothesis that this was irritation caused by rubbing as the liners packed out and got a touch looser.

Almost entirely fixed the issue for my right but made it so painful for my left heel that I tapped out after taking 10 steps.

For now, I've been skiing with just a shim in my right boot and its been pretty manageable. Still puzzling out the solution though, sucking up a little volume helped for one foot but made it drastically worse on the other.

Ah, then I follow! Maybe try padding the instep instead of sole.

[Ørion]

Ah, then I follow! Maybe try padding the instep instead of sole.

I...can't believe I didn't think of that. I ended my ski day early on Sunday due to the pain on my left heel and drove straight to the bootfitter where we spent some time puzzling it out. It turns out that the superior lateral process of my left calcaneus (if I'm not botching the technical terms, the top outside corner of the bony protrusion of my heel) is much more prominent than the mirrored location on my right heel.

After 15 days my liners packed out enough that I was starting to get some movement in my heels, banging these processes into the top of the heel cup of the shell. Inserting the shims in both boots sucked up enough space to prevent the heel lift (thus solving the movement problem) but also resulted in the left heel painfully pressed up against the boot's heel cup (thus the difference in how the shims affected each foot). The right heel, being slightly less prominent, didn't have this issue.

With that in mind, my bootfitter cut some padding in a large upside-down U shape that curls around my Achilles, above the superior calcaneus protrusion, and wraps down the outside edges of my heel. This seems to have solved or greatly reduced the problem in a similar fashion to your suggestion; "padding from above" to lock the heel back down.

I'm giving it until next weekend for the inflammation to settle down a bit before doing a proper full-day-of-skiing test but flexing my boots and walking around in the store was impressively promising once you accounted for the extreme sensitivity my abused heel was exhibiting. I don't think it was so bad that you could say I had a Haglund's Deformity (or pump bump) forming, and I definitely didn't have bursitis, but those probably wouldn't be out of the question if I don't nip this in the bud pretty quickly.

I will assuredly mention the idea of padding the instep too if my left heel needs more convincing to stay put. If that doesn't work, aftermarket liners might be in my future. Figuring out why this pain is happening clearly explains why new liners are a solution for many with similar issues.

[herrgard]

I...can't believe I didn't think of that. I ended my ski day early on Sunday due to the pain on my left heel and drove straight to the bootfitter where we spent some time puzzling it out. It turns out that the superior lateral process of my left calcaneus (if I'm not botching the technical terms, the top outside corner of the bony protrusion of my heel) is much more prominent than the mirrored location on my right heel.

After 15 days my liners packed out enough that I was starting to get some movement in my heels, banging these processes into the top of the heel cup of the shell. Inserting the shims in both boots sucked up enough space to prevent the heel lift (thus solving the movement problem) but also resulted in the left heel painfully pressed up against the boot's heel cup (thus the difference in how the shims affected each foot). The right heel, being slightly less prominent, didn't have this issue.

With that in mind, my bootfitter cut some padding in a large upside-down U shape that curls around my Achilles, above the superior calcaneus protrusion, and wraps down the outside edges of my heel. This seems to have solved or greatly reduced the problem in a similar fashion to your suggestion; "padding from above" to lock the heel back down.

I'm giving it until next weekend for the inflammation to settle down a bit before doing a proper full-day-of-skiing test but flexing my boots and walking around in the store was impressively promising once you accounted for the extreme sensitivity my abused heel was exhibiting. I don't think it was so bad that you could say I had a Haglund's Deformity (or pump bump) forming, and I definitely didn't have bursitis, but those probably wouldn't be out of the question if I don't nip this in the bud pretty quickly.

I will assuredly mention the idea of padding the instep too if my left heel needs more convincing to stay put. If that doesn't work, aftermarket liners might be in my future. Figuring out why this pain is happening clearly explains why new liners are a solution for many with similar issues.

Nice that you found a solution. I'll remember to try the achilles U-fix if my liners start to pack out too. My usual fix is to just throw a fulltilt wrap in there and it magically solves all fit problems. They are way too warm and stiff for good walking though so I hope the mimics last for some time.

[sweatypowderpig]

well we're in an ice age here in the Sierra and my haglund's are acting up.
1 year old Lange RX130s with big ol heel grinds to accomodate them. liners are freeride zip fits. custom Sidas footbeds (weighted)

the firm snow always seems to murder my feet and no matter how much I muck about with the buckle settings my ankles and heels inevitably shift around in the harsh snow.

I starting to think that I'm in too large of a shell and/or I need to switch to a different mfg with a tighter ankle/heel
just barely two fingers behind the heel. gonna pay a visit to my bootfitter on my days off.
but wanted to hear what the brain trust thought, particularly when it comes to different shells to try.

wide forefoot that tapers fairly gradually (particularly my left), low-med instep (a little higher on the left), small ankles, narrow heel.
i have some roxa 130s that i like, but the ankle is bit on the big side even with a powerwrap.

[EWG]

Here's a quick question:

I've brought this up before, but I'm having continued issues. My feet are different sizes: left 10 3/4, right 9.5. I'm in s/max 130s 26.5. Which is obviously small on my left foot. I punched out the toes so the length of that boot is ok, but damn the thing hurts all the time, even with 100 days or so on in it. I didn't even put a real insole in it because it's so tight and I'm trying for all the space possible. I'm just using the factory one, and my arch is unhappy with that. I need to try some of the thinnest Sole inserts or something.

I'm getting pressure on the top of my toes and the left side (small toe side) of my left foot right at the knuckle, and my foot is always asleep there when I take it out of the boot. Also, my large toe is slamming against my second toe and often digging the toenail into the toe, causing sharp, constant pain - and is also asleep on the outside of the large toe. Could it be that I need to widen the toe box a bit? That might keep the toes from smashing together, have more space for the outside of my foot, and maybe allow the toes to drop so there's less pressure on top (more room on top?)

I'm always hesitant to widen a boot cause you can't go back and it impacts control differently than length. But I'm just talking at the toe box.

GregL/MtnLion/any other gurus - will I regret getting that toe box punched? Would you start with both sides or just the outside of the foot?

[mntlion]

GregL/MtnLion/any other gurus - will I regret getting that toe box punched? Would you start with both sides or just the outside of the foot?

Try wider but go slow to make sure its working.

Also make sure your heel is all the way down and back in the boot first.

[breen]

Having some trouble with new hawx ultra 130 xtds that just have a quick heat mold (with toe cap) and an off the shelf footbed. They ski well both comfort and performance but touring im banging my big and 2nd toes off the front of the boot and having some cramping/burning through my foot in general. Have had similar problems with foot discomfort in the S/Max (just skiing, not walking) before a boot board grind and an aggressive mold with instep pads + removing the liner elastic - should I go a similar route? Maybe a length punch?